My bona fides: I got divorced a while back. We started out friendly and cooperative. It didn’t last.
That’s all we needed to hear: ugliness is inevitable. However civil things may begin, if she has an attitude like that at the outset, escalation cannot be avoided. You must strap on your legal armor immediately; best case, an immediate and fierce defensive approach will derail a slow ride to Drag-Out City, and worst case, if that’s where it ends up, you’re prepared.
Call a lawyer. Today.
Funny, I have always heard that expression about men. When a woman wants out, she may or may not have someone but a man never gives up his current relationship without one waiting in the wings.
I tend to agree with that as I have seen many a woman get out of a marriage because she wasn’t happy but rarely have I seen a man just leave his family to be alone.
Chirping in to say that, at least in my parents’ case, the lawyer told my mother not to leave and saved her from claims of abandonment and possibly forfeiting her alimony. From what I heard, the person that does the leaving usually gets the legal end of the short stick, especially where children are concerned.
I say that you can tell her you realize she is unhappy but you are not, so sadly, if she wants out, she will have to do the leaving. Then go back to your bedroom and be there for your kids. You can be a good person, a good father, and still do what is best for you. Don’t fall into the kind of thought pattern that makes you deny yourself what you’re entitled to.
I feel very bad for you and I am sorry.
I see all this advice to OMG GET A LAWYER. Before you do that, I think you need to sit down with your wife, suggest marriage counseling, see if your relationship can be saved. If not, find out what she wants as far as custody, support, assets etc.
The problem is that it seems everyone knows a horror story where the man or the woman gets totally screwed by the other. I personally can not see how you can love someone for so long and then be so intent on hurting them. It happens though, sadly.
I am going through my second divorce. I suck at marriage but I am great at divorce. I loved these men and at one time wanted to spend the rest of my life with them. My first had an affair and my second has some mental illnesses that can’t seem to be overcome so he can function in a “normal” relationship. I would do anything for either of them and me know they would do the same for me. It doesn’t have to be ugly but both parties have to agree that they love and respect one another and can put that in the front of any hard feelings or pettiness.
That being said, I personally don’t believe children should be in the “custody” of one parent or the other. A child needs both parents and both parents need the love of the child. My first husband and I jointly raised our son. My soon to be second ex husband and I are raising our daughter together. We live close to one another and she has a room and things in both places. We don’t have a strict schedule. Basically, he and I work it out weekly or daily whatever the case might be and whatever her needs happen to be. She knows someone will get her from school and take her “home” and care for her. She is very well adjusted and has had no problem with her parents splitting up because there was never any ugliness involved. Recently we contemplated giving it another try but that didn’t work out. However, we will continue to be friendly enough to have dinner a couple of times per month either with the kid or not. We will still share a movie every once in a while. Other potential relationships in our lives are honestly told that although the romantic part of the husband/wife relationship didn’t work out, we are in each other’s lives and will be for quite a long time. It takes a strong person to accept that and maybe no one will but this little person has to be our main concern and selfishly fighting over how many forks each one gets out of the divorce won’t help that one bit.
I really hope you two can work it out for your children if possible but if you find it really isn’t possible; an attorney is a necessary evil but if you two can be fair and communicate while remembering that you love each other on some level, everyone will get through this with fewer scars. This isn’t the time to start acting like strangers.
“She wants out.” <— This is the key. If she wants out there is nothing that you can do to change it. Therapy is still not a bad idea. The therapist can help you have a friendlier divorce as well as assist with how to deal with the kids. I hope that she is willing to do that at least.
I was devastated when my ex-wife and I started down that road. Ultimately, she wanted out. We don’t have kids which is an infinitely different situation but our divorce was very friendly. Two years later and we’re both happier, especially me. My ex is my best friend and I am six months into a wonderful relationship with an amazing woman.
It’ll be tough but you’ll get through this. Take it one step at a time and don’t relinquish any of your rights.
A rule of thumb is that kids need stability, so if all things are equal with respect to parenting ability, the kids stay in the house rather than move. That means that there is a good chance that the parent who stays in the house will have the kids until the matter goes to trial, and by that time that same parent will say that the interim custody should be made permanent for the sake of stability for the kids.
That is one reason why it is so very important to get to a lawyer asap if there are custody clouds on the horizon, before doing anything along the lines of moving out.
Very smart advice. I wish more divorcing couples had the maturity to recognize this.
I agree with get a lawyer to protect your interexts and the interests of the children.
I think you should tell the children together as a united front. Even if you are getting a divorce they should still see their parents as united when it comes to their children.
If she want out then she should move out. She should leave the children at least for now so they are not up-rooted at a time they really need a solid foundation.
I have been divorced twice and both times I am the one that wanted it.
With my first I asked him to separate first and wanted him to see if he could stay with his parents for a couple weeks. He would not so I left and took the kids with me. They were young, three and 11 months, so they don’t remember anything from back then. He did not want me to leave but did not fight me about it either. I felt since I am the one that wanted the divorce I should be the one that leaves.
I mostly just took the kids stuff and my clothes and some personal items I had before we were married.
We both hired lawyers. Mine quit on me when situation that came up that I wanted her opinion on. She basically told me I was stupid for even thinking of trying to help my ex. I got angry at her and started pressuring her on why it was has taken over a year and we do not even have any sort of settlement yet and she decided to no longer represent me.
My ex and I sat down and basically said what physical items we wanted and his lawyer drew up the paperwork.
I had no lawyer when we went to court.
In my second I wanted the divorce so I left. We had no children together just the children from my first marriage. He didn’t want the divorce either but he really had no choice. Again I took just the kids stuff and my personal stuff before the marriage. We did split up some more furniture and household items later on though. Basically we split everything in half.
I paid for the lawyer and all court costs. I want it so I paid for it.
The second break up was really no surprise to my children as they heard us fight. I am still friends with my ex and my daughter and son both see him probably more than they do their own father. He was a good guy it just was not meant to be.
Ultimately, keeping things more amicable means a less contentious divorce and a less contentious rest of your life. I’ve seen divorces get so nasty where the parties were racking up legal fees arguing over things like the a ten year sofa.
That being said, go see a lawyer. Don’t sign anything until you have read it and your lawyer has read it. This will work better for you if you know what both parties’ rights are.
Bitter experience here. GET A LAWYER NOW!!! DO NOT WAIT UNTIL AFTER SHE HAS HIRED ONE. DO NOT FIGHT A DEFENSIVE BATTLE. DO NOT TELL YOURSELF THAT SHE WILL BE FAIR. DO NOT BELIEVE THAT SHE WILL BE EQUITABLE.
A client paid $40,000 in legal fees over the issue of which parent keeps the kids’ two dogs. Some folks just plain like to fight.
It sounds like the two of you need to try to sit down and talk. Find out what it is that she wants.
Why do you think she is looking for you to leave the house?
What is she doing that isn’t nice?
If she were to post her side, what would it sound like?
Good luck, I have been there and it is a very difficult place to be.
A good divorce lawyer will steer you away from nonsense like that. Not that they don’t like to collect their fees, but honestly, divorce lawyers have more business than they can cope with.
Stranger
Here’s a question that came up in my mind based on what the OP is asking: what if he refuses to move out, but she won’t leave either? How is it decided who will leave if neither wants to and they co-own the house? Is it that someone finally cracks and gives in, or is there some way to determine empirically who should stay? Can she force him to leave or what?
My response to PaulEdwardWagemann.
My first of 5 responses to Belrix.
My response to Belrix’s continuing saga.
My response to Cazzle.
The first of many responses toDuffer, DudleyGarret and BMalion.
My response to spooje.
Rather than rewriting a ton of stuff, you may find some similar things in these threads that are similar to your situation, and most of my advice for them is still applicable to you. You will also see that there is a group of us Dopers who love to jump into marriage/divorce threads; me included. Everyone here is mostly going by their own experiences as (1) a divorced child, (2) a divorced parent, (3) a parent who saved their marriage or (4) a child of a saved marriage. I personally can lay claim to both (1) & (3). My following response is usually in the minority of doper responses, but nonetheless…a valid response.
I do advocate contacting a lawyer for advice before (read: if) SHE actually goes through with the divorce, and it’s not your job to do it for her. Your job is to improve on yourself, regardless of what she does. I pretty much spell it out in my links to the threads listed above. If you really want to save the marriage, you can increase the chances by improving on yourself and your habits. You can always change yourself, but you can’t change her…but she might change herself if she responds positively to your changes. Regardless, she will notice your changes, and may reconnect with you, or maybe she wont. At least your kids will notice and that may be even more important in further strengthening your relationship with them throughout these tough times.
I would hate to see you guys divorce unless you explore all alternatives…including improving on yourself…the links above will explain it further.
Another bit of advice:
Do Not Be Aggressive.
Do Not Be Passive.
Do Be Assertive.
The court can force a sale after which the parties split the profits.
Please do not move out of the house. Your children need you especially now. Besides, why should you move out of the house? Try not to think in traditional sterotypical gender roles. Men have as much right to be in a home as women do. Fathers have as much right to be with their children as mothers do.
And you have as much right to sleep upstairs as she does, by the way.
She must tell the children and you must be there to back her up and reassure them that you love them and want to be with them. Let them know that you will never disappear from their lives and mean it!
Never ever say anything critical about their mother. Let your wife know that you will not be criticizing her and ask her to do the same for you.
Let your lawyers do all of the “fighting.”
Remember that you serve as a model of marriage for your children. Should they think that marriage is about coldness? Talk with your wife about showing (faking?) some warmth and friendship for the sake of your children. They are at ages where they soak everything up very quickly.
You will survive this. You may need to get in touch with some of your own value and strength. I think you are going to come out ahead in this. Leave some of the burden on your lawyer’s shoulders. Cut yourself some slack. You are among friends.
To the posters who suggested therapy to save the marriage - it was stated in the OP that they had already been going to counseling and that his wife said it wasn’t helping, and she was giving up. Otherwise I’d fully be in favor of that. I agree with others that he should consult a lawyer quietly to get an idea of what may need to be done, then ask his wife exactly what she wants. (I also personally think that it’s not fair that he has to sleep elsewhere while she gets their bed, when she’s the one that’s causing the trouble and wants to leave.) My perhaps-uncharitable guess, but apparently a not uncommon one in this thread, is that she wants him to pack up and leave - and she may well think that if she’s not openly driving him out, she might have more of a case for the house and kids if he “leaves” them.
solkoe, I sympathize with your not wanting to dissolve the marriage, but she may already be “gone” from it in the most important ways. You need to do what’s best for yourself, and protect your children’s interests as well.
Therapy to save the marriage? Forget it.
Counciling to better deal with the separation and divorce? Good thing.
I don’t get this bit:
Why would that be? She’s calling his bluff? She wants to work on her story before she tells her parents and his? She’s gay, as some have speculated, and wants to drop both bombs at once and isn’t ready yet?