The thing is (and this can be tied to what I just said in my last post and the general discussion about this–at large), sometimes when a detective breadcrumbs, the scum can PICK UP ON IT…and then, oop, they know who the detective is! : p
So breadcrumbing is typically done as subtly as possible. I’ve seen a few games where the detective breadcrumbs about being the detective and the results they got, and the scum picked up on it straight away.
I don’t think it’s “wrong” at all. It appears to be different based upon a trend of cops dying early when leaving peeks since there were not too many fakepeeks being left. The natural and logical response to counter that is either:
We chose 1 while they chose 2.
It is indeed interesting though.
I disagree with this to some extent. I think it depends on how vehemently one player is defending another. And I don’t think it matters what alignment you are. Town doesn’t know they are defending town (presumably, unless there is a cop involved) and they could easily be defending scum. When one player is defending another, I try to determine if what they are using for a defense is something that can be gleaned from the thread or if it’s information that only that player could have (whether because they are scum or a cop). Again, this is kind of a null tell on the surface.
Oh for sure. I get what you’re saying entirely, and I’m hoping I’m not coming off as “what the hell why do they do that” or anything like that.
If a cop breadcrumbs and nobody else is doing it, well they are the easy target to be killed. And you can’t keep doing the same thing over and over when that’s the result.
There’s a player on our forum named “duckburg” that doesn’t leave his peeks. And he absolutely crushes when he’s seer since he doesn’t leave them and the wolves/mafia look elsewhere. Every once in a while he gets killed before claiming and drives us insane though haha.
I think I understand the crux of this misunderstanding, finally.
The “Other Boarders” (heh, TM), are used to many people (Town) breadcrumbing…pretending to be the detective and trying to do (fake) breadcrumbing, so that the scum think they’re the detective…
…and they can’t understand why nobody in our games (other than the REAL Detective) ever breadcrumbs.
And that is correct. Nobody in our (SDMB/Giraffe/Idle) games usually tries to subtly breadcrumb BUT the real detective.
I can see the fake breadcrumbing (by people who are Town but not the Detective) having pros and cons. Pros is, well, yeah, scum would have trouble figuring out who it is–even if they pick up on the subtle clues.
But wouldn’t a con be that TOWN would be confused at who the real Detective is as well? Not to mention a scum could try it as well…and then, when/if we have multiple claims at being the Detective, there’d be a problem.
Krayz
dood
Don’t make posts like this. I want you to be a villager.
Ok. So if cops here DO leave breadcrumbs (or in pogspeak, their peeks), it makes even less sense for vanilla villagers to not leave seer cover. 
I am A Confuse.
My verbage may have not been as clear as I intended.
If a player is defending a principal it is one thing but if they seem to be too supportive it smells funny. And someone will call you on it
IAWTC. I know my alignment, but not my role. If I were a Cop, targeting someone else would give me information about my role AND their alignment and/or role.
Heh. Meanwhile, I find myself agreeing with you way too much so far this game. This concerns me. 
Okay. I think I’m caught up with the thread–I had to leave again before finishing it and I’m not sure if I read everything that happened in the intervening hour. I don’t think this point got brought up in the fakepeek discussion, so I’m going to bring it up now.
The goal of a good VANILLA townie is to get nightkilled. In a game where everyone has a power, and we don’t necessarily know yet what that power is (and might never know until we die), fakepeeking may have major drawbacks. Truth is, nobody in the Town (except maybe save one, depending on what our one N0 action was) knows how much of a negative effect their death would have on the Town as a whole, at least not right now. So trying to draw a NK right now is really risky. What if you’re the Doc? What if you’re the Cop, and you weren’t the one whose N0 action went through, so you don’t even know it yet? I think it’s probably best that we don’t start fakepeeking.
Also, and this is a tangential issue, but as the game goes on, doesn’t fakepeeking allow the Scum to find the real Cop more easily than if he just stays silent and lets his voting record speak for itself? Eventually, fakepeekers have to start accidentally saying that Scum are Town. Every time someone does that, the Scum know that person is not the real Cop.
I reallllly want to jump into this conversation about the general strategy and game-theoretic perspective and how stuff evolved on the different boards; I find it super-interesting as well. I will refrain moderatorially, however. 
<snipped>
probably a natural evolution of our lynch liars kind of viewpoint as opposed to be considered a viable strategy.
If this is true, I’m going to be very put out. I signed up for this game more for the mystery than for the mafia. I like puzzles, but if its a purposefully obfuscated one such that it becomes frustratingly impossible, I will not be happy.
While I agree that it is important to know what abilities each person has, I fail to see how targeting oneself achieves this goal. In my view the best way to figure out what I am is to target someone that no one else is targeting.
Meh, it doesn’t really matter since N0 had only one action anyway. MykBot can’t target himself on N1 anyway.
I disagree. I think this is terrible. Well, not so much terrible right now but that’s mainly because we only had one night action last night and nothing visible happened.
Anyway, what NAF proposes here is a bad idea because it is a recipe for publicly outing roles whose effects are visible at Dawn (e.g., Vigilante). I suppose we could imagine that a Vig {or someone who thinks he is a Vig} might lie about who they targeted, but that leads us to (1) people guessing whether or not they are a Vig and (2) people lying.
At this point I will agree with NAF that there isn’t a downside, but there is NO upside at this point either. We have 36 non-actions. That’s a lot of nothing. So while not detrimental, a mass “I targeted X” is lots of useless information.
Furthermore, going into the future, I think a mass target claim lacks sufficient upside to support it. A mass target claim will help determine who has what power, but does it do so beyond what individuals can do on their own? To some degree yes (people will know if multiple people targeted the same target that had a visible effect.) But I think this ‘advantage’ is slim to none. In any case, multiple nights of information should reveal to those who have visible effect whether they caused them or not.
I don’t know about you, but I’m not expecting any claims for quite some time.
Some players do that here too, though not quite as explicitly. I’ve long held that determining Town actions is much easier than finding Scum actions since Scum are actively avoiding anything that looks scummy. On this board culture there is a strong “Don’t ever say scum wouldn’t do that, because scum would do that” which makes me want to bash my face into a wall.
DisneyWorld Time!
I will state here that public knowledge of who has what power is not nearly as useful as private knowledge of powers. In other words, I think it is superior if a Town Power figures out his power on his own in a private manner.
Public declarations are more likely to yield public outing of a Town Power, which is far less useful than private discovery.
Put another way, if we were in the situation where public knowledge of a Town Power was superior, the Town Power could, you know, claim.
On this point, I’m on your side, but WHA?
In the quoted section you are using jargon and implied strategies without explanation. I sort of kind of follow, but not really. In my estimation, you are saying that NAF’s target claims will prevent the cop from lying to us, which is culturally unheard of here.
Well, that’s kind of Idle’s point right?
We have NAF who has proposed a terrible idea. What you are saying is that this terrible idea makes NAF scum. Why is that so? Do you honestly believe that a scummy NAF would both think (1)“Hey here’s a terrible idea for Town to do” and (2) “I’ll suggest it and since I’m so smart and clever and everyone else is an idiot they’ll do it. No questions asked.”
Or do you think it more likely that NAF actually thought his idea was a good one and therefore proposed it? Which would be the move both a Townie NAF and a Scum NAF would make.
In other words, for NAF to be scum under your reasoning you need to believe that NAF really thought his idea was BAD and suggested it anyway. Really? You really think a scummy NAF would do that?
Idle’s point is an extension that by jumping on this weak case, you are being an opportunist, which around here, we find scummy.
By the way, our early history is littered with dead Townies mislynched for “Bad Ideas.”
The one other point I’ll make about NAF is that it is possible (though not probable) that NAF purposefully suggested a Bad Idea because he knows my views on this particular situation. He knows that I have his number. I know that he knows that I have his number. I can see NAF taking such a stance specifically for me.
(Oh that sounds terrible – as if the entire NAF universe orbits around me).
This strategy has been rejected on this board. That isn’t to say that it isn’t valid, only that it was suggested long ago and abandoned (I think the guy who suggested it got lynched for bringing it up, but that was early in our history.) Thinking about it now, I see the utility.
I don’t like this at all. Why are you so concerned about looking Townie? Vote when you want to, but this type of calculation makes me want you dead.
And yes, we do have a different dynamic on this board. Not that I don’t appreciate the idea of voting earlier. There are a few who are infamous for being late to comment and vote. Drives me nuts, but there you go.
The Day seriously ends tomorrow?
Ugh.
vote TimeLady
** Note: The new version of Safari opens Tabs in a different way than I’m used to. I’m fairly certain that these quotes and responses are no longer in chronological order. Tough. Also, much of this stuff has been hashed out already, but I’m not going back and editing because I’m lazy.
Alright I’m in finally. I’m reading through right now but have a quick question, are you dope guys purposely bolding all the names of players you reference? I keep thinking you’re voting eachother by bolding (which is standard way of casting on the other board).
Also I just spent 5 minutes looking for a multi-quote button that I couldn’t find and now I notice it because I wasn’t logged in before 
A couple things though if they haven’t been pointed out past page 3:
The OP states that there was one night zero action, just one. I doubt that this was done by random so there’s likely some sort of really strong PR out there (which hopefully isn’t a wolf). In any case it doesn’t look like the n0 action was a vigilante, because no one is dead yet. There was also roles in the 2p2 game like poisoner, so if someone has been afflicted and hasn’t claimed itt they probably aren’t a villager imo.
Agreed. Plus, we tend to look at breadcrumbs in conjunction with a claim (which isn’t always useful since breadcrumbs can be faked (and it all comes full circle!)). My guess is that on the other board, the breadcrumbs aren’t regarded in terms of claims but only as a way to draw a Night kill and allow the real cop to leave breadcrumbs as well. Then, if the real cop is killed, town can go back to look at that particular player’s breadcrumbs.
It’s an interesting way to play but I don’t think it should be done in an all-power game.
Plus, if you are dense like me, breadcrumbs are a complete waste of time because I’ll never find them or leave any that would be useful.
When this game has concluded maybe we could creat a "crossover’ thread where “other boarders” could share the different game mechanics?
Thisis a short Day by this boards standards and the game is afoot
I’d also imagine there’s some sort of mechanism in place where you can’t target yourself. I only read the mod posts from the 2p2 game but if any of the poggers can confirm/deny that would be appreciated. TL (?) says that seers could peek themselves, not sure about other roles though.
Going back a few pages.
You can’t, but that’s not the point. You still have information that you would not have if you had just targeted yourself, and at some point it might come in useful. It sure won’t be useful if you don’t have it at all.
(Off-tangent curiosity: did you get promptly killed? A “good people” answer to that question would scream “DOC HERE” to a scum me almost as easily as if you had been called one outright.)
Anyway, the roleblocker in this hypothetical example could BE scum.
That one makes sense.
It isn’t if you’re trying to figure out what’s in people’s heads.
MODERATOR NOTE
As indicated in the OP and in each PM (:)), players can target themselves. You cannot target yourself on two consecutive nights, however, just as you cannot target any other particular player on two consecutive nights.
There’s just a plethora of very good players on the other board, and every wolf team in every game spends the first few days trying to find the seer. If you’re the seer and you know you’re going to be actively hunted, it’s pretty hard to covertly leave your peeks (breakcrumbs?) for the village to see when you die, because leaving those breadcrumbs will ultimately get you killed in the first place.
FPS (fancy play syndrome) is a bigger part of the culture over there, so a weak villager may have the urge to leave fake breadcrumbs to confuse the wolves and possibly get themselves nightkilled instead of the real seer. Now since they’re all FPS’ing bastards, maybe wolves leave fake breadcrumbs as well so other villagers will think they are weak villagers.
I think that’s a pretty accurate analysis of the difference.
As for your negative, it does make things a bit more complicated I assume (again as I have never played on a forum other than it) though you also missed an important positive:
The ability to clear people who otherwise wouldn’t have been.
As for the red portion: When this happens, the play is typically to “lynch outside the claims and let the wolves resolve it”.
So if:
So then the normal play is to Lynch player D or E, and then at night the mafia will kill the true Cop.
Basically, with the Other Board Method, the cops results are known and confirmed (with Godfather exceptions) upon the death of the Cop.
With our method, we can usually have the Cop claim, and perhaps even live a little while longer. Without counter-claims and with doc protection, he can continue to live. Once the confirmed pool is large enough, with investigatees and masons, etc, the Scum are often in a bind forced to either Doc hunt or kill confirmed Townies.
Perhaps a big difference is that we generally have much smaller games. In our games, it is very uncommon to have more than 1 of any role. This prevents Scum from claiming these roles, as a counterclaim will out them.