The phrase “Bill of Rights” isn’t in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights either. So what?
Oh, yeah, the Jerry & Pat Show, two of my favorite comedians. 
Wolfstu – Please spare us both your PolySci 101 essay and your preening Northern superiority.
Canada had a nice cermony and we appreciate the sentiment of its leaders.
Americans are traditionally a religous people, so we had a religious ceremony, with leaders of many religious faiths present. GWB asked Graham to speak because he is a man much admired and respected by Americans, including many of other faiths. Lord knows, we don’t have any use right now for a figure who can inspire the populace to integrity, loyalty, optimism and courage.
Well, I guess some of you can piss and moan about whatever you want. But personally, I’ve got better things to wring my hands over right now - like the thousands of grieving folks in NYC, and the concern over a possible war.
But I guess that’s just me. :rolleyes:
I’m extremely tired of it, and I’ll tell you why: It’s based on exclusivist assumptions. Saying that a ‘non-denominational’ or even ‘inter-faith’ Day of Prayer is exclusivism dressed up in all the trappings of tolerance. It assumes the group you are talking to is composed enitrely of people who worship in some religion. The fact that that assumption is false is simply unknown to most of the people in on it, either proclaiming or practicing. It’s the most pervasive kind of exclusivism: Implicit exclusivism. Exclusivisim based on unquestioned, indeed, unknown, assumptions. The kind that is nearly impossible to fight. The kind that suffocates the excluded the most simply because most people think it is perfectly inclusive. All of your efforts are wasted because you can’t get to the heart of the matter: Implicit assumptions are almost impossible to challenge.
It’s draining. I wish I could just shake it off as another harmless Theist thing, but it gets to me. The blatant, unchallangeable ignorance is causing my stomach to churn. I hope I don’t get an ulcer. I’m too drained to feel angry, and that’s the worst part.
You know, Derleth; you’re reading WAY too much into people’s actions.
First off: Whether I am an Atheist, Pagan, Wiccan, IPU Worshipper, or not has exactly ZERO to do with the religious faith or lack thereof for another person.
Next: Please read my posting above regarding the two words used in the day’s designation.
Next: Nobody forced you to participate, did they now? I mean, July 4th is a national holiday and there hasn’t been a single day I’ve been forced to participate in any of the hoopla. This isn’t a holiday; it’s merely a specific day designated by the country’s president to show the population that he, and the country’s populace, care about the recent tragedy.
Next: I read the notice and read it again and then one more time. Was it reading #4 for you that showed you the thing said, “YOU HEATHENS BETTER WORSHIP AND WORSHIP GOD TOO WHILE YOU’RE ABOUT IT” in great big bold letters?
Lastly: “Non-denominational” and “inter-faith” apply to the faith groups participating. “Remembrance” applies to the non-faith groups participating.
Didn’t think so.
Now find a rational soap box, please.
“Non-denominational” is also, almost always, a code word for “Protestant.”
It’s like when Elwood Blues asked the waitress what kind of music they play at her bar, and she answers, “Oh, both kinds. Country and western!” It only sounds “all-inclusive” to those included.
First of all he didn’t say who you had to pray to.
As my wife said the other day, a prayer is a wish, and no matter what religion you are, you can always have a wish for the best for someone. Even atheists can do that.
Erek
Yeah I always find it so obnoxious when the storm troopers come into my house on Memorial Day when I don’t remember enough.
Erek
:rolleyes:
Its threads like this that make me glad I’m not a liberal. I dont have to back up weak and pointless arguments at the worst times possible. When I first starting reading this I couldnt believe you people were serious. Apperently you are. I think I’m going to get an ulcer because people like this exist in this country. All the good arguments have been posted previously, so there is no need for me to say them again. Thank you, I feel even worse.
dead0man
So true. Thiests just can’t seem to comprehend how a day of prayer could be exclusionary. But don’t be too hard on them, it is the nature of Theists to have a distorted view of reality. Otherwise they wouldn’t be Thiests.
It’s not just a day of prayer. Read Monty’s posts again. It’s a day of Prayer and Rememberance. Prayer - for the theists (of all religions) and Rememberence - for the atheists. Who, pray tell, is being excluded?
Duck Duck Goose said:
I sure wish that maybe just once, like on this particular occasion, when maybe there are more important things on America’s plate to worry about, the religionists could quit getting their panties in a bunch about people who want to keep church and state separate.
I dunno. You’re a smart enough man to understand the psychological crutch prayer can provide, the solace it can offer.
I look at “the National day of prayer” thing as a “Smoke 'em if you got 'em” sort of suggestion.
Of course jerks on both sides of SOCAS make it an issue, but it shouldn’t be.
I am not a Christian, Jew, or Muslim. Yesterday at noon, I gathered with my family, and we took a it to do what I at least find spiritual. I took me out of my office a bit longer than my proper lunch time, but no one questioned me about the time I took. My boss said to me directly and to the rest of the department before noon that if we needed more time to get to a service or such to take it. He knows that I am not part of any established religion. Only one person asked why I was not at the prayer service held there, but I told him that is not how I pray and he dropped the subject.
I was irked by the president ordering prayer, but as I was free to do what I felt is prayer without hassle, I soon became thankful that I was given the time to do so.
Scylla said:
Exactly. That’s why you didn’t see me starting a thread on this topic. Is it unconstitutional? IMO, yes. Am I going to make an issue out of it this week? No.
Which is why it pissed me off that much more to see John Kass (mentioned earlier) doing exactly that – using this tragedy to try to score political points by slamming SOCAS proponents. And also why I felt the need to point out that DDG seemed to be doing the same thing.
I’m just glad that we’ve finally gotten back to what it traditioanally means to be an American by concentrating on what separates us rather than what brings us together.
I am trying to be rational here, but I think there’s a point in this. I DO worry about whether this event will be used as an excuse to further other people’s agendas, and it HAS happened. Granted, it’s been mostly idiots who have done this so far, but I think it’s a reasonable fear. I knew for a fact that my daughter’s public grade school planned to participate in the national mourning service, and I wasn’t too terribly concerned, until a very religious friend of mine told me it was to be a prayer service. I don’t actually object to my daughter saying a prayer, I was just afraid it was going to be required. So I asked the principal, who told me that there would be a moment of silence and that if the children themselves chose to use that moment to pray, they may, but it would not be suggested to them – they would be asked to take that moment to think of all the people who have died, and all the people who are trying to help.
As for “nitpicking” when we “have bigger things to worry about” that’s kind of bullshit, if you ask me (not that you did). I very much felt stupid shaving my armpits this morning, because in the grand scheme of things, it’s trivial. But <shrug> there it is. We NEED to do what comes normally. For some, what comes normally is thinking about the smallest possible implications of a tragedy, whether or not they in fact exist.
dead0man wrote:
Um … you do realize, don’t you, that “atheist” does not mean the same thing as “liberal”?
Yeah! Think of all those people who died defending the rights of Americans! How dare any of you Americans actually go and stand up for those rights! :rolleyes:
According to Wolfstu’s profile, he’s located at the “D of C,” which I take to be the District of Columbia.