By the way, Johnny Sack’s character name is actually Johnny Sacramoni.
Quite true. I find the character names amazing, even though I know no Italian. Some of them sound almost sacred. Carmela’s maiden name is De Angelis, for example.
It would be amusing to see the surnames translated into English equivalents.
After all, how threatening is Soprano? Might as well be Castrati!
Why do you think that? As far as I can tell, Tony not only knows how Jackie Jr. died, he ordered the hit…you remember that whole conversation with Ralph where he pretty much told Ralph that Jackie Jr. needed to be taken out?
I do…but I think I also remember him specifically telling Ralphie NOT do to it. I need to rewatch that season, but I remember that Ralphie lied to Tony about Jackie Jr being killed in a drug deal and maybe Tony was suspicious, but wasn’t surprised that Jackie would get killed in this way.
Time to go rewatch.
I believe even Meadow knows Jackie Jr. wasn’t in a drug deal gone bad. Tony may not have the advantage of being able to see the hit in rerun like we can, but I’m satisfied that whatever curiosity he may have had about the details went into that bowling ball bag with Ralphie’s head.
Now, having said that, I do think it possible that the writing staff may wish to renew the bad blood over Jackie Jr’s hit for dramatic purposes. They’ve done similar things in the past with the gap between seasons being permitted to gloss over some details. (I mentioned earlier that there have been some boo-boos.) My daughter, who’s as faithful a viewer as we are, pointed out that the house Livia had been living in was supposedly sold in Season 1, but comes back in big fashion as a major plot point in later episodes (after the season break).
They (writers) may need to pretend the bad blood or unresolved details with Vito may be a good way to bump his character arc better, but I suspect they’ll get a new wrinkle. But hey! I’m ready for whatever it is!
Here’s a paraphrase of what Tony said (and what Tony was really saying, in parentheses)
Tony told Ralphie that it’s up to Ralphie what he wants to do with Jackie (it’s not up to Ralphie), if Ralphie doesn’t want to Jackie to die, Tony fully understands and it’s ok with it (Jackie better die), and that he’s sure that everybody else will understand too (if Jackie doesn’t die, Ralphie had better watch out for Chris and Furio, who will take it out on him). He also tells Ralphie that it’s not Ralphie’s fault that Jackie turned out the way he did (it’s Ralphie’s fault that Jackie turned out the way he did), and that he’s sure that Ralphie did the best he could and taught Jackie well (Ralphie did a crappy job with Jackie and didn’t teach him anything).
He then gives Ralphie the gun that he took from Jackie a couple of episodes earlier.
Beautifully done! And a prime example of why this series works so well. There are very few things that can be taken at face value. Ever.
To paraphrase Silvio doing Pacino: “Our true enemy has yet to reveal himself.”
That goes for friends, business partners, mates, children, nurses (remember Jackie Aprile’s “going away present” in the hospital), waiters, servants, and even psychiatrists!
Damn Tony and his subtext.
I stand corrected - but I do think that Vito’s hand in all that mess will come back in some way.
Maybe, and even if Tony did order Ralphie to arrange the killing of Jackie, Jr., that doesn’t mean that he can’t be shocked and dismayed if he finds out that Jackie didn’t die from some random drug deal, but was killed by Vito, acting under Ralph’s orders unbeknownst to Tony. And then, if he has to kill Vito to avenge the death of a man who was like a son to him, whose father was Tony’s best friend, mentor, and boss, well, surely nobody could blame him for doing that.
HBO2 has been replaying the entire series in order every weeknight at 8PM; this has seriously cut into my evening productivity. I’ve watched almost all of them since they were halfway through Season 1, and they’re nearing the end of Season 4. It’s great to watch it all in rapid succession like this–I see a lot that I didn’t see before.
On the new season–I read a report that they usually have a big season premiere party a week or so before the actual broadcast, but they’re not doing it this time because something BIG happens in the first episode that they don’t want to get out.
I think this season is going to see AJ start mobbing up.
The final episode of last season showed him and his friends throwing the illegal party and then muscling payment out of a guy.
I argued here with some other poster that the episode unequivocally showed that that’s the way they’re heading with AJ. The poster was being stubborn about seeing things my way. I had him whacked.
Are you sure about this? As I recall, the house was put up for sale after Tony puts Livia into the not-quite-so-active adult community, but I don’t recall it actually was sold though. One of Janice’s first acts upon returning from Seattle was pulling down the realtor sign out front if my memory serves. She’s mostly interested in any loot Pops left in the basement but has to settle for the record collection Livia gave to her Russian nurse.
Out of fear of being whacked, I’m siding with you on this. If it’s true that Chase has had this story arc in his mind from the start (which I do find extremely hard to agree with) I think the way that Robert Iler has played the character, the relatively few lines, the distance he maintains from everything, his fascination with “the life” as exhibited during his days with Devin, plus the “boys will be boys” episodes we’ve been exposed to, make it logical for him to get in deeper. After all, Jackie Jr. was the same kind of meek little kid when he first appeared. The flashback to when Big Pussy was Santa wearing a wire showed Chris and Jackie Jr. at about the same stage of evolution into real punks.
It’s in the cards for AJ to inherit what’s left of the family.
I just hope that if they decide Tony has to go that they wait until the last episode to do it. This series would DIE without Gandolfini. Period.
Not 100% sure, no. But I do recall after my daughter pointed out the flaw that we did rewatch those episodes. I think one can make a case that the language in that earliest episode may be the fault, since we don’t actually see or hear directly that the house sold. But (it’s been a while now) I do think it’s fairly clear in the early episode that it was all but a done deal.
If somebody else wants to rewatch those episodes and report back, I’m all ears.
That’s the obvious construction to put on the last couple of episodes of Season 5 – especially, the scene where one of Little Carmine’s lieutenants calls for open war on Johnny Sacks and Carmine replies, “No, that’s not how I want to handle it.” But, since Johnny is shortly arrested by the FBI, I wonder if that was because Little Carmine gave them a tip.
Especially as the series is really about two families – Tony Soprano’s family (Carmella, Meadow, AJ) and Tony Soprano’s “Family” (Pauli, Silvio, Christopher, etc.) – and he is the only link between them.
This is the one area I have a guess about.
The stage has been set for carmella to divorce Tony. He pretty much stopped it from happening before so she had to real chance to seperate. The next thing you know, she’s getting really interested in real estate. I think she’s going to find a way to be independent and self supporting, and dump Tony’s ass.
That’s too bad, I kind of like the Godfather version (the book, not the movie) where the wife just resigns herself to being a good wife, and praying for the soul of the Godfather.
In the commercials HBO has been airing Carmelo makes a comment about how Tony isn’t that bad in the scheme of the world. She seems to be done praying for his soul and wants to belly up to the bar.
If you’re up to raw guessing, pin a percentage probability that we’ll see any of these “missing, presumed alive” types in the coming season:
Furio
Svetlana
Tony B’s kids
Devin
Finn
Feech
Frank Sinatra, Jr.
David Lee Roth
Paulie’s Mom
Tony’s other sister
(your choice(s) for those I left out)
Will Tony hook up with Charmaine?
If so, what will Artie Bucco do?
Who will be Christopher’s next squeeze?
Will Angie Bonpensiero learn the truth about Pussy?
What will be Uncle Junior’s next big move?
Will Meadow get a job at the Bing?
My wife and I have both been waiting for the Russian from the “Pine Barrens” episode to show up again.
I think he’s going to take out everyone on the show.