This is 100% incorrect, as far as I understand the mechanics of boss-level monsters. Anything that is a boss (i.e., has no natural level) is always calculated as being three levels higher than the person attacking it for the purposes of things like Hit/Miss/Crit tables. So, for example, Marrowgar is considered to be 83 for a level 80, but 88 for a level 85. (The bone spikes, on the other hand, I think have a specific level associated with them, which would remain static.)
I am also reasonably sure that you’re wrong about fresh 85s doing the same damage/healing as an 80 in H-ICC25 gear. I don’t know anyone who was still wearing 277s by the time they hit 85: at most, one or two pieces that were tricky to replace. Quest gear, and especially gear out of even non-Heroic but high-level dungeons, should have started pushing out the 277 purples around level 83. By the time you’re at 85, even without touching the JP blues/epics, you should have gear that’s a solid improvement from that of even a Heroic ICC-25 raider with all BIS gear.
Hm… I don’t think he’s that far off with the damage. The ICC buff makes it a bit trickier for me to get accurate numbers, but I’m reasonably confident that my hunter in a mix of reg/heroic ICC25 gear was doing less damage in 85 quest gear + 333s than he was in ICC, even taking into account the buff.
Now of course the gear was “better”, but the combat ratings had changed so much that it barely made you “even”. If you stayed in your ICC25 stuff you’d be way under the hit cap, for example, and your crit rate would be crappy as well.
I’ll see if I can dig up some numbers.
ETA: To be clear I’m talking about comparing “geared” ICC players to “ungeared” Cata fresh 85s.
Ah, I see now. I should have figured out that was what **Quasi **meant–that’s what I get for trying to respond to posts I’m reading on my iPhone. Yeah, when I started playing it took me awhile to figure out that a “mob” was not a group of enemies but a single one. Honestly I think they should change that term, but given that it’s firmly entrenched in gamer-speak (and not just in WoW) I doubt it’s going to happen.
You may be correct for the boss level mechanics, but that only reinforces my point.
Someone at 85 wearing 333 gear will have higher absolute stats than someone at 80 wearing 277, certainly. But as I mentioned due to ratings decay the higher stats will end up being much lower actual percentages. All stats require 3.9 times more points at 85 to provide the same bonus compared to 80. The amount of stats on gear does not scale nearly that much. Remember, many classes were dealing with haste/crit caps at 80.
With the 30% buff people were doing 18-20k easily in ICC, so 15k without it wouldn’t be unreasonable for someone in raiding gear. Someone with 333 gear would not easily surpass that number.
I’m curious to know where else people would think that word comes from. Having been a MUD/MOO programmer back in the 90s, I can tell you that word was most definitely used in that context back then.
Right, but people wouldn’t be *wearing *ICC25 gear at 85, even as freshly dinged ones. Certainly, their ratings wouldn’t be as high (percentage-wise, versus raw numbers) as they were in expansion-ending gear, but the increase to damage/healing from baseline stats should have more than compensated.
This is of course based on my own experience, plus the experience of running dungeons/raids with other fresh 85s, while in a guild that had LK down before 4.0. It’s possible that YMMV depending on things like class, playstyle, etc.
I don’t think it’s ever been an official Blizzard term, so to speak–it’s just a standard MMO thing.
For sure, the percentages for things like Crit would be lower and Miss would be higher as a fresh 85 than at 80 with top-end gear. But, again, in my experience, overall DPS was still higher.
18-20k sounds high for me for 30% buff ICC, even in 277s, without looking at gimmick fights, just the top spec for each fight, just the top DPS in the world, etc. I feel like overall average (but good) DPS was lower than that. Unfortunately, I don’t have access to logs from here to check, and I’m not sure those old logs even exist anymore.
And that etymology actually disagrees with the one posted here. The article gives that it’s short for just mobile, not mobile object.
World of Logs parses still exist from back then for record holders (mostly healers now). Here’sseveralparsesfrom September, prior to the release of 4.0 which changed things up a bit. Looking at the dps for Rotface, which is pretty much a stand and burn fight, from all three parses, the highest dps was a warrior with 31684.7 (ah the joys of Shadowmourne), and the lowest was a hunter with 15258. The average was 19043, and the median was 18870.
Granted these are top guilds. I’ll admit that 18-20k is too high when talking about average raiders. 15k might be a more reasonable range. Even so, 15k dps in ICC translates to 11k unbuffed, which would be pretty good for starting out at 85.
I’d agree that 15k in ICC would be a reasonable middle-of-the-pack DPS for someone in 277s at the end of Wrath, so 10.5k outside of ICC. I’m *quite *sure I was pulling down more than that in my DPS *offspec *at the start of Cata when I first dinged 85.
Really, it’s kind of a moot debate without the logs to back it up, since we’re pretty much just having to go off what we remember.
That’s pretty in-line with my experience Enilno. I could do 15k-18k at the very end of ICC on my hunter (and Rotface was pretty much my perfect fight - short, not a ton of movement, no DPS gimmicks - I strongly remember hitting 20k ONE time, right before I stopped raiding 25s).
Upon dinging 85 I was around 8-9k in 5-mans, or basically just a touch below the end of ICC (after removing the ICC buff).
I also distinctly remember a guild group doing Agaloth on like Day 4 (as soon as we had enough 85s) and the enrage being an issue. That fight requires 10k per DPS, basically, to beat the enrage.
And anybody who uses the dungeon finder knows that there are plenty of players out there who even in epics at 85 seem to have trouble doing 7k…
ETA: On second thought, they might have been three-healing that Argaloth due to the early mana issues healers were having… that would put the DPS requirements up around ICC25 levels. Which matches SFG’s memory. All of this basically confirms the initial point - fresh, ungeared 85s are actually less likely to do well than ICC25-geared 80s because they aren’t doing massively more damage and they also don’t know the fights (or perhaps, raiding in general).
Yeah, anybody in 85 epics who can’t pull 7k is just bad, bad, bad.
Maybe this is just my elitism shining through and clouding my memory, but IME skilled players had higher DPS at 85–even right at 85–than they did at 80, discouting buffs and gimmick fights. IMO, there is no fucking excuse for a group of 85s to be unable to clear T10 content, even if they’re not wearing a stitch of purple.
Anyway, like I said, moot point–no way to figure it out for sure now.
I don’t disagree with this. However, the difference in DPS is marginal at best, not enough to let you just brute force through T10 bosses without paying heed to mechanics, which was essentially my original point that I had gotten side tracked from.
I’m just nitpicking now, but there was no real distinction between “mobile” and “mobile object” among MUD programmers. Even Richard Bartle uses them interchangeably.
That “mob” thing finally got us straightened out, but boy, was that confusing. So a “mob” is any moving object and sometimes a verb, but not necessarily a noun the way we normally understand it, right?
I get the fact that I have to loot all of the Valiant converted heroes one by one, but I am still not sure if they fade before you can get all the loot. And the time limit seems to begin when one begins the looting, because when I killed all of them with my Bladestorm, I stood back and those glowing little balls of light kept on glowing for a very long time.
I think I’m going to ask a game moderattor about that, as I will about having lost that Mt. Hyjal Quest about “doubt”-something. I just don’t understand how that is supposed to work now that I had to abandon it because I didn’t kill/assist kill all those enemies.
Now: A fishing question. A couple of nights ago, in Tol Barad, I went fishing among some flotsam and pulled out a sealed crate. Does this ONLY happen when you see flotsam, or can it happen when you’re just fishing in a pool ANYWHERE? I have gotten to where whenever I see a pool (flickering balls of light on the water), I stop there and fish.
I am still doing my fishing quest in Dal every day and a couple of times I got a “strong” pole or just a regular pole. They didn’t match up with my “Seth’s Pole” in strength, so I sold them. The lady who stands at the Dal fountain will never give me a stronger pole, will she? That will have to come from the K’aluaks?
Also I figured out why I wasn’t getting any rep with other races (especially, the Kals). I bought a tabard for Uldum, which gives me rep for Uldum, but nowhere else, apparently, so I vendored it.
I am honored by the Kals, but they haven’t offered me any quests yet, and I’m thinking that may come with the tournament on Saturdays only?
IF you do the fishing quest in SW, Ironforge, or Darnassus (can only do the quest in one city per day) you get a reward bag that can (rarely) contain a blue quality fishing pole…my various alts have collected a bone fishing pole and a jeweled fishing pole. Other rare rewards include a blue quality fishing hat (click it when equipped for a +75 fishing buff that lasts 10 minutes) and even at least one non-combat pet (I got a crab for one of my toons). Most of the time, the reward bag contains crap…a few silver, a fishing lure, and a worthless item…but once in a while, there’s a neat thing in there.
Oh, yeah. I wanted to add that I AM going to that lady’s fishing site. Just sometimes not finding the snaserws I need. And I have made the fishing tournament ONCE, but I was in that arctic place near Valiance Keep and there weren’t any pygmy suckerfish to catch. (none that I caught anyway, before I got discouraged and quit.) Also that old guy doesn’t announce the tournament in arctic areas - probably for that reason, right?
And Oak: I just remembered I DID get a bejeweled pole once, but again not as strong as the one I had. I tried to auction it - but no takers even 3 times, so I vendored it too.
I have the crab. it shows up whenever I’m fishing, but doesn’t go away till I dismiss it.
You only get the boxes out of the flotsam, as far as I know. You will always get a fish out of schools of fish, and they will be whatever type the school is (you can see what type if you hover your cursor over the school). If you just fish randomly you will get a combination of fish and trash (things like fishing line and bent hooks).
The Kalu’ak have three different daily quests. One is in Borean Tundra at Kaskala, one is in Dragonblight at Moa’ki Harbor, and one is in Howling Fjord at Kamagua.
It is possible that they require additional quests before you get the dailies available. If you go to those three locations, all on the Southern coast of Northrend, you should find the Kalu’ak and their quests.
And I’m *also *really nitpicking when I say that there’s a difference between “mob” being taken from MOBile or Mobile OBject, regardless of whether those terms were used interchangeably. It doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things, but it *is *different.
No, when WoW players talk about “a mob” or “mobs,” we’re using it as a normal noun, not a verb. It’s just that a mob in WoW is a singular noun that means a *single *hostile enemy NPC, and “mobs” refers to a group of them.
In normal English, “mob” is a *collective *noun, meaning that it refers to a group of people, while “mobs” would refer to several different groups.
The two words are spelled the same, but they have totally different meanings and origins. It just gets confusing because they look the same, and the standard English meaning sometimes looks like it would make sense in context.
WoW-speak: “I attacked a mob” = “I attacked a single hostile creature.”
English: “I attacked a mob” = “I attacked an entire group of people.”
I’m honestly not sure what’s causing the problems. The loot timer starts when the particular mob (singular creature :)) dies, not when you loot the first of a pack you’ve killed. As long as you’re not standing around and organizing your bags after you pick up each piece of vendor trash or whathaveyou, you should have plenty of time to click everything and collect what’s dropped before you move on to the next thing. I think you have at least a couple of minutes before the body despawns (disappears along with anything on it), and longer if there’s an item that’s at least Uncommon quality (green).
Sealed containers drop much more commonly out of pools that are floating debris of some kind than they do out of normal pools. Schools of actual fish will mostly give fish, sometimes give elemental water, and *very *rarely drop an item or lockbox.
Oh, okay, there’s something to change. When you’re looking for the best fishing pole, you don’t care about Strength, because you’re not fighting anything. You’d think that having more +Str would help you reel in fish better, wouldn’t you! What you actually want to look for, just for fishing poles, is ones that increase your Fishing skill. I’m pretty sure that the poles you sometimes get in your Fishing daily reward bag are all better than Seth’s in that regard.
There is no Kalu’ak tabard. The only way to get rep with them is to do all of their quests, and then do their dailies every day.
You can’t be honored with them if you haven’t done any quests yet–I think you start at Neutral. You’ve probably just finished all of the regular quests. To be sure, though, turn on your low-level quest tracking and fly to the Kalu’ak villages in Northrend. (For the tracking, click the magnifying glass icon on your minimap and check the box for low-level quests.)
The Frozen Sea? Yeah, you can’t “hear” the announcement there. The Pygmy Suckerfish attach themselves to other fish in Northrend–you generally have the best odds of catching them by fishing out of schools. If you’re just fishing in open water, the odds are much, much lower.
Yeah, when I started playing it took me awhile to figure out that a “mob” was not a group of enemies but a single one. Honestly I think they should change that term, but given that it’s firmly entrenched in gamer-speak (and not just in WoW) I doubt it’s going to happen.
What you actually want to look for, just for fishing poles, is ones that increase your Fishing skill. I’m pretty sure that the poles you sometimes get in your Fishing daily reward bag are all better than Seth’s in that regard.