Nice guys finish last

Assholes attract women who like assholes. What “nice guy” wants a woman who likes assholes?

If you are “nice”, date women who like “nice”. They’re out there.

As mentioned, be sure that you are not confusing “nice” with “boring”, “clingy”, or “lacking confidence”.

I used to think nice guys finish last, but as long as you are interesting (diversity of interests), independent, and confident in the fact that you are “nice”, then you should do just fine.

I used to cringe when I was called a “nice guy”, thinking that was the kiss of death. It’s only the kiss of death when “nice guy” is used as a cover for some other unattractive quality. It’s like saying a woman has a “great personality”. It’s only bad when the ONLY good thing someone can say about you is, “well… he’s nice”.

My current SO was telling me that she really likes the fact that I’m different in that I’m just “so good” (i.e., polite, considerate of others, honest, etc.)

Be nice, and be proud.

Nice guys don’t finish last. They don’t finish at all.
There are guys who go after and get what they want. Then there are other guys who cry and whine because the other guys get the girls, the good job, or whatever.
Besides, its always more fun to be Stifler than Jim.

Finish what?

Finish what??
I dunno. mack said it. Breakfast, maybe?
Peace,
mangeorge

This is a fundamentally pointless question without the definition of “nice.”

Oh sure, !ceQueen. Define “love” for me while you’re at it. :wink:
Many of the posters here have been trying to define “nice” in the context of the old saying. Why don’t you give it a try.
Peace,
mangeorge

Nice guys finish last in all areas where acting against nice is an advantage toward the goal. Business, some relationships, war, et cetera.

What do you women need confidence so much?

Excellent question. This could be a thread in itself.

I disagree. One doesn’t have to be a bastard in order to succeed in business. It can help sometimes – all too often, in fact – but it’s not necessary.

[qyote]What do you women need confidence so much?

[/quote]

Short anwer is because when someone lacks self-confidence, they are often looking for a cheerleader, not a partner: people wilth no self-confidence rely on their parrtner to give them pep talks and make them feel better about themselves. They dump the responsibility for their own emotional health into their partner’s lap. Proivnding someone with no cofidence with constant reassurance is not at all rewarding.

[Hijack]
Leo Durocher supposedly said “Nice guys finish last” when he was manager of the Brooklyn Dodgers in 1946. But he didn’t, what he actually said was “The nice guys are over there. In seventh place” in reference to the Giants’ dugout. This got shortened by the reporters to “The nice guys are all over there in last place” and eventually to “Nice guys finish last.”

Durocher kept up the message that he never said “Nice guys finish last” but eventually gave in and used it as the title of his autobiography.

[/Hijack]

But JThunder, that is my point.

Once again, it depends what is meant by “nice”. If by “nice” you mean “polite”, “courteous” and “pleasent”, then niceness is essential. Especially in service industries. If by “nice” you mean allowing a rival or competitor to succeed or not taking an advantage because you feel it is “unfair”, then you will fail.

All too often, people consider someone else a “bastard” because they take advantage of an opportunity that they themselves missed. A guy is not a jerk because he went over and asked out a girl while you were gazing longingly at her from afar. A boss is not a bastard because he asks you to do something.
I suspect that girls need confident guys because all girls, not matter how hot, are secretly self-conscious about everything. Thus, they need a guy to take over.

Women’s “power” comes from the belief that guys will do anything to sleep with them. By using the promise of possible nookie, a woman can get a sap to do whatever she wants. A confident “jerk” who doesn’t care one way or the other can disrupt this power, and thus the woman is left with all sorts of nagging doubts about “why doesn’t THIS guy like me?” The trick to this, however, is for the girl to believe that there is a “nice guy” under the borish exterior who is just waiting to come out.

MsSmith, put on your asbestos underwear…we’re goin’ to a Flame Fest!

When I was 22 a woman who I was dating–my first real relationship–dumped me after just a few weeks and started getting involved with several guys who were clearly the more jerk-like in our extended circle of friends. Months later she finally explained that she was “so sure” we would “end up” married. I hadn’t come on too strong or anything, it was just my good character that got her thinking along those lines.

What we might deduce from that is that women looking for short-term relationships look for men who are bad matches so they won’t fall in love with them and/or have to worry so much about hurting their feelings when they leave the relationship. This is something of a gender role reversal.

I’ll also buy the bit about jerk-like guys conveying ‘exitement and danger’ and that this turns women on, but women need to understand the problems this creates when they act on it as well as the contradictions. Women vigorously condemn male attitudes that lead to sexual harrassment, domestic abuse, rape, ‘objectification’ etc., and then they turn around and reward men with aggressive attitudes and punish men who respond to their complaints and respect their boundries. The predictable result is more and more jerks. Sexual harrassers are nothing if not self-confident.

I suspect that girls need confident guys because all girls, not matter how hot, are secretly self-conscious about everything. Thus, they need a guy to take over. (from MSmith)

Oh really?

I finished half of a flame over this, but realized there was no point. First of all, I’m new to this board, and a girl can’t go around flaming strangers…might get herself a bad image. Second, you’re probably saying such silly things with the hope of getting flamed.

So, I’ll finish with this: do you have any studies to back this up? Any proof at all? Your statement completely ignores the fact that within our preplaced genders, we are all individuals. Unique, sometimes odd, sometimes psycho, but all pretty different from each other. Statements like ‘all women are secretely self conscious about everything’ cannot possibly be true when you realize just how many women are out there, with different goals, different life styles, even different sexual ‘identities’…

Okay, sorry about that slight off topic rant.

As to nice guys finishing last? No.

In general people (regardless of gender) who lack self confidence (but are awfully nice) are going to have a much tougher time attracting other people and succeeding in life.

We might deduce this, if your sample size included more than one girl you dated years ago for a few weeks.

Yeah, that’s it. Finish…uh…getting her cookies. :eek:

I disagree about the self confidence issue, because self confidence has nothing to do with being nice. Not having self confidence is obviously a problem, but it is not a trait shared by most nice guys. It is just a stereotype. An actual nice guy would be a guy who has empathy and cares about other people. By this definition many self professed nice guys may not actually be so nice. They act in a way meant to show how nice they are, but they don’t really empathize or care about people. Self professed nice guys may finish last because they act “nice” selfishly, even at times when if they actually empathized and cared what someone else wanted they would act differently.

However, even a real nice guy is often at a disadvantage. Empathy is a very useful skill, but caring can be disastrous. when it comes to love, women tend to want someone different than them. Women often feel as though they should care about other people, and have anxiety about this. A guy who also cares about other people, and has the inevitable anxiety this causes, will only bring more anxiety into a girl’s life. A guy who either cannot empathize or just doesn’t care is attractive to women because they lessen the anxiety by both making caring seem less important, and at the same time making the woman’s current caring level seem much higher by comparison. Women like to feel as though they are really nice people, and the less nice their partner is the nicer they look.