No, Virginia, there isn't a Santa Claus

In My Humble Opinion
1

This article touches on something I’ve wrestled with in my mind for some time.

Now, the article is from atheistparents.org. Personally, I don’t want to categorize myself as an atheist. My beliefs really are independent of any conformed religion or movement. And, they don’t have anything to do with my feelings about the myth of Santa Claus.

I don’t really want to teach my little girl, who now is 16 months, that there’s a Santa Claus. That there’s an Easter bunny. A tooth fairy. Or, any type of mythical character.

The article in the link talks about some of the positives of growing up knowing the truth about these myths. But, my wife and everyone in my family and everyone else I know cannot understand this POV. My wife really wants the Baby Clucky to experience the magic of Santa Claus. I’m sure she’d feel robbed, as well, if she didn’t get to see Baby Clucky enjoying the Santa myth.

Me? I want to see my little girl’s amazement at the wonders of science, something I really didn’t appreciate growing up.

But, even more important to me, I’m not comfortable telling lies. And, dress them up all you want, that’s what they are. Just telling lies that lead to more lies as the little bugger asks legitimate questions.

Yes, there’s a Santa Claus. He’s magical and happy and brings lots of toys to all the boys and girls. Well, except to the Johnsons down the street, because they’re dirt poor, and, well, what? Santa doesn’t like underprivileged kids?

Of course, there’s another part of me that will get some enjoyment out of the wonderment my child shows over Santa and other mythical figures. I just doubt that my own amusement should be a factor.

The conflict in me, however, would be easier to settle if my wife and I were on the same page. I need to talk to my wife about this more in detail. Who knows? I might persuade her to move toward my view.

2

I’ve often wondered about this as well. I’m not married/a mom yet, but I feel the same way–I don’t want to tell lies. And what happens when the kid finds out he’s not real? Does the magic and fun of learning about him as a kid make up for the disillusionment later? Do they end up thinking “my parents lied to me”?

I myself was never taught that there was a Santa Claus, due interestingly enough to my parents’ religious beliefs when I was a child, which included the idea that the Santa part of Christmas (and, well, really, the whole holiday) was a ‘pagan’ tradition that real Christians shouldn’t celebrate. We never even had a tree until the last three or four years! My grandmother used to send us presents, though, so don’t feel too terribly sorry for me. (Oh, well, if you insist…)

We knew about Santa Claus, though, since he was in all the store windows and advertising and Christmas stories, etc. But I was probably, oh, seven or eight, before I knew who he was. So I have had the interesting choice of being able to enjoy the Santa Claus idea as fiction, knowing that it wasn’t any more true than Peter Rabbit or Riki Tiki Tavi.

Sometimes I miss having the experience of actually believing in Santa, and get mad at my parents for not allowing me that. But the thing is, that there are other places in life where a kid can get those feelings, of a benevolent power giving them love, acceptance, and even presents; and of adventure and magic, something outside of everyday experience. For the first kind of experience, there is family, parents, grandparents, and God if you are religious. For the second, there is real life, which is really quite an adventure, including science, as you say, and how people work, and God also for this category. In other words, I don’t actually think I missed out on anything by not being taught about Santa, except possibly the cultural aspect of it: “eveybody” believed in Santa Claus as a kid, and sometimes I feel weird that I don’t share that with the rest of N. American society. But by the same token, I never had to go through the disillusionment of finding out that Daddy was Santa Claus, or the stress of “if you’re not Good, you’re not getting any presents from Santa”. Oh, and along with the writer of that article, I also had an amazing imagination as a kid!

So in my humble opinion, I would say that you are probably better off not teaching your daughter that Santa exists.

At any rate you’ve got a couple of months until the next Christmas season rolls around, so you’ve got time to be thinking about it.

3

I’ve often wondered about this as well. I’m not married/a mom yet, but I feel the same way–I don’t want to tell lies. And what happens when the kid finds out he’s not real? Does the magic and fun of learning about him as a kid make up for the disillusionment later? Do they end up thinking “my parents lied to me”?

I myself was never taught that there was a Santa Claus, due interestingly enough to my parents’ religious beliefs when I was a child, which included the idea that the Santa part of Christmas (and, well, really, the whole holiday) was a ‘pagan’ tradition that real Christians shouldn’t celebrate. We never even had a tree until the last three or four years! My grandmother used to send us presents, though, so don’t feel too terribly sorry for me. (Unless you insist…)

We did end up knowing about Santa Claus, though, since he was in all the store windows and advertising and Christmas stories, etc. But I was probably, oh, seven or eight, before I knew who he was. So I have had the interesting choice of being able to enjoy the Santa Claus idea as fiction, knowing that it wasn’t any more true than Peter Rabbit or Riki Tiki Tavi.

Sometimes I miss having the experience of actually believing in Santa, and get mad at my parents for not allowing me that. But the thing is, that there are other places in life where a kid can get those feelings, of a benevolent power giving them love, acceptance, and even presents; and of adventure and magic, something outside of everyday experience. For the first kind of experience, there is family, parents, grandparents, and God if you are religious. For the second, there is real life, which is really quite an adventure, including science, as you say, and how people work, and God also for this category. In other words, I don’t actually think I missed out on anything by not being taught about Santa, except possibly the cultural aspect of it: “eveybody” believed in Santa Claus as a kid, and sometimes I feel weird that I don’t share that with the rest of N. American society. But by the same token, I never had to go through the disillusionment of finding out that Daddy was Santa Claus, or the stress of “if you’re not Good, you’re not getting any presents from Santa”. And yes, along with the writer of that article, I also had an amazing imagination as a kid!

So in my humble opinion, I would say that you are probably better off not teaching your daughter that Santa exists.

At any rate you’ve got a couple of months until the next Christmas season rolls around, so you’ve got time to be thinking about it.

4

I have spoken about this before - in December, I posted in the Pit following a news article about a teacher who told her class of young children that there’s no Santa. While I think it’s up to each parent to decide what’s best for their kids, I was outraged that this teacher took it upon herself to disillusion other people’s children. Quite an interesting debate developed, and I do see the point of those who think it is wrong, but I still want to encourage any children I may have to believe in Santa.

I feel that childhood is a time for innocence, when you’re protected from a lot of the bad things in the world. All too soon you grow up and have to face reality, but it’s nice to look back on your childhood as a time when you could believe in magic. The discovery that Santa didn’t exist wasn’t traumatic or shattering for me, and I’m left with the wonderful memories of lying in bed on Christmas Eve, listening for sleigh bells and dreaming of magic.

I guess I don’t have a huge moral issue with lying to children. I believe there are many things that they shouldn’t face until they are older. If a four year old asked me where babies come from, I wouldn’t tell them all about “the birds and the bees”. I would try and keep it accurate but leave out that most important detail - I know other parents are ok with their young children knowing the facts of life, but I’m not. To me, Santa falls into the same sort of catagory, and I think of it more as a game you play with your kids than a deception. It’s not malicious and it’s not harmful, it’s a lie to make the world a little more special for them.

I also remember that the legend of Santa taught me to think a great deal about the joy of giving to others and doing things for others without expecting anything in return (well, except cookies and milk). In Melbourne in the 80’s, there were a number of child murders and other disturbing things happening which made me very fearful, but Santa was an example of a good person to show the world wasn’t all bad. It didn’t matter that I found out the truth later - Santa filled that void when he was needed.

While I respect your right to raise your child any way you see fit, I would love to see you change your mind. Childhood is the only time when you can believe in magic - it seems sad to me to make children think like adults when their imaginations are still capable of creating so many more wonderful things.

5

GAAAH! Double post! I thought it might do that…tried to avoid it but to no avail I see. Also sorry it’s so long!

Mods, will you delete the first of the above posts? They are nearly identical but the second has a grammar change or two I think. Thanks v. much.

6

Yes, and the operative word here is “accurate”. Accurate, though within what they can handle. Whatever you tell them should be true, just perhaps not all the nitty-gritty details. Don’t let your precocious kindergartener read the SDMB, in other words. :eek:

But with Santa Claus, you are deliberately telling them something that is not true. In my opinion, there are ‘magical’ things in real life that can help a kid enjoy childhood without resorting to getting them to believe things that aren’t true.

As the author of the article points out, this is even different from telling your kids about God. If you believe in God, then you are telling them something you believe to be true, not something you know is false. Definite difference. If you are religious, “Jesus loves me” may be just as ‘magical’ as sleighbells, with the added benefit of honesty on the part of the parent. If Jesus is real, do you necessarily need Santa, who isn’t? For example. Although there are numerous parents who teach both, or neither, or one and not the other. As the saying goes, YMMV.

7

OK, last post in this thread for the night!

I do agree with you, cazzle , that that teacher had no business disabusing the kids of their belief in Santa Claus. Not her job, esp. w/out clearing it with the parents first, and esp. on a sensitive issue like that.

G’nite…off to terrorize (er, lurk in?) some other thread…

Nenya

8

ya… it’s pretty nasty lying to your kids, but really… i think that it’s such an important part of western culture that you are robbing them of so much more by not including them in the whole santa clause (myth) reality.

i feel the same way about banning kids from watching televsion. sure, you, parent of the eraly 90’s may say that it was ever so important preventing your kids from watching teenage mutant ninja turtles, but then when they grow up, they cannot engage in the nostalgic pop-culture discussions that play such a big part in common discourse.

of course, that is not to say that you should just go ahead and do what everyone else does; that’s extraordinarily ridiculous. but just remember that your child has one childhood, and while you don’t see any problem with denying them the culture of christmas (or whatever else you may choose), in 10-20 years time they may regret that you did this.

as a point of clarification, can you imagine a group of 18 year olds discussing their childhood in the year 2010:

bill: ahh… remember harry potter? that was so cool. i downloaded the first movie the yesterday. it was really funny, total early 00’s camp.

fred: i never read harry potter, or saw the movie. my parents wouldn’t let me.

jill: oh… that’s… crappy… hey, bill, remeber how in the first movie ron said… [etc]
y’see? things of cultural importance shouldn’t be dismissed lightly. i couldn’t imagine growing up without santa claus. if i had i’d feel like part of my childhood had been robbed.

of course, this is only my opinion. you are the one with a child, not me, and i have no right to tell you how to raise your child. i’m just saying: these sort of inconsequential things can have such an impact years later. memories are a powerful thing.

9

Interesting responses. gex gex, yes, she might be robbed culturally, some. That does register with me.

Anyhoo, I’m probably not going to fret too much about this until she gets a little older and can ask questions. My wife is intent on having me read “The Night Before Christmas” on every Christmas Eve, as her father did for her. I won’t take away that tradition.

When she does get old enough to ask questions that I can’t answer without piling on more lies, though, I’m going to readdress the issue with my wife. I’m not comfortable with making too much stuff up. And, I don’t believe in blowing off a curious child’s curiosities.

10

I was never taught to believe in Santa Claus, just because my mother always thought it was (her phrase) “kind of stupid”. And I don’t feel I missed out on anything because of it.

11

In college, I was sitting around with some friends, talking about how we found out that Santa wasn’t real. This might not have been the most representative sample, but all of them described feelings of betrayal and anger at the time. (My husband’s involved him hiding behind the Christmas tree to steal a glimpse of this wondrous man and instead seeing mom and dad lugging the presents in. He jumped up and screamed, “You lied to me!”) I realized I had no idea how I found out, so I asked my mom. Her response was that they never taught my sister and I that Santa was real, but told us about him more as a fairy tale and a nice ‘spirit of Christmas’ story. We still grew up getting presents under the tree, and going to sit on Santa’s lap, watching Christmas specials on TV, and so on. I don’t think I lost out on anything. I’ve always enjoyed fairy tales, mythological stories, and so on, and Santa was among them, but better yet, was one that we celebrated and ‘brought to life’ each year.

Plus if you deliberately tell them that Santa’s real, you need to figure out how and when to tell them that he isn’t real - assuming no one beats you to it, like some child at their school. One person at my workplace had managed to avoid that issue until his daughter was 10! By that point I’d really worry about trust difficulties cropping up.

12

Stories are terribly important for getting points across. Keep the stories when you drop the lies. “Yes, Clucklet, this gift is from Santa Claus. Santa Claus isn’t a real live person, he’s just a character we tell stories about. When we say something is from Santa Claus, we really mean that it’s a secret who it’s from. That’s so you can enjoy the present without having to think about giving one back.”

She will, of course, lose the valuable experience of Santa Claus disillusionment. It will be important for her to understand that many people do believe quite literally in figures who were invented as story characters, and that wisdom is gained when we understand the point in the story without thinking the story is real.

As for the wonder and astonishment, well, there’s plenty of that in the real world.

13

I remember how I found out about Santa Claus, et. al.

I lost a tooth, and for some reason I was sleeping on the floor that night in my sleeping bag. Apparently I was having trouble sleeping, because the tooth fairy came before I had gotten to sleep - but I pretended to be asleep, after all the tooth fairy might not leave anything! Then the tooth fairy kissed me.

The tooth fairy had beard stubble. :eek: :smiley:

I realized that all of the “gift givers” were really my Mom and Dad. And for my personal experience, it somehow made me feel more loved that Mom and Dad went to this trouble for me.

You might consider that your daughter is going to be too young to understand the subtleties between a good story and real life. Play it as a good story, and when she gets old enough to distinguish those subtleties, she should realize that Mom and Dad weren’t lying, just having fun.

After all, if you read her a fairy tale, that’s not lying, even if it isn’t real. And how are you going to explain giving money for teeth if not with the tooth fairy?