No Wonder "It's Taking Longer Than We Thought"

The BBQ Pit
21

Poly:

In looking to God for guidance, it is His own example that convicts me. I suppose the best way I can respond to those who insult me is to forgive them, and to remember that they really don’t understand that that is what they are doing.

David:

I tried, but I failed, to understand what you were trying to say when you said, “To you, [He] is your Father”. Maybe we just haven’t reached that point in our cyber-relationship where you can just go, “Okay, if you say He is your Father, then I will respect you enough to honor Him.” Maybe some day.

Anyway, feel free to use this page as the proof you will need in the future to knock down the urban legend currently spawning that I interpreted your comments in “Up the Butt” as calling me a liar. I never thought that for a moment. You can point to this post and go, “See? Lib said hizzownself that he never felt like he was being called a liar.” I’m not even going to bother looking it up to see if I used some hyperbole to make people think that. Maybe I made reference to something like “Do you think I’m lying?” or I might have listed lying in the context of possible ways to interpret my assertion.

Satan:

They really are just words, no, not even that. Just letters. No, just pixels. No, just photons. No, just … But there is an uncanny gestalt about whatever they are.

Scylla:

Very very steady advice, thanks.

Firefly:

That reminds me of when you said, “The less said about your understanding of math, the better.” :wink:

Andros:

I’ll try to be mindful that you mean no disrespect.

skelton4947:

And so it is with the Spirit. With faith, it is “there”. Without it, it “disappears”.

22

Andros:

See? Lib said hizzownself that he never felt like he was being called a liar.

Nyah nyah nyah!!

:wink:

23

Lib said to David (and sorry for butting in):

[quote]
Maybe we just haven’t reached that point in our cyber-relationship where you can just go, “Okay, if you say He is your Father, then I will respect you enough to honor Him.” Maybe some day.

[quote]
Lib, in what way do you want him/us to “honor” God? Especially if we don’t believe he exists (or not in the manner you believe him to)?

And having defined that, will you honor Allah, Ganesha, the Buddha, the Invisible Pink Unicorn, et al. in the same way?

Or will you stand up and say “I know the my Redeemer lives,” knowing that others will take offense?

-andros-
There is no god but God and Mohammad is his prophet.

24

Hey, don’t shoot the messenger, pal. I was trying to help out Polycarp. :slight_smile:

25

Incidentally, to take a slightly contrary position (that is so unlike me) I’m not sure it’s a good idea to think of everything here as just words on a screen – at least when you’re typing them (as opposed to being on the receiving end). A number of years ago, there was a local guy who thought this way. He said that everything was just words on a screen and, when he was online at the local BBS, he didn’t think of the people behind the words. He was a complete asshole on the BBSes. He cared not a whit for anybody else or their feelings because, to him, they didn’t exist.

Now, in person (at some local get-togethers), he seemed to be a nice enough guy. I thought that maybe after meeting some of the people behind the names, he’d get better. He didn’t. He still didn’t make the connection somehow.

Ignorance is Bliss.
Reality is Better.

26

Andros said:

Well, that’ll teach ya! :wink:

Incidentally, Lib, I, too, would like to know how you expect me/would like me to honor your god – especially given that I don’t think he even exists. This is a serious question, not some smart-ass remark (I would never do something like that… :rolleyes: ).

27

I, for one, would like to see more aggression and abuse of the ignorant on this MB. I think we should all be as acerbic as possible and then put little smiles at the end of each of our hateful little posts. They make everything nice and happy and A.O.K.

I’ll go first:

Libertarian, you know we have agreed on a great many things on this board and we share the same general political philosophy. You know I think you’ve got a great spirit, are very intelligent, well-mannered and witty, but goddamn it, stop it with this “Father” bullshit already!!! :slight_smile:

Hell is Other People.

28

Three cheers for POLYCARP.
I agree and have said that all before, though no one listens.

I applaud the attempt though. POLY for PREZ.

-N

29

Andros:

Absolutely. If you tell me that you worship the Pink Unicorn, then you will not ever catch me disparaging it. Come to think of it, I don’t believe I ever have.

Like I said, I know nothing about any “god”. I don’t worship a “god”. But you can honor Whom I do worship by giving Him the same respect you would give to me. If He does not exist, then neither do I.

Sake:

Hear! Hear!

Now, Sake. Stop abusing yerself. :slight_smile:

30

Sake is abusing himself? Wow, he sure can type fast for only using one hand.

Seriously, Lib, do you expect the words “God does not exist” to never leave my keyboard? Don’t you think that’s being a little touchy? I don’t expect you to avoid saying (repeatedly!) that God does exist.

31

I must say Poly, you make a very good point; however, there is a thread in this thread (?!) that I must disagree with.
As an objective person to the whole urban legend fiasco, I went back and reread the thread in great debates and I must say that you guys have something completely backwards. If you read it again you will see that it is liber who is blindly hostile to anyone questioning what he remembers. He is the first to act rudely because he feels he has been attacked. David, if anything, seemed incredulos and not mocking when he made his reply about false memory. I guess I must fall into David’s camp because I too have read many articles stating that it never happened, and I totally agree with his belief that it is simply a false memory.
I admit I didn’t read the whole post, so perhaps he became harsh later on, but from what I read, it was a classic case the the original poster being too sensitive about the subject and therefore becoming abrasive when others disagreed with him.

“I celebrate myself, and sing myself, and what I assume you shall assume, for every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you.” --Whitman

32

sorry to get off topic

“I celebrate myself, and sing myself, and what I assume you shall assume, for every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you.” --Whitman

33

Some of us, including Poly, Lib, and myself, profess belief in the Christian deity. Many people here don’t. Some of them are more in-your-face about it than others. So what?

In lots of other places, and at lots of other times, people have been genuinely persecuted for believing in Christ in a particular manner, or for believing in Him at all.

I’m lucky in that no one has ever threatened me with physical or economic harm on account of my beliefs, despite the fact that I come nowhere close to hiding them. Most of us Christians in places like North America, western Europe, and so forth are lucky like that. We should acknowledge our good fortune in this respect, and remember that the world doesn’t owe our beliefs any respect.

We certainly believe that if God didn’t exist, we wouldn’t either. But those who don’t believe in God certainly can’t be expected to acknowledge that in more than the most trivial fashion. After all, our existence is clear to them, but God’s existence isn’t, so as far as they are concerned, this connection is an illusion we share - a quite reasonable attitude on their part. So we can’t expect them to accord to our God the same respect they accord to us.

Being a Christian means we don’t have any territory we need to claim or defend. God’s a big boy; He can stick up for Himself in His own paradoxical sort of way, illustrated in the last few chapters of each Gospel. We’re the ones who get it wrong when we feel the need to defend Him - or ourselves - against all comers, when He didn’t feel the need to do so.

(And feel free to hold me to that last sentence when I act as if I’ve forgotten it!)

34

:mad: Guadere, how dare you insinuate that I masturbate! It’s a sin and not at all a healthy practice! I’ve never touched myself in an improper fashion. That’s not my style. Maybe it is you who is the Masturbater! I hear you’re a woman! :o Some women use battery operated mechanisms for autoerotic stimulation. I bet you’re one of those women! I can hear your device from here! It sounds so loud you must be having a good time, you pervertOH I thinki’mcommingtotheendofthismess… :slight_smile:

:reaching for a cig:

Hell is Other People.

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Gaudere:

Of course not, so long as we may understand that you don’t mean my God.

Yes, but I don’t say that your God does. I think I’ve always tried to be thoughtful of your atheism, with maybe just a slip or two that I did regret.

Am I being too cryptic, or does that make any sense?

36

RT:

You might be right, but are you sure? It seems to me that an illusion implies a delusion or insanity, and I think I am probably correct when I say that almost all the atheists have assured me that they don’t think I am deluded or insane. Am I missing your point?

37

Sake said:

As the sadist said to the masochist who was shouting, “Hit me! Hit me!”:

No. :smiley:

I think David has made his point quite clearly. He may have been abrasive at first, but repented of it. I happen to disagree about the “false memory/confabulation” question in the Butt thread, but no matter.

I’d thought of something along the lines of what Satan posted already (maybe it’s in the Raleigh air?). But all communication is in the nature of concepts imposed on otherwise meaningless media: sound waves in the air, ink on paper, knots in quipu, electromagnetic pulses, it doesn’t matter. What matters is what goes in at one end and out at the other. Somebody who was only able to read Yakut would have no concept of the amount of pain people here have gone through. But we all can and do read and write English fluently. (Well, BjOrn… ;))

Andros said:

That’s exactly our point. He holds your opinions as highly as He does ours. You need to respect Somebody like that! :stuck_out_tongue:

38

So I can’t say “Your God does not exist”? You think your God exists, and so you say “My God exists”. I think your God does not exist, so I say “Your God does not exist”. We have looked at the evidence and drawn different conclusions; I fail to see why stating them is cause for hurt or anger.

39

Lib:

As somebody who respects your beliefs and opinions I nevertheless think that it’s unfair to expect others to give “your God,” or “your beliefs” special consideration simply because they are yours. Sorry.

The nature of debate is that if you post it it’s fair game.

Often wrong… NEVER in doubt

40

Gaudere:

Okay, you might be right. It would help if you would give me another of my subjective attributes that you would declare does not exist, and how you would obtain evidence one way or the other. If I told you that I love my mother, would you say that, given what evidence you have, you have drawn a different conclusion, and that I in fact do not love my mother?

I guess you would view her as “dead”, but even if you don’t believe that she is spiritually alive, as I do, would you not at least grant me that she lives in my heart? Not my head. My heart. I respect that, as an atheist, you believe that my heart is all in my head. :slight_smile: But, in other than the most clinical context, would you ever say, “Your mother doesn’t exist. She is a figment of your imagination. And your love is not for her but for a ghost.”? It really doesn’t sound like Gaudere. In my opinion, I mean.