octopus
January 7, 2021, 1:50am
1075
Max_S:
There’s the problem.
I’m looking at a specific topic, here’s a link for you: Trumpsters in the US Capitol building
The topic has a narrow focus, per the rules of P&E. It is about today’s events on Capitol Hill. It is not a debate about whether mob action is good or bad or violent or peaceful in general. If we are agreed, I will proceed to your post,
That’s absolutely uncalled for. I was against mob violence while it was excised daily by those on this site because it suited their political agenda. I’m against this as well. Sorry if pointing out hypocrisy is somehow uncomfortable. However, when mob violence is normalized and process is ignored as inconvenient you cannot be surprised when that very concept works against you.
You don’t think the citizens of all the cities and states that had 10s if not 100s millions of dollars worth of damage matter as much as the folks in DC? I think this whole year has been absolutely shameful with regards to political civility. There is no place for violence in politics and yet depending on who that violence is directed at we get selective outrage or selective support. That doesn’t work.
The discussion had a narrow focus on today’s events, per P&E rules, and I assume your posts do too. You didn’t actually point out JohnM ’s hypocrisy (I can’t see any hypocrisy here). You made an argument going from the general to the specific,
You are against all mob violence, and today’s storming of the Capitol is mob violence, so you are against today’s storming of the Capitol
In my opinion the general debate would have been off-topic, but the specific argument was on-topic. Now here in this Pit thread, you’re trying to tell me that you were making a general argument and my understanding of you is highly flawed.
Well, what did I get wrong? How is pointing out hypocrisy of other members in other contexts in any way related to your main argument that mob violence in this specific instance is wrong?
~Max
Because if you are going to disagree with political violence and mob violence it carries much more weight if you are consistently against it and not for it sometimes and against it at others.
JohnT:
We are literally called ‘bleeding heart liberals’ for the sin of wanting Universal health insurance, people to be treated equally, and a cleaner society, and these people who hate us are now destroying the fabric of America precisely because of our desire to be good . To improve the lives of others.
The man who wrote lines 2-5 above knows exactly what it feels like for a person to have hateful and mendacious leaders bringing harm and misery via some peoples hate of others… this hatred based upon the goodness of others.
And in verse 6, he identifies what happened with these Godless people - they gathered, mesmerized by a man supported by Satan, the ancient manifestation of evil. Psychotics. Bad people.
What you, Trump, and your ilk have done to this country deserve all the Biblical prayers and psalms of lamentation we can serve upon MAGA, Octopus.
Religious nuttery is irrelevant.
Kimstu:
Nobody here is saying, or has said in the past, that violence, rioting and looting by left-wing protestors is okay or should be encouraged. You are making that up in a desperate attempt to project your own hypocrisy onto others.
Another false equivalence you’re unsuccessfully trying to get away with involves ignoring major discrepancies in rational reality in protest causes. Even if we don’t support occasional rioting and violence occurring in mostly peaceful protests against, e.g., racist police brutality and glorification of racist pro-slavery ideology, we can at least recognize that police brutality and glorification of racist ideology actually exist and are bad things.
Your fellow Trump voters, on the other hand, are engaging in a violent terrorist insurrection over allegations of electoral malfeasance that are completely fictional. Trump did not win a “landslide victory”, or any kind of victory, last November. There were not huge numbers, or even tiny numbers, of falsified votes. There was no kind of conspiracy to “steal” the election from Trump. That, unlike this country’s all-too-real tragic history of neoConfederate racist oppression, is a bunch of complete and utter bullshit that Trump peddled to feed his sorry ego and milk contributions from his enraged gullible supporters.
You Trumpists are not only terrorists and hypocrites with no actual respect for the law and order you claim to revere so much, you’re also ignorant dupes who can’t even tell the difference between a real-life societal problem and a huckster’s made-up egotistical fantasy. It would almost be funny if it weren’t so contemptible.
That’s ridiculous. Some Trump voters are lawless. But, unfortunately, lawlessness is becoming more frequent with regards to politics and ideology. If you are against such things it would be intellectually honest to agree with others who actually promote such things instead of mocking them when it’s your side behaving illegally and embarrassingly.
Now all that said, of course the events of today aren’t proper. And I have consistently have said as much. 2022, 2024, 2026, 2028 will have more elections and more ideological confrontations. Where will you and your cohort stand with regards to law and order and condemnation of mob violence when, without doubt, factions aligned with your politics engage in such activity? Will you consistently condemn that violence or will it be ‘understandable’?