Great. One of the few things I haven’t been worrying about. I mean, I knew she wanted me (I may not know dating, but I know sex…some on this board would say that’s all I know), but that’s not necessarily the same as wanting to be “taken”. She’s a Libra. Unless she’s a very unusual one, she’s all about sensuality, not brute force. And, it was our first date. So, I just enjoyed knowing it, and didn’t do anything about it. (See? I do have patience in some areas.)
Ack! What a horrible thought! Those “rules” were such contrived bullpuckey! But, I’d actually settle for that. At least then I could get hold of a copy, so I’d know what to expect.
Well, yeah, but would you take someone’s word for it, that they’re not a stalker? I did make an effort to convey, gently, how unnerving the lack of communication was, last time I saw her. I guess I’ll have to bring it up, again, but I’m also worried about coming across as being a pain in the ass about it.
Aw! Aren’t you sweet? Is Papa Tiger still in the picture?
Yuh huh. That’s why I said “she said” she’d been stalked so many times.
Yes. And, she acknowledged it, and seemed a little embarassed about it. But, not enough to make amends, apparently.
Thank you! Yes, that would be wonderful.
Aw. blush Heh! So, I have some very nice company for the “drive”. And, hey, when you’ve got a talent like my ability to scratch off the world’s easiest shot, as long as it’s the 8 ball, it’s only right to share it with the world.
I’m sure there are some women who don’t play games. I just may not have picked one, this time. It’s hard to tell, at this stage.
Sound advice, I’m sure. And, I’m trying. But, as you so obviously understand (Yes, that’s exactly what it’s like in my head. Minus the buttercups. They didn’t come up in conversation. OH, NO! I forgot to mention buttercups! No wonder she hates me! ;)), it ain’t easy.
Yeah, either the TCI or freakedness is possible. (It would sure be wonderful is she were thinking of me as much as I think of her, but I highly doubt it.) I’ll try to work in the communication problems, if I get to see her, again. But, it may be a touchy subject, so I’m going to have to tread lightly, I think.
Thanks for sharing your experience. It’s nice to hear that it can work out. But, lack of hope is not an issue, for me. I don’t know why, but it isn’t. It would be easier if there were no hope. I’d just move on. I’d be sad, but I’d move on.
Here’s my plan, as of now. I’m going to call her tomorrow evening, if I haven’t heard from her, by then. (I’m pretty sure my heart can take the stress that long.) If, by some miracle, I actually get hold of her, after some “how’s your week going” chitchat, I’m going to ask her out, again. My company is moving its offices, this weekend. As a result, I shouldn’t need to be in the office, Friday. So, I’m going to suggest Friday. I’m also thinking I may try to find a room up there, this time, and hit the beach on Saturday. (Maybe she’ll want to see me again, Saturday, maybe she won’t. I’m not counting on that.) (But, it would be nice. ;))
The questions are, what do I do, if I don’t manage to get her on the phone? Or, should I call tonight, so as to allow for communication delays? I was thinking I’d let her know my overnight plan, too, with all the explanation I gave you guys. Good idea, or bad? Or, neutral?
Well first off, I have to say, Salem, that was freakin’ hysterical. Now everytime I hear the word “buttercup” (not that you hear it that often" I will think of you.
Now, on to you Dave. So if you call her tommorow night (Wed) you would’ve waited 3 days for a return call. Sounds reasonable. I’d definately wait until then. Don’t call her tonight. It seems a longer amount of time has passed than has really because we’re all waiting with baited breath here. But Wed. is totally fine. Any chance you might know if she has caller ID? I’m sure she does on her cell phone but she might not on her house phone. I’m trying to think of which line you should call her on.
Get a hotel room, but I don’t know if you should tell her or not. If you do, she might feel pressured, thinking you’re expecting her to stay there with you. If you don’t, and it comes out later she might feel as if you had “planned” something to happen that night. Of course she might be into that. Anyone else have input about this particular aspect??
Just realized upon rereading my post that I didn’t really explain why I was asking about caller ID. I"m trying to see if you should call both her house and cell phones, or just one.
It could be entirely possible that she’s sitting around with her friends wondering and worrying about the exact same things that you are wondering and worrying about.
Ah, well. At least you communicated clearly. Probably just as well. If two tigers produced a white rabbit, who knows what would result from the mating of a tiger and a bear? But, I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t want to hand feed it.
What? You mean you think she was exaggerating? I thought it was pretty accurate depiction. Is that a bad sign?
It’s not the length of time that’s passed that worries me, it’s the amount of time before Friday. If I don’t catch her at home, and she ignores my message, this weekend is shot, if I wait till Wednesday. If I call tonight, I could (almost reasonably) call again Thursday, if necessary. Right? Gotta plan two moves ahead.
As for the phone, there’s really no option. I can’t call her cell phone, even if she has one. I’m not sure she does. She may just have that calling card I mentioned. But, I have no idea whether she has caller ID, or not.
Well, my thought was that the creepiness factor would be much higher if she found out, as opposed to me telling her outright, than it would be if I just told her up front.
Holy COW! Look who’s here! Were your ears burning? I presume that was you, the lovely October was referring to.
Yeah, it’s possible. But, I really doubt it. I wish!
Whoops, I thought you had called her cell phone before, my bad. That’s the thing though, if you call her tonight, don’t hear from her and call her again Thursday, you would have put in 3 (or was it 4, did you call her again?) unreturned phone calls in 5 days. Not making you look all that good. I’m looking at it strictly from her point of view here, to try to give you some perspective.
As far as the hotel room goes, you’ve got a good point. I’m still very curious to see other’s views on this.
I didn’t really think Salem was exaggerating, because I tend to do the same thing. I overanalyze like you wouldn’t believe. I’ll read the same email like 50 times (well okay, more like 10, I kinda have to, I’ve got this problem with paying attention to detail, I tend to miss more subtle things the first few times which makes my overanalyzing somewhat necessary) it was just the way she wrote it that cracked me up.
D.Bear! What a kewl thread this is turning into. I’m not sure it CAN be hijacked, at this point, has too many topics in it, to be able to be “off” topic. "
Communications solution: Do the Store-to-store search, hell, buttercups are important enough … no … wait … Cyprus … no … Snood … wait, don’t tell me, I’ll get it, … the new definitive medical discoveries of P.I.S.S., HWoAH, TCI, and medicinal Chocolate are important enough … no, wait, … CHANGES in your Work Schedule, that’s what I meant, you being able to be out of the office Friday is important enough to warrant ‘tracking her down.’ Yup, unless, of course, you’d already discussed having Friday out of the office, back in the fogmobile, it can be a new revelation, deserving of getting in touch with each other ‘right away’ to schedule well … getting TO touch each other. (as it were)
Do the ‘call at work’ thing, dude!
oh, and the “sorta dragging her to the bedroom…” I had been ‘seeing’ her, for months … so I wasn’t suggesting that That particular Libra (D’I mention my ‘thing’ for Libras?) “needed” me to drag her to the bedroom on the second or third date, just, it seems, she Was looking for some, uh, stronger indications of my attraction to her … while I was waiting for Some kind of ‘green light.’
Sigh The 4-leggers with the big horns make the whole “courting behaviors” thing look SO easy, there on Animal Planet!
yup, that intuition stuff, tells ya a lot about who people ‘really are’ deep inside, but still tough to read who you’ll be dealing with, on the outside.
Oh, and the hotel plan … "And, hey, what with spending more time up there, it dawned on me that I haven’t been up there in the Daytime, in like, forever. So, I booked a room at insert economically priced beach town hotel here so I could spend Saturday at the beach. If you have any part of the day off, it’d be great if you’d like to join me. Key elements, >I’m doing it anyway, with personal motivations, and inviting you to join me, if you choose.< not that a guy who owns 3 pair of black dress shoes, just so he can be good room decor during sales presentations Would say, “in like, forever…” but …
I agree with Dave–if he gets a hotel room, doesn’t tell her for fear of creeping her out, and then she finds out, she’ll be COMPLETELY creeped out. If you’re going to do it, I’d say Wyatt’s way is the way to go–it’s casual, you’re doing it anyway–the things he said. This is, of course, assuming she calls and you guys get together this weekend. I wouldn’t call her again. When is the last time you sent her an email? Has she ever actually replied to an email you sent her? If you’ve spoken to her since the last email you sent, I’d send her an email-explain that you have Friday off, and wondered if she wanted to get together. Make it casual and no pressure. Make it clear that it’s fine with you if she’s busy, but that you NEED TO KNOW so you can make plans. Tell her to feel free to return your email or give you a call. Don’t mention the hotel room in the email–wait and see how she reacts to the idea of getting together again. This is a low-pressure, non-threatening (usually) way of communicating, and doesn’t come off as stalker-y as a bunch of phone calls to her home and offices might.
holy cow! it IS me! it’s entirely possible that october mentioned me. i usually skim really long posts, so i may have missed that.
have you downloaded snood yet? i’ve been addicted to it for years. when i’m stressed or waiting to hear from someone, i play it to keep my brain occupied.
if not, i highly recommend going out and doing stuff to get your mind off the whole theresa situation. the people i’m dying to hear from never call when i’m hanging out, waiting for them to call. they always call when i’m off somewhere trying to get them off my mind.
i don’t know what you like to do for fun. i usually go to a bookstore, or world market (do they have those where you are), or go visit friends. it’s free and helps keep me sane in these types of situations.
Wyatt is right on about the hotel thing. Perfect. Do that.
But uh, the phone call advice? Sorry Wyatt, I think you’re cool and everything, but getting the day off does not give license to embark on a frenzied phoning campaign. Not so early in the relationship, anyway.
I would have spoken up sooner, but I was too busy ooh’ing and ahh’ing at the first blush of love, along with everyone else, and didn’t want to put even the slightest taint on the matter, in your mind.
Besides, you are also a Libran, as she is, and I was afraid you might take offense. Let me state up front that I don’t believe in astrology per se (and the less said about the travesties known as 'horoscopes the better. They don’t even have a place in formal astrology) however, I have long noticed certain unnerving correspondences between sun signs and beahvior patterns. I believe that this may be because we are all aware of our ‘sign’ from an early age (for those of us born in the 60s and 70s - and probably other decades as well) and I’ve met very few people who didn’t know what traits their sign was ‘supposed to have’, and I believe that this may represent a subtle but potent lifelong influence. (oddly, the few who seemed convincingly unaware of their sign’s characteristics were mostly capricorns)
Anyway, there’s a big difference between male and female Librans. I love Librans -many of my “best friends” [male and female] at many times in my life have been Librans- but as much as I value them as friends, before I dated a female Libran, I would, skeptic that I am, stillask myself “Am I up for that again?” Often the answer is an enthusiastic “Yes”, at other times, it would be a regretful "not right now’ (knowing she’d be snatched up in the meantime)
Librans believe themselves fairly consistant and balanced. This is not quite true in the sense, or to the extent they think it is. The essence of the scales is to swing from one side to the other - a fixed one is useless. They are stalwart friends, but in my experience, societal gender expectations both allow the female more leeway and make more conflicting demands on them. They are, of course, remarkably sensual in a manner that must be experienced (yes, “must” - if you are unattached, please rush out and experience as many Librans as circumstances and fairness permit before the summer is over)
I suspect you’re experiencing the Female Libran in her fullest flower. I also have a certain suspicion that she has been (or “was”) seeing another guy. And why not? It’s not like the memo about your arrival was in wide circulation. But don’t be bummed. When the scales settle, you stand a most excellent chance of coming out on top, from what I read of your personality, if your own delicate balance allows you to stay in he game that long.
Of course, I am having an excellent Napoleon at the moment, and that could be completely clouding my judgment.
I see in this thread a lot of what I’ve done myself. Personally, I don’t think you’re being completely…ahem…candid…with yourself for the reasons you give regarding wanting to contact her. There was a point in time when I waited by the phone and that was at a time where I wanted someone else to fill a huge void in my life, not compliment my life. I suggest you are doing the same thing.
Bottom line, you can somewhat justify tracking her down for this weekend but what does that really get you? Either the weekend and I’m wrong. Or, No weekend, AND big bonus, no weekend ever.
Be patient. You say that you’re concerned about her safety, that you’re not into playing games. I submit that you just really dig her and don’t like waiting. Be honest with yourself. I wouldn’t say that if it wasn’t something that I didn’t have personal experience with.
Double bottom line, you can continue to chase her down and get booted soon or you can try to have a relationship. Your choice.
I see in this thread a lot of what I’ve done myself. Personally, I don’t think you’re being completely…ahem…candid…with yourself for the reasons you give regarding wanting to contact her. There was a point in time when I waited by the phone and that was at a time where I wanted someone else to fill a huge void in my life, not compliment my life. I suggest you are doing the same thing.
Bottom line, you can somewhat justify tracking her down for this weekend but what does that really get you? Either the weekend and I’m wrong. Or, No weekend, AND big bonus, no weekend ever.
Be patient. You say that you’re concerned about her safety, that you’re not into playing games. I submit that you just really dig her and don’t like waiting. Be honest with yourself. I wouldn’t say that if it wasn’t something that I didn’t have personal experience with.
Double bottom line, you can continue to chase her down and get booted soon or you can try to have a relationship. Your choice.
as to the phone … mayhaps I have gotten the picture wrong. But, from time to time, I’ve worked out of several different locations, and my schedule was not ‘fixed’ at any one location.
Like many jobs, it is no big thing for me to get “personal” calls at work, but it did mean that someone wanting to catch me might have to call several locations before they ‘tracked me down.’ Neither I, nor the folks who answer phones there, think anything of it if someone doesn’t guess right on the first call, they just try to be helpful and guide the caller to their best guess of where to catch me.
The folks at the various locations don’t even take messages for her, so chances are they don’t even ‘make note of it’ when calls come in for her, and she’s not there. And none of the folks who answered the phones seemed to show any resistance to the thought of sending the caller to the next place to find her. And when he Has tracked her down, he’s gotten real conversations AND got the date.
And, the response D.Bear has gotten when he called her “at work” seemed to match up with my similar experiences. So on the receiving end of the phone calls, it doesn’t seem that it would register as a “frenzied flurry of calls” it would just be, “calling her at work, the best place to actually catch her.”
That and I’m thinking she’s go-go-go enough, that when she gets home, she is ‘done’ for the day, probably intends to call him the next day, from work … then gets caught up into work again.
Dat was the logic chain under my thinking. But I’ve only Dated women, I’ve not been woman at any time recently, so it’s just a guy’s interpretation of the language of women … and in no way do I think I’m fluent!
Now, on the other hand, if DaBear could actually manage to develop his InnerTuition to the degree that he ALWAYS guessed right, and called the shop she was in, THERE would be something worth taking note of! goes back to basking in being thought of as ‘cool and ALL’ … but wondering why the phrase “sorry, Wyatt …” seems to be SO familiar as the modifier for "I think you’re cool and all … " *chuckle
I get what you’re saying, but the fact that she hasn’t returned his call yet changes things a bit, get what I’m saying? It’s one thing to “track down” a friend or an established S.O, it’s quite another to “track down” someone you’re just beginning to date. The former is no biggie, the latter? Not so much.
Yes, I agree with that. But, if the 4th one went unanswered, that would be an answer, wouldn’t it? And, I’d stop calling, stop worrying, and start grieving for what might have been.
But, I didn’t call, tonight. That’s tomorrow.
Sorry, Wyatt, you’re cool and everything…no,wait…that’s not what I wanted to say. I think I’m going to avoid calling the stores, for now. I have her home phone number, even if it doesn’t do me any good. Tracking her down at work would feel creepy. I was only going to call there to see if she was okay, earlier. Which, I guess, is also creepy, for some reason.
Your “hotel scenario” is pretty much how I envisioned handling it, although I didn’t think a cheap hotel was necessary. Actually, this being the height of the season, and Hampton Beach being a bargain-hunter’s resort, the cheap rooms are probably booked long before the expensive ones. So, I’ll just have to see what’s available. Oh, and I’ve never actually been to Hampton Beach, prior to two weeks ago. But, I get the idea. Actually, I got the idea before you said it.
I probably shouldn’t tell him that one of those pairs of black dress shoes he’s obsessing over is a hand-sewn pair of Italian calf leather loafers, should I? No, didn’t think so.
Huh? Never? Either I’m misunderstanding this, or I’m going to have to ignore it. As I said, I didn’t call tonight, but I’m going to call tomorrow.
When is the last time you sent her an email? - Sunday. But, I sent two emails, Sunday. One was a morning-after thank you note, that specifically said no reply was required. The other was just an URL I’d promised to email her.
Has she ever actually replied to an email you sent her? - No.
**If you’ve spoken to her since the last email you sent, … ** - I haven’t. One email went out before the first unanswered call on Sunday. The other went out in between the first call and the second. But, I haven’t spoked to her since she got out of my car.
…I’d send her an email-explain that you have Friday off, and wondered if she wanted to get together. - So, given the above clarification, would you still recommend email, rather than a call?
Well, I’m assuming (yes, I know) that, if I can get hold of her, she’ll want to see me, again. She as much as said so, when we were having dinner. She paid, I objected, she said something (damn LOUD beach!) about “get it on the return trip”. I followed up with something like (damn lousy memory!) “So, there’ll be a second date?”, and got a very sweetly embarassed answer in the affirmative. (Okay, so cutting my memory a little slack, the joy that washed through me, at that point, was probably somewhat to blame for the vague recollection.)
Anyway, if I can work it into the phone call, casually, I will. If not, I’ll be sure to get it into the conversation early in the date, also casually. If I can actually get to either point.
Are you sure? It could just be someone that looks like you.
Me? I prefer to stew over these things, endlessly inventing new reasons why nothing good will ever come of them. Then, I come here, and spew them forth for all to gaze upon in wonder (okay, so it’s really horror…close enough). Other than that, I rollerblade, when it’s not raining, as it has been all day, or play with my ferrets, when they’re not sleeping, as they are 22 hours a day (it seems), or write long emails to the few people I know who enjoy them and reciprocate. When I’m not reading or watching a movie.
You’re kidding, right? Have you read my posts, here? No, seriously, I’ve met a few of those folks, but I’m not one of them. Hell, my scale swings like Benny Goodman, and I’m well aware of it. So, no offence taken.
Why not, indeed? This is half the reason for the OP. How is it possible that this woman is available? Well, she says she is, and that’s all I can go by. She says she got divorced a couple years ago, and was seeing another guy for about a year, prior to his breaking off the relationship. I didn’t directly ask if she was seeing anyone, but she implied that she wasn’t, and I wasn’t going to insult her by pressing her on it.
The other half of the reason is me. Some of the ladies, here, have met me and can testify that, while my face doesn’t (always) scare grown adults, it may, on occasion, cause grave doubts in the minds of small children. And, while my physique is not horrendously bad for a man my age (I haven’t completely melted into a blob. Yet.), it does not have the young babes drooling wherever I go. (tanookie claims not to remember my appearance, despite the excellent job she did of capturing the real me in her drawing. Perhaps lorene can vouch for the accuracy of my description. There are others, but they aren’t participating in this thread.) So, I doubt that Theresa’s initial response to me was due to being overwhelmed with lust at the mere sight of me. Therefore, there would be no point to her deciding to sneak around on someone she was seeing, and keeping it from me.
But, I appreciate the positive assessment of my chances. It’s a big IF, though.
That’s okay, this isn’t a popularity contest. And, the Name the Aardvark contest is over.
I’m not offended by your post. You seem to have missed a lot of what I said or implied, though.
Yes, there’s a huge void in my life. There always is, when I’m partnerless. I don’t consider this a character flaw, but YMMV. Different philosophies. You might want to start a thread on that topic. It would probably get a lot of interest.
Wasn’t that clear? That I really dig her? And, I thought I said, somewhere, that I have no patience, and hate waiting. But, maybe that was in a different thread. If not, it should have been obvious. Don’t worry, I’m all too painfully aware of these things. I try to be brutally honest with myself. I may be blind to some of my minor weaknesses, but my lack of patience is one of the major sources of unhappiness in my life. That doesn’t make it any easier to acquire patience.
Oh, and while it may seem like it, I’m not telling you guys absolutely every thought that passes through my head. I can’t type that fast, and no one would want to read it, even if the hamsters could handle it.
Been working on the latter. That’s kinda the point of this thread. I guess I need to work on my communication skills, too. The thing is, if I never get to talk to her again…ain’t no relationship blossoming.
Sorry, Wyatt, I think you’re cool and everything … heh heh I think I’m going to start all my responses to you that way, from now on.
Actually, I totally agree with this being highly likely. If it’s true, it doesn’t make it any more pleasant, but at least I can understand it. Couldn’t she eke out enough energy to tell me that, though?
See? That nicely filled my evening, and helped me avoid having to think about the 13 page email I have no idea how to respond to. (No, not from Theresa.) And, now it’s bed time, again. Another day survived.
Disclaimer: Gah… though I’m going to overuse the ‘balance’ metaphor. I’m using “Libran” as shorthand for a certain group of personality types, often influenced by the fact that we learn early what traits we are supposed to possess. It’s a bit unfair to redefine words this way, but despite the modest correlation I’ve observed, I feel uncomfortable attributing too much credibility to astrology per se. I learned to calculate and interpret formal natal charts at an early age, and have often done it recreationally for friends (I try not to dismiss things without studying them), and in my experience, natal charts are not particularly accurate when they predict that the subject didn’t know they were ‘supposed to have’.
One thing I’ve definitely noted among Librans (and others) is a tendency to try to maintain balance by counteracting initial impulses. If she likes you, she might, consciously or instinctively, try to play it cool, not to play games with you, but for her own sake. This might go away with time, but in many Librans it becomes an ongoing issue in the relationship. For example, it can come across as ‘never admitting what’s bothering them’ (they may express the reactive response more than the initial emotion, but that doesn’t mean the intial emotion/issue was dealt with or has gone away)
This personality type (especially in the female) often seems to seek balance and harmony in their environment by “helping out friends” (coworkers, near strangers, passing marsupials) to the point that it may sometimes interfere with their own life. I recall dating a Libran who, it often seemed, couldn’t be happy unless everyone at the party, in our clique, etc., was happy (Thsi was most pronounced if there was something bugging her that she was trying to ignore or balance out as I suggested above) This trait often falls outside the fairly concrete categories (e.g. work, romance or family) we guys tend to see: some female Librans put their own issues on the back shelf because their friends’ issues seem more pressing. ‘Niceness’ or a avoidant mechanism? That’s a question the two of you will have to decide for yourselves.
BTW, when I said ‘seeing someone’ I didn’t mean anything serious. Even casual previous commitments (e.g. dinner invitations, antiquing expeditions, etc.) may cause transient conflicts (both emotional and scheduling) and which she may not be prepared to discuss with you. The semantics and symbolism of a ‘first date’ imply, but do not assure, a longer term progression. Whatever her feelings, her sense of ‘fairness’ might not allow her to give short shrift to the guy who asked her out last Monday, even if it’s hardly serious enough to mention (I don’t fork over my full social calendar on and early date, do you?) and even if she much prefers you.
One of my best friends is a male Libran who can get dates easily (if he can get out of his own way), who’s had many mini-crises like this. He’ll hit it off with a girl, but she won’t won’t call back, cancels at the last moment, or otherwise violates his sense of common courtesy. (He’s less tolerant of ‘flake outs’ than I am, but that might be an age thing, too; I’m not as tolerant as I used to be either). He once noted that he’d never seriously dated a Libran: they never got past that tentative initial stage. As a youth, studying the subject, I once read that this was common in dual Libran relationships,
Libran women are great fun, and wonderful people, but the stories I could tell… and distance relationships really magnify those issues
Nature’s best-tasting mood altering substance.
I did make an effort to convey, gently, how unnerving the lack of communication was, last time I saw her. I guess I’ll have to bring it up, again, but I’m also worried about coming across as being a pain in the ass about it.
