No thanks. However, feel free to shut the fuck up whenever you’re through.
Hopefully, that’ll be soon.
Whiny-ass, sniveling little bitch.
Let me see if I understand you.
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Fight Ignorance, don’t contribute. And don’t encourage laziness.
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Ditto.
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Don’t be a jerk.
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Ditto.
Sure, any group of people will cut more slack with people they know already. That’s a fact of life. If I were to go up to you and a bunch of your friends and started asking questions that had been asked a dozen times and whining about the way you do things, wouldn’t you be a little irritated? Well, duh. Of course you would.
So I don’t do that. I hang out with you a while, contributing to the conversation where I can and not being a nuisance. If you’re giving me a ride in your car shortly after we’ve met, I don’t have much call to complain about your driving, do I? Once we know each other and we’re friends, then maybe I can complain about the fact that you drive too damn slow and don’t use signals.
Or perhaps I decide to visit your church. It’s pretty cool, but I really don’t like the way the preacher runs things. And I don’t like what other people wear. Should I immediately begin complaining about the way thigs are in your church? No, no, and once again, no.
On the other hand, if I’ve been a mamber of your church for years, people know me, I’ve worked hard to know and get along with people, THEN if I complain, people are much more likely to listen respectfully.
I’m sorry you don’t think it’s fair. Moreover, I’m sorry you think it’s supposed to be fair. “Don’t rock the boat” has been with us a lot longer than you or I have been alive.
And finally, please show me some of these inequities in action. If you’d prefer not to shout it out, please feel free to email me (my address is linked to the mail button below and in my profile).
-andros-
I won’t claim you’re wrong, but I will put a bit of a spin on these:
- We used to have a sign hanging outside the Front Board when we were on AOL that said “We don’t answer homework questions.” Part of this is “in the spirit of Cecil” who does not take “obvious” questions and part of this is a corollary of the “fighting ignorance” shtick. We do tend to expect people who ask questions to not ask the most basic and most easily answered questions. “How many states in the U.S. in 1999?” should not really show up on our doorstep.
The Merriam-Webster 10th Collegiate dictionary is on-line (and allows wild-cards if you’re having trouble spelling a word). The Encyclopædia Britannica is also on-line. Both are free.
Should posters chew up everyone who asks an easily-answered question? I don’t think so. I alternate between answering the question while pointing out how easy it was to find the answer and simply pointing to resources to look at. I don’t think that response is out of line. It’s the old “Give a man a fish…Teach a man to fish…” adage. We will have less ignorance in the world if more people take the time to actually look up answers and get in the habit of doing so.
I do not think it’s appropriate to flame someone for asking an easy question. I have no problem pointing out that it was an easy question. As to giving regs an “ask a stupid question free” card, I haven’t seen it. An old hand that asks a really easy question is probably more likely to get gigged. (It is probably one of the few places a low post count helps.)
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You are probably right that some regular posters get away with making uncited assertions. On the other hand, if Stephmon or UndeadDude contributes a bit on physics, or cmkeller or sdimbert or Akutsukami add some information on the beliefs of Judaism, or DSYoung or Bricker posts on the law, we have watched them answer similar questions for months or a year or three (going back to AOL) and when they have been challenged in the past, they have provided the citations to support their statements. The fact that I do not challenge their statements, now, simply means that they have established the quality of their information by posting good information regularly. While it is true that a newbie is more likely to be challenged for references than an old reg, the regs are still open to challenge. I have never seen a long-time poster refuse to post backup citations when requested; we simply request those backups less often from people who have demonstrated their reliability. I certainly get challenged for documentation on a regular basis, and I am probably one of the people who does have a “don’t challenge” sign pinned to my back. (Notice that it was pinned to my back by other posters. I figure I have the same responsibility to be able to document my facts as anyone else, even when I post something in a hurry off the top of my head.)
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This is simply the dynamics of any social group. There is a certain amount of testing (not necessarily hazing) that goes on when any new member joins a group. It is generally not considered good form in any social setting to walk into a room for the first time and complain about the furniture. Scroll back through this thread. Take notice of two recurring features. There are posters who admit to being toasted on their arrival who now say that they can see where their actions warranted the hot reception. There are posters who say they have never been ill-treated as newbies.
I am not claiming that no newbie has been pilloried unfairly. Sometimes the mob does get nasty. I will say that it is not a common occurrence. -
This follows #3. I don’t claim that no one should be allowed to defend themselves from gratuitous assault, but launching a flame war with two whole posts under your belt because you didn’t care for the “tone” of another poster’s reply is not going to make you any friends. That’s just life. As for the old Evil Regs who spend lots of time flaming people, how many of them are shown respect in GQ or Comments on Cecil’s Columns? There are a few posters who hang out in the BBQ Pit and hurl insults. Generally, they are considered amusing if they are witty and considered tiresome bores if they are not witty. If you stay out of the Pit, you may never even see some of the nastier members of this group.
We used to have an Evil Reg on AOL who spent a good 80% of his posts scolding other regs for not being sufficiently nice. Mostly, he hurt his own cause. There is only one poster that any of us can control. By constantly berating the other regs for not “forcing” other regs to be nice, no one listened if he did actually find an innocent being harassed. He once “ordered” me to “order” another Evil Reg to be nice; I laughed in his screen. Even with a reputation for knowledge, I don’t have actual control over other posters.
Do regs (or Evil Regs) get slack cut that newbies don’t? Yeah, I’d say it happens. Does every Evil Reg belittle every newbie? No. Are newbies allowed in? Yes.
The point of the post that I linked to (that I lifted from AOL) was that this fight is eternal. It is part and parcel of the dynamics of any group as it comes together and rubs (or jostles) shoulders or bumps heads. I think that if you want to fight the good fight on this issue, you are better off concentrating on specific incidents rather than launching large demands for change in the organization.
If a newbie asks a “dumb” question and is jumped, post a quiet answer that treats them more fairly and let the hostile post fade into the background. If it looks as though a flame war is about to break out over a misunderstanding, try to point out the missed connection to both parties.
If today you got every single Evil Reg on this board to commit to following the rules of behavior that you would like to see, in two months there would have so many newbies who had achieved reg status that you would have to go through the whole exercise, again. (Which point was sort of the reason I posted that old AOL conversation.)
Good luck.
I’m still waiting for an example of a newbie being bashed because of his low post count. Most people I’ve seen go out of their way to be nice and helpful to a new person who is making an effort to be thoughtful and constructive.
Whining bastards are whining bastards. Period.
Please show an example… Otherwise I will conclude you are full of shit.
Brunetter,
It isn’t about post count. I don’t even look at post count, and I can prove it. I started a thread to Osip here in the pit because I thought Osip had lost his mind and had started posting bullshit all over the board.
It wasn’t him, it was an imposter. I didn’t catch it because I didn’t look at the post count.
I saw your first post in MPSIMS, I haven’t seen anyone say anything out of line to you. Unill now, and you are the one who came into the pit and started a post that was just begging to recieve flack. So you asked for it.
As others have said either post a link and show us where someone has given somebody a hard time just because they were new (and not because they were new and an asshole) or stop bitching. That goes for eveyone. Put up or shut up.
Kepi was kind enough to take the time to grace us with this gem:
This is the pit, you fucking moron. If you don’t have the desire (read “courage”) to defend yourself, stop making oblique and vague accussations and get the fuck out.
And if you don’t like the way things are here, get lost, shmuck.
Trust me, no one will know you’re gone.
Putz
I don’t feel like a “reg” (or even one of tomndebb’s “Evil Regs”, despite the name) but I am definitely not a “newbie.”
But I do remember when I was. I posted very sparingly and only about topics I had specific knowledge about.
I have read the Pit since my first day on the board–but I didn’t post there for a very long time because I hadn’t been here long enough to see how things really work. My first OP in the Pit came about a month ago–about 8 months after I started posting.
I’m not saying this is what everyone should do but people have got to understand that you don’t just come crashing into a party and start insulting the hosts, bossing the guests around and trying to be the center of attention.
We enjoy new posters, everyone brings something new with them. We do, however, expect some things from you–things that should be common sense so we shouldn’t have to post them.
Things like looking up a question in the archives to see if it has been answered before posting it again in GQ, like taking some time to look at several posts by a member/mod to determine if the crack they just made was meant to be taken as sarcasm/humor/teasing or if they were truly being insulting, and like having some legitimate sources supporting your opinion before jumping into a debate with DavidB about how children should be required to sing religious Christmas carols at school.
So far as “regs” being able to insult well-respected posters but “newbies” getting slammed for it, it works pretty much like a family unit–I can call my own little brother a selfish, irritating, immature, obnoxious asshole but if you say something disparaging about him, I am obligated to kick your ass out of loyalty.
Yes, the SDMB is very much like a family. People here share feelings and stories about their lives. We meet each other in real life. (In fact, I am meeting and having lunch with a Doper I have never met this Saturday.)
“Newbies” can become part of this family–if they want to and if they try to be a part of it. You can’t expect us to welcome every new person with open arms–people have to earn that.
Some people take longer than others to be welcomed into this family. I, myself, still feel like I’m still mostly on the outskirts but I still get invited to the cookouts!
We’ve had many threats to this “family unit” recently so you can’t blame us for being a little skittish when it comes to new people but stick around, get used to the climate, interact and pretty soon you’ll wonder what the hell else you ever did with your time!
Half of this thread is civility and the other half is Wally.
Kepi, you are the type of poster that most dopers ignore. You come in a thread, post generalizations about people, don’t care enough to give details because you don’t want to get flamed, then sit back and whine because it’s not all about you.
Wally is right. And since you made it a point to use the word arrogant, which I also used in my post to describe myself, I would assume that you are talking about me.
If that be the case, bring it on. Believe me I don’t need a single poster on this board to defend me. I can hold my own against a slacker like you any time any place. You can even take it to email if you like so the rest of the dopers don’t get the opportunity to view the exchange.
I don’t post for your reading enjoyment, so please feel free to ignore my posts, as many will ignore yours.
What are you doing on this board? You have absolutely nothing to add, only whining remarks and snide comments.
That newbie punk was, of course, me, back about a half-year ago.
My point? It’s kind of a natural reaction for a newcomer to feel like established posters don’t like them, or treat them with disdain. They seem like some exclusionary clique, and newcomers aren’t welcome.
But take a closer look, and usually you’ll find old-timers are generally friendlier with one another out of nothing more than familiarity.
It kind of cracked me up to dig up this post and re-read it. Methinks I was a leeetle paranoid. Some of what I said in it holds true, I guess.
I do think that the SDMB has its own personality, it’s own “vibe,” and new posters who (immediately or eventually) fit into it have a better time longer than those who don’t.
But for the latter folks, another message board where they may fit in perfectly could be just a mouse click away.
I join those looking for evidence that newbies are bashed by old-timers. Only time that I can recall ever bringing up a low post count is when somebody with 20 or 30 posts is bitching about how the board or its administration operates, or tells other people how to do things. I don’t even think the old AOL’ers should do the latter – and they don’t.
Spoofe wrote:
This surprises you? It shouldn’t for two reasons - it’s the Pit, and it’s Wally. He brooks no imbeciles, nor should he, particularly here.
Now, for the fact that he’s yet to give me a .sig line despite my repeated requests, perhaps I ought to call him a putz. 
Esprix