Okay for a 14 year old boy and 23 year old woman to have sex?

Great Debates
61

Well I dunno about your neck of the woods but everywhere that I have been, an adult male with an underaged girlfriend has been looked upon as a pervert, child molester, in need of help, really Not Right In The Head, sick, etc. Seriously. Try this simple test - get a group of friends together and mention that you met your adult cousin’s 14 year old girlfriend. Don’t pass any judgement, just bring it up, mention that they are sleeping together and see what people think.

And you know what? It doesn’t really matter if somebody thinks that the underage person is a slut or lucky or whatever. They are still underage and incapable of giving informed consent. And the adult is still an adult and really ought to know better. And it’s still statutory rape.

62

That’s a pretty big brush. Not all statutory rape is wrong. The law is codified the way it is because…well, I’m not even sure. I guess to prevent in-depth character assassination of every minor with a complaint.

But clearly the law is a guideline. Unless you happen to believe that a magical transformation takes place at the stroke of midnight on your 18th birthday, you must concede that not all cases of statutory rape are equal.

In general, kids should wait until they are of legal age to consent. But not every case is cut and dried.

14 year old boy, which means he’s been masturbating for a while.

23 year old smokin hot teacher.

I’m thinking this rates as a “let’s get some ice cream and have a talk” situation for the kid, not a “let’s gear up for years of therapy” approach.

If it were me in this kid’s position? I wouldn’t be an atheist, as for me that would have been incontrovertable proof in the existence of god. Also, I would have demanded to stay in the same school system, as it would have made me the clear front-runner for alpha male status at the highschool when I got there a couple years later.

I should only be so lucky as to have suffered the same abuse as this kid.

63

So, people are “incapable” of giving informed consent until the government says they can? Or are you saying that until someone is of such-and-such an age, they can’t give informed consent?

Well, I can go with the latter. It’s somewhere around age 13 or 14. It is, literally, 15 in one of the Scandanavian countries, I believe, and one used to be able to get married in the US (with parental consent) at age 13 in certain states (still can?).

No, it’s not my thing by any means, but sexually developed people should not be tossed in jail for doing it.

64

LOL and Amen, brother!

65

An adult who has sex with a willing teenager is not an abuser, molestor, rapist, or predator.

So it’s ok for an adult to have sex with a 13 year old as long as the kid’s “willing”?

And what makes a 13 year old more mature than a 12 year old? Does something magical happen on their 13th birthday that suddenly makes them capable of making such big decisions, and thus fair game for adults? What if it’s a very mature 11 year old? How come an adult that does a 13 year old isn’t an AMRP, but they would be if the kid was 11? Where do you wanna draw the line, here?

66

BTW, one summer when I was 20 I had 17-year-old girlfriend for a few months (no, we never did much; she was a big Christian). At any rate,

A. It never felt wrong.
B. No one seemed to think it was wrong, which included my friends, her friends, other camp counselors and campers (I was a counselor at summer camp, and she was a “junior counselor” or something like that).
C. They told me the age of consent in SC was 16 anyway (not sure about that).
D. My parents didn’t care.
E. Her parents didn’t care.

And all for good reason, since we weren’t that different in age. Yeah, it IS a little weird when a 50-year-old dates an 18-year-old. But it really wouldn’t be that weird if they were just getting it on for kicks.

But we have such a hung-up, puritanical society that no one can accept that. We never drink wine to get drunk (it’s for the flavor), and we only engage in pure, loving relationships. :dubious:

67

If your implication is that there is going to have to be an arbitrary line, well then, you’re probably right. Right now, however, that line is drawn way too high. There will always be people who make stupid sexual choices at any age, but keep in mind whether people should be punished for having sex with someone of a certain age–this is a debate with real consequences.

Should someone be put in the clinker for doing a 17-year-old? No way. 16? No. 15? No. 14? Here is where I would draw the line. This is the age when kids are graduating JH and going into HS; it’s a good cutoff.

68

Cite?

This is just as offensive as the comments that an adult having sex with a boy makes the boy “lucky”…

Just ain’t true…

Survivor (of sexual abuse as a teenage boy…)

69

(The italics are mine.)

Huh? Please assure me that I missed some sarcasm - it’s possible, as the hour is late.

As for those who have stated that this kid wasn’t abused simply because they think that they would have liked the chance to be in his position:

Like I said before, it’s very easy to talk about what one “would’ve” felt and done, never having been in that situation. I suspect that it’s just as possible that the child involved may be conflicted and confused about the sexual encounters and this conflict and confusion may lead to problems down the road.

Re: the question of whether “statutory rape” is bogus: Even if statutory rape laws didn’t apply, this situation would still be very troubling - sex between a superior and subordinate is something that is generally disallowed due to the threat of coercion & other complications, such as favoritism.

70

Gah. I italicized something that was already italicized. That’s what I get for failing to preview.

I meant to bold the “…but then, all males are” part of the quote.

71

As long as said 13 year old knows what sex is, what the risks are and how to deal with them, etc. then yes.

As you correctly point out, there will always be problems with any line we draw. That’s why I’d rather not draw a line at all, but rather judge each case on its merits. Different people have different levels of knowledge and maturity (however you want to define “maturity”), and the law should recognize that.

72

No, I mustn’t. They are all equal because they’re all illegal. It’s not a “guideline.” For whatever reason, the cut-off point has been set by society. If you don’t agree with that cut-off point, you work to change it.

Maybe 18 is too high an age. Maybe it should be lowered to 16. I don’t know; I’ll probably have more of an opinion if I ever have children.

I do know, however, that 14 is too young. This kid was in, what, 8th grade? Geez, what did he and this teacher do after they had sex? Trade Pokemon cards?

It’s simply not as arbitrary as you try to make it sound. Yes, everyone goes through a different process of sexual development. And yes, everyone goes through this at different speeds and at different ages. But a person’s sexual maturity is not solely dependent on when they start getting hard-ons or start getting their period. There is an awful lot of emotional development that has to go on along with it before you can start making reasonable, responsible decisions about sex.

73

I guess we can start sending kids to war, letting em drink in bars at 12, and driving a car at 8… Because, after all, we need to judge each case on its merits…

:smack:

74

Consider the following.

A girl, 11 years old, has experienced the onset of menses and early breast development. She is sexually active with her peers. She also admits to having consensual sex at home and in the car of an 18 year old neighbor. Should he go to jail?

Consider the same scenario with the following variations.

The minor is not sexually active, but sexually developed, and gave consent because he bought her expensive presents.

The minor had multiple 18-year old partners in one sexual encounter – all acts of consensual sex. Some partners claim they didn’t know she was underage.

The 18-year old is also female.

The girl is mentally handicapped but still insists she gave consent to her 18-year old partner.

Same scenario as above, except the 18-year old is the girl’s school classroom aide or school bus driver.**

The adult is not 18, but 40, but the minor says she gave consent.

The adult is a relative.

The adult is in a position of direct authority over the minor as a caregiver.

The adult is a registered sex offender who has already served his time.

The minor is male, as is the adult.

The adult is a known carrier of HIV and takes no pains to prevent its spread or informing his/her sex partners.

We can’t say that sexual maturity alone makes this an even playing field. Some of the instances above may be tolerable; in some instances, absolutely verboten.

(**) Let’s just pretend an 18-year old would be hired by the school district to operate a bus full of developmentaly challenged children, OK?

75

my .02, itemized:

  1. This was my ultimate, ULTIMATE fantasy at that age, and would have, as a previous poster said, sold my mother into slavery and/or given my left nut to attain it.

  2. This is not “child molestation” - this is a post-pubescent young adult who’s only legally “underaged.”

  3. After one look at that teacher, I don’t think any red-blooded american male between 13 and 70 would have to be “coerced” into getting down and dirty with her.

  4. I think the only thing traumatic for the boy that will come out of this situation is the insane media circus around it.

76

Show me a 12 year old who can handle alcohol as well as a typical adult (physically and mentally), and I’ll show you a 12 year old who should be allowed to drink in bars.

Show me an 8 year old who can reach the pedals, see over the steering wheel, follow the rules of the road, maneuver his vehicle through traffic, pass a written test, and pass a driving exam–in other words, one who can drive as well as a typical adult–and I’ll show you an 8 year old who should be given a driver’s license.

But this is really getting off topic.

77

It’s not OK or right, but it is understandable; when I was at school, most of the boys in my class at that age were thinking about sex and trying to get it; they’d have jumped at the chance. Some of the girls were also pursuing sexual adventure, but not nearly in the same number, or with the same intensity.

Sexual intercourse, for a young male of that age, is a i]conquest*, an achievement; sex for a female of similar age is often thought of as a submission or a failure. This is the result of all sorts of deep-rooted social and possibly genetic factors.

It may be wrong that things are this way, it may be that change is highly desirable, but the reason for the reaction in this case is completely understandable.

78

It isn’t really off topic.

That’s the whole point… 14 year old boys can’t handle sex with an adult (mentally) as well as a typical adult.

I was out there doing it at 14 and it wasn’t until many years later as an adult that I realized just how screwed up the experiences had left me. And having worked with many other male survivors of sexual abuse, I think it’s a pretty common scenario…

79

Well, I and many other men lived your “fantasy” as teenagers and have paid for it for many years…

80

No 14 year olds can? Do you have evidence for that?

There’s a study I cited a while back, showing that negative psychological effects tend to occur only in unwilling participants. Let me see if I can find it.