Say that you buy a set of red sheets for your bed. Your wife comes home and sees them and goes into a frenzy about something or another, leading to the discovery that she has an irrational hatred of red sheets. Now you can either tell her that she’s stupid and it’s irrational (and end up sleeping on the couch while she sleeps on a sheetless bed), or you can just return the sheets for some white ones at no extra cost.
If two options are functionally equivalent but one pisses off your wife, I really don’t see the advantage to pissing your wife off. This isn’t a life or death scenario where rational judgments are of the utmost importance.
If you need beer in particular so much that it’s worth unnerving your wife every time you take a sip for the next twenty years, then frankly you’re just being an ass. There’s any other number of liquid refreshments in the world. One of them even comes practically free right to your sink.
His wife should get over this bizarre irrational fear of beer. It’s her problem. She’s the one with the serious issue here. What kind of woman browbeats her husband this way? I can’t believe people are actually suggesting that he give up his beer to placate someone else’s bizarre pathology.
Sure, you could say, “If you need beer in particular so much that it’s worth unnerving your wife every time you take a sip for the next twenty years, then frankly you’re just being an ass.” But, at the same time: if his wife is so virulently bothered by one beer that she is going to give him a hard time every time he takes a sip for the next twenty years, then she is one seriously disturbed individual.
Not really the same; you’re not making her drink the beer, whereas she’d have to sleep on the sheets. It’s more like if there’s a certain kind of cookie that you really enjoy, and you have one every day. You aren’t gaining wait from this, nor are you diabetic, but your wife is concerned about your cookie consumption, despite the lack of adverse effects, and wants you to stop eating the cookies.
Personally, I’d resent giving up the cookies, because my having a cookie a day doesn’t affect my spouse one iota. It looks like some kind of weird power play.
As in your last post, your argument is disingenuous. It assumes as a default position that the interests of the person who is upset by some infraction real or, as described in this case, imagined, should take precedence over the other without discussion or compromise. Even if the supposed offense were real (and to make use of your most recent example, if some woman I was dating put red sheets on the bed except as some kind of special occasion we’d have a discussion) bald, exchangeless capitulation would not be the way to handle this in any adult relationship.
If the o.p.'s wife has some emotional, irrational response to any drinking then she owes it to him (and herself) to speak up and say so. “Honey, I know it’s only one beer a night, but my father used to drink and it reminds me of him passed out on the couch,…” et cetera. Then there is a basis to reason, and about which to come to an agreeable compromise. On the other hand, if the o.p.'s wife is just being an unconscionable ballbuster, and from his (admittedly biased) description she certainly sounds like she is on this issue, then all he is doing by acquiescing a harmless pleasure without getting to the root of the problem. If I were the o.p. I wouldn’t have put up with the sniping he describes for more than five seconds without demanding a reason for being hounded over a nonissue.
Again, the semantics of your argument assume the o.p. to be in the wrong by default (“If you need a beer…so much that it’s worth unnerving your wife…”) which is a very dishonest tactic, similar to “When did you stop beating your wife?” I’d say if the o.p. were such a milquetoast that he gave into every unreasoned demand and sniping criticism without insisting on explanation and consideration then he would deserve to be a cowering weenie. Adults in a mature relationship respect each other enough to be honest about what is really the core issue, and realize that compromise, even about issues one member may not like, is an inherent part of any relationship.
Any chance you’ve got friends (preferably mutual and mature) who enjoy a beer with a sports game or after mowing the lawn or when fishing, or enjoy a nice glass of wine with a nice dinner, whom you could bribe with a nice dinner (or even a pizza or some takeout) to come over, maybe drink a beer or two, and talk seriously about what the appeal of the alcoholic beverages is over the alternatives?
I almost proposed this earlier, but hesitated due to a fear that if she saw you as a budding alcoholic, this might make her see budding alcoholics in all your friends as well.
But now that you are downgrading her level of concern to annoyance over paranoia (If I read you correctly), I think it could be worthwhile. I know MY fears of alcohol are somewhat irrational because they are based in ignorance. I don’t know that your wife is the same way, but I can’t help wondering whether getting more anedotal insights into the world of the casual drinker might help counter the “woohoo! Party Time!” mentality of the commercials.
Not directed at Larry, but rather at those who refuse to see any potential for concern in one beer a night. I happen to know someone who was putting his relationship under a great deal of strain by drinking two beers in a sitting several times a week. OK, so his ladyfriend wasn’t so much alarmed by the drinking as she was annoyed by his tendency to drink two beers and call her to tell her he couldn’t come over because he’d drunk too much . . . and there’s plenty of evidence that she’s a widow who was hoping to replace a beloved husband, while he’s a footloose single man out for a homecooked meal and maybe some sex (so the drinking “too much” and calling to cancel casual dates was a symptom rather than the cause of the problem) . . . .
But just because you (generic you) drink with abandon and don’t have a problem doesn’t mean that those of us who have a hard time seeing any alcohol as potentially problematic are irrational by definition.
There is a difference in need and want. There is no rational reason why he should have a beer when he comes home at night. His wife has expressed an irrational or unreasonable fear about his drinking a reasonable amount.
While her feelings must be considered and dealt with, there is no reason for them to dominate. He has a right to control what goes in and out of his body unless it is directly affecting her in a way that she cannot control.
As it is, she is the only one who is in control of her thoughts and feelings. She is misinformed. Larry can help to educate her by finding supportive information on the internet or by having her talk with a physician about alcoholism. But as long as he is not being abusive to her or missing work or passing out or drinking in binges or drinking a lot, then he doesn’t seem to have a problem with alcohol.
She, on the other hand, with her namecalling is being a little abusive. I would think that using the word “alcoholic” is a low blow around that house. Her attempts to control seem totally unwarranted. He shouldn’t reward them by just giving in for no good reason. She gets to control who she is and what she does and he gets to control who he is and what he does. The exceptions should come when the other person’s behavior is actually causing a real problem.
It is true, however, that beer can become a really big problem.
This thread gets closer and closer to being in the Twilight Zone with every post. I can practically smell Rod Serling’s cigarette.
Are you people serious? Have I entered a portal into a world where a man drinking one beer…ONE beer…is even remotely considered to be doing something wrong, and that he should be the one to think about changing his behavior? This is absolutely ridiculous and I can’t believe it’s being given credence. For God’s sake! Don’t drink non alcoholic beer, don’t drink milk, don’t invite people over and have a philosophical discussion about why you like to drink one beer. Just live your goddamn life and don’t let someone else lead you around on a leash. The wife is so obviously in the wrong here. She has some pathological aversion to either alcohol, or to her husband (and is taking it out on him over the issue of this beer.) This situation is unacceptable, and caving in to her is not the solution.
Not to mention that alcoholics tends to underestimate or underreport the amount of drinking that they do. I suspect that many heavy drinkers have the same problem.
You know, the same way that overeaters often underestimate the amount of food that they consume. Sometimes it’s an honest misperception on their part; at other times, it’s because they’re not being honest with themselves.
I’m not callling the OP a liar; not by any stretch. However, when someone says that they only have one beer a day, I sometimes wonder how accurate that is.
I actually hada bit of this same issue with my wife. I rarely drink more than the very occasional beer anymore, but a couple of years ago, when my grocery store added on a liquor annex, I started grabbing a sixpack when I went to grocery store. Like Larry, I only had one or two or night, but my wife was getting disturbed, not at the quantity, but the regularity.
Now I’ve never had any problems with alcohol and addiction, and I wasn’t getting any momentum with my nightly beer consumption, or even getting drunk, but the fact that I had gone from like 2 beers a year to a beer a night was kind of a weird change, and like Larry, it had more to do with easy availability than anything else. My wife didn’t use the A word or anything, but she did say it made her uncomfortable, so that was enough for me. I stopped buying beer. I didn’t have a problem. My consumption was safe and benign. That wasn’t what mattered. What mattered was that I decided it wasn’t worth making my wife uncomfortable for. I stopped because it made her feel better. Since I had no need for alcohol, there was no difficulty in stopping. It was an easy, painless way to give my wife a little peace of mind. My wife’s feelings mattered to me more than the beer did. It wasn’t about whether her feelings were rational or founded. It was about what made her feel better. I didn’t see it as a contest of will that I needed to win.
I’ll say this, if you find that the idea of not drinking (or at least not drinking daily) is distressing to you, maybe there’s more to her concerns than you want to admit.
If she genuinely thinks you have a problem, this was not remotely helpful. If she doesn’t think you have a problem it was still a cruel and low blow considering your family history. Your wife doesn’t come out of this thread looking like a very nice person, Larry. Perhaps she’d tell the story somewhat differently, but if we accept the facts as you state them then she’s being unreasonable, controlling and belittling.
Could you go to your GP with your wife and discuss your drinking openly with him? Would that help either calm your wife’s fears or bring any potential health problems to light? I honestly believe that calling someone an alcoholic for drinking a single beer a day is an over-reaction that trivialises alcoholism and I would anticipate a doctor would say there’s no cause for concern at that level of consumption, but IANAD so that’s just my opinion.
Skipping the other replies and responding directly to the OP:
You have changed your habits, and to your female mate, that is a threatening thing. You need to take two things into account:
She probably subscribes to the Puritanical American tradition that alcoholism is rampant in this country and causes needless starvation, homelessness, perversion, and general shame.
As a female, she is suspicious of any discernable change in you that is not in the direction of you becoming the perfect male she envisioned on your wedding day.
I am not being flippant here. Everything I say comes from my 35 years of experience as a married man. Unless a wife is the primary breadwinner in the family (an increasingly common phenomenon, at least in my family) any change in your habits involving alcohol, tobacco, or firearms (you thought it was coincidence those three were grouped together in the federal government?) is reason to worry.
Actually, any change in habits. Wives, especially young, inexperienced wives, are startled and vexed when their husbands change their habits. My youngest son recently announced a new fascination in flying huge kites (he lives in Hawaii, and the winds on North Shore are nothing short of phenomenal for kite flying.) My DIL nearly shat a brick, wondering what this new “obsession” (her word) presaged for their marriage.
Your wife will get over this, although it will take time. You can ameliorate her fears by actually taking an interest in microbrews, reading up on them, sharing your new “hobby” with her. Perhaps even ask her to taste a few of the varietals from the local microbrew. Once she realizes that this is a hobby, she’ll rationalize that there is an air of sophistication about it and buy into it. After that, you can pound down the brewskis all you want.
Actually, feelings are never about being rational. It’s thinking that is rational or irrational. Your wife handled the problem in an appropriate way. Rather than by making inaccurate accusations and demands, she spoke a simple truth about her feelings and you were free to choose how you reacted. That’s fair for everyone.
This is one of the most fascinating threads I have ever seen as it resonates on so many levels of the way people mediate their relationships, and the variety of doper opinions and stances on your scenario is across the board.
In the end I think this is more a matter of form than anything else. Objectively, rationally your wife is wrong on one beer a night being a problem but (and it’s a big but) it’s a problem for her that you are now taking a beer every night.
I am the child of an alcoholic, alcoholism runs in my family, and I have recently had to deal with a scenario where my social drinking was getting significantly more pronounced, and I had to step back from socializing with a particular group as I was leaving each gathering pretty toasted. I don’t drink every night and will often go for weeks without a drink, but when I do drink I need to watch myself.
Now having said all this, if I had a wife who headed to the fridge and popped open a cold one EVERY night when she got home it would … umm… not be what I would have specified that I wanted in a spouse. Irrational much? Sure. Here I am with a need to watch myself on the occasions when I do drink judging someone not over-indulging for the simple *frequency *of their consumption. The concern here buzzing like a mosquito in the back of your mind is is that they *need *it, and beyond that that they need it more than they used to.
Trying to, as some have suggested “calling her on her bullshit” has a very low probability of success. Her feelings in this (like mine would be) are not rational. Even though I drink (and have drunk to excess on occasion) I would have a built in “hmm?” with an SO to whom a drink everyday was a lifestyle requirement.
So… while her feelings might not be “rational” you need to understand where they are coming from. Getting into a rhetorical contest with her is not the answer. You need to sit done and address her concerns at length. If this is the hill you want to die on and tell her she’s being foolish, and she distances herself from you, have you really won?
I agree 100%. I was sympathetic to his wife’s concerns until Larry’s most recent post. Calling him an alcoholic is really over the top. She sounds controlling to me. One freaking beer should not be an issue, there has to be something else bothering her and this is just something to nag about.
It is true that alcoholics are skillful liars, especially to themselves, but Larry has no reason to lie here on this message board. If she is really that sensitive about alcohol, I doubt he could hide extra drinking behind her back. Breath mints or chewing gum don’t mask the smell either.
I would be really resentful about this. There is no reason he should cave on this issue. If he gives in on this he should just hand over his nuts to his wife for safe keeping. And I’m only sort of kidding about that.
My wife has an irrational fear of snakes. I, OTOH, kind of like snakes, I think they’re cool, and have always sort of wanted one for a pet. If Pet Snakes R Us opened up around the corner, I might have been tempted to get myself one.
Yes, my wife really should “get over” her fear of snakes, but it is infinitely more practical for me to give up my theoretical pet snake, than it is to buy a snake and demand that she magically fix her deeply rooted psychological issue with snakes.
It’s not like Larry’s wife is asking him to give up his preexisting social life, it’s an issue with a new behavior. Beer, for all that Larry likes it, has not been important enough for him to bother with in the past, he’s drinking it frequently now because it’s convenient to drink frequently now. As irrational as his wife’s position may be, it is important to her, because it makes her unhappy. Dio had it right 100%.
No, but just because his wife isn’t doing a good job of communicating, doesn’t mean Larry needs to play along with the irrationality. He can sit her down and say “this seems to be bothering you, lets talk about it.” Because communication is emotionally loaded, its seldom rational itself.
So what IS the solution? Telling her to fuck off? You’re expressing the attititude of a teenager towards a parent (“I’ll do what I WANT”) rather than a spouse to a spouse. You cannot simultaneously be married and “live your own life.” It doesn’t work that way. You either care about your spouse’s feelings and want her to be comfortable with you, or you don’t. If you don’t, then don’t get married. This issue is not about what anybody should be empirically “allowed” to do, but about how to negotiate an issue in an adult relationship. Reverting reflexively to something as immature and beside the point as what you feel you have the right to do is not going to be a successful strategy for preserving a relationship. She’s his wife, not his RA.
Or it could be that she called him an alcoholic because he refused to listen to her or heed her concerns. If that is the case – and I’m not saying that it is, since I have no way of knowing – then I wouldn’t fault her for thinking that he’s sliding toward alcoholism.
Again, I’m not accusing Larry of anything. I’m just suggesting that there are reasons why she might have reacted in that manner, even if it turns out that her suspicions are wrong.