Ah. I never had the privilege of reading The Blasters, so I didn’t know that PAD has been running that joke for eons. I knew that David and James Fry tried to pitch a sequel (documented in David’s collection of “But I Digress” columns), but it didn’t get picked up by DC. Considering how insanely loopy the premise was, I could see why. 
Case closed.
The King of Siam has spoken.
I never said Batman doesn’t get to use his utility belt or any of his toys. If you scroll up you’ll see that I said there’s a finite limit to the number of toys he can carry. He can carry a lot of stuff that would be very useful in a fight and he has the intellect to use those items creatively. But there’s only so much he can keep in there.
With some people, the utility belt becomes a size 36 Deus Ex Machina. It’s kind of silly to say that in a fight against Galactus, Batman would just pull the Ultimate Nullifier out of his belt and defeat our purple planet-eating friend with a series of rabbit-punches.
I can see Batman using the items in his belt to his advantage when fighting Daredevil, but against Professor Hulk? Not so much.
By they way, the results of the DC/Marvel battles of 1995-1996 were:
Superman beats Hulk
Batman beats Captain America
Storm beats Wonder Woman
Spiderman beats Superboy
Wolverine beats Lobo
Flash beats Quicksilver
Silver Surfer beats Green Lantern
Robin beats Jubilee
Elektra beats Catwoman
Thor beats Captain Marvel
Aquaman beats Namor
The first six were the result of fan votes. As you can see, the most popular characters won. The last six were decided on by DC & Marvel.
#1) I suggest deep, cleansing breaths. While it’s fun to discuss, when it comes right down to it, it’s just funnybooks. No need to shout.
#2) Even if he does get to use his utility belt, he still doesn’t get to pull anything he wants to out of his utility belt. Ever since the “New-Look” Batman by Infantino circa '64, Bat’s utility belt was catalogued by the writers to prevent the “Bat-Infinity Gauntlet” cheat. If you insist, I can dig up a “what’s in Batman’s utility belt” and list the contents. While the contents change over time, they’ve still been limited in all good Batman stories (Anyone else remember “Bat-Shark Repellent”? :rolleyes: )Infantino and Schwartz were big mystery fans and chose to emphasize the detective aspect. Ever since Asimov set down the rules for doing SF/F detective stories in the '40s, the prime law is it’s cheating if you resolve a story by introducing a new gadget at the end. So Batman cannot pull a “Bat-Radar Sense Discombobulator” out of his utility belt.
**
Let’s reopen that case as the preceeding statement isn’t even close to accurate.
He has never been “THE SUPREME ATHELETE/FIGHTER/MARTIAL ARTS/ETC on the planet”. He is “the world’s greatest detective” (notice that Ras Al Ghul calls him “detective” not “martial artist”? It’s 'cause he respects Batman’s extordinary detective skills far more than Bat’s way above average fighting ablilties.). While Bats is excellent at most physical activities, he’s not the best by a long-shot. Think of fencing. Batman is no doubt good. But do you think he’d have wasted precious years training to be good enough at fencing to be an Olympic gold medalist? Of course not. It’s not a skill he would have spent time to becoming the best at.
In most basic physical activities that don’t require specialized training, Batman is as good as it’s possible for a human to be, but there are other humans on the same level of skill or better in most things. It’s just that no-one else has learned as much about such a wide range of skills.
For instance, there are better pure-human fighters than Batman (Batman learned martial arts (in one retcon) from Richard Dragon, Kung-Fu fighter and said Dragon was better). Hell, Karate Kid has “super-martial arts” (but is still pure human). He can easily shatter steel. In pure martial arts Karate Kid whips Batman’s butt (and, IIRC, did in one issue of Brave and Bold or Karate Kid from the '70s.).
And if we add super-humans into the mix, he’s not even close. Let’s talk athletics: Who’d win in a 100-yard dash? Batman or The Flash? High Jump? Batman or Superman? Hell, Batman or Leap-Frog?
Batman is fiendishly smart, exceptionally skilled in an incredible range of talents and the world’s greatest detective. But he wouldn’t even come out in the top ten in a super-hero cage match.
Fenris
Saint of Killers, hands down. The Saint of Killers killed God.
Damn you Pravnik, I haven’t finished the series yet! 
I think the Hulk would win against Superman. Superman has a concern about more than just the outcome of the battle (classic hero weakness – caring for the lives of the innocent), whereas the Hulk has expressed a desire to kill even Bruce Banner.
I’d like to see Plastic Man take on The Flash. The Flash’s ability to run and see as fast as light would help him react to Plastic Man’s shape changing, but that doesn’t mean he’d be able to predict Plas’ actions or reactions.
Batman vs. Daredevil:
Batman. Fighting skills are comparable, but Batman’s smarter and much better supported. Daredevil’s one man against the world (like Spidey), Batman’s one billionaire with a crew against the world.
My Prediction: Both arrive at rooftop at night. Daredevil starts throwing his billy club, maybe scores a hit or two. Bats tries to get close to brawl, but DD keeps him at bay with the club and his trademark incredibly accute senses. Batman changes tactics, backs off, tries to lose DD. But, try as he might, DD keeps tracking him and finding him when he’s out of sight. Bats’ mental lightbulb clicks on (“hey, this guy can hear incredibly well”). He leaps across rooftops, ducks behind a chimey/vent/Air conditionar dealy, listens as DD runs at him, then Batman tosses a flashbang (or similar, I’d imagine he’d carry one), which explodes at DD’s feet. DD, stunned, goes down like a sack of bricks. He’s up in a couple seconds, but it’s too late: Bats, although bleeding and bruised from billy club hits, is already on him. DD stands into a bonesnapping roundhouse punch, drops to a knee. Unaffected by mercy, Bats unloads an industrial grade, USDA inspected, guaranteed farm fresh ass whoopin’ on ol’ Hornhead. DD gets in a few more hits, but a series of Savate kicks, boxing punches, and the occaisonal elbow to the tender bits put DD down long enough for Batman to cuff 'em and put DD out of the fight. Bats dumps him at the nearest patrol car, limps to the Batmobile, and goes home to a rib brace, stiches, and a fine brandy.
YMMV.
Fenris,
As of right now, Richard Dragon isn’t considered the best martial artist in the DC Universe.
Batman is.
Plain and simple.
Now as for his being able to defeat the Hulk…well Batman’s utility belt conatins tear/sleeping gas pellets, so all he has to do is smash enough in the Hulk’s face and it’s lights out for the BGG.
Next.
Emperor Palpatine vs Technophage
Batman did go against the Hulk in one of the crossover tabloids and took him out just as WSler described, with sleeping gas. The Hulk was holding his breath, but Bats slammed a hard kick to H’s solar plexus. That and another moment in the story were described as “startling”, essentially the only way Batman or any other mere mortal can physically affect big H.
Actually, I’m prety sure the title goes to Lady Shiva. Then Connor Hawke. Then Batman, maybe.
Not that bats wouldn’t be able to beat either of the above using gadgets or tactics, but stripped of his belt and in a steel cage, he’d probably lose.
I’m actually a big fan of the “Batman could beat anybody” theory Morrison has. Provided he has enough time.
For example, in the DD fight, if he could get away, he could get back to the batcave where he does have a heartbeat nullifying device, thus restoring his stealth. Not that he’s need it. I’d buy Mythos’ treatment.
But he’d have to have time to plan and gather speacial material. If Batman had years to synthesize Kryptonite and set the scne of battle, well, we’ve all read what heppened then, right? But if Superman went crazy and jumped Batman out of the blue one night, there’s no way in hell Bruce would walk away.
Nice try, but no. The Hulk can jump several stories. You think even the dumb-as-a-post Hulk is going to just stand inside the cloud and inhale goofy gas? Even assuming Bruce’s Magic Belt of Wonder contains enough gas to take down an extra-extra-large monster of a man with tremendous regenerative and healing powers?
Plus I’d guess any kick to any part of the hulk will result in a highly painful bone fracture for Batsie and a minor annoyance for Banner.
Batsie gets turned into Bat Soup.
Try again.
Give me enough time and I’ll figure out that Bruce=Batman. I mean it’s pretty freaking obvious anyway. So then I’d gain Bruce’s personal trust over a period of years, become what appears to be a good friend, be invited to his home and dump enough strychnine into his brandy to kill seven Banes. RIP Bruce.
Edited to correct some horrible grammar. --Alphagene
Nobody (halfway normal) can beat Batman.
He’s grim.
AND determined.
Actually, I liked the Bats/Hulk crossover from the 70s. Batman figured out what was the deal with Hulk and basically got everyone to leave him alone til he turned back into Bruce Banner. Smart. That’s what I like about Bats, he uses his brain, not just his fists.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Alphagene *
**
The Hulk can jump several stories. You think even the dumb-as-a-post Hulk is going to just stand inside the cloud and inhale goofy gas? Even assuming Bruce’s Magic Belt of Wonder contains enough gas to take down an extra-extra-large monster of a man with tremendous regenerative and healing powers?
What the fuck does the Hulk’s ability to leap several stories have to do with ANYTHING in this discussion??
Answer: Nothing.
And you destroyed your own arguement with the admission of Hulk’s being dumb as a post.
Thanks for playing.
Give me enough time and I’ll figure out that Bruce=Batman. I mean it’s pretty freaking obvious anyway. So then I’d gain Bruce’s personal trust over a period of years, become what appears to be a good friend, be invited to his home and dump enough strychnine into his brandy to kill seven Banes. RIP Bruce.
Edited to correct some horrible grammar. --Alphagene [/B
Batman/Bruce Wayne doesn’t drink alcohol.
Thanks for playing.
Mennochio,
As far as Superman sneaking up on Batman, it just doesn’t happen. Batman sneaks up on SupermanALL the time.
Plus, as has been shown over and over and over, Batman will know that people are in an area LONG before anyone else does.
Plus he has all of his alarm and failsafe backup systems to help him out.
Ok, for all you “Batman can beat anyone” types, tell me how Batman can get out of this:
Dormammu, the Time Trapper, Eternity, The Beyonder, Odin, Ganthet, Shazam (the wizard), Darksied, Highfather, the Spectre The Endless (even Destruction!) and Galactus show up on an uninhabited moon of an uninhabited solar system in an uninhabited galaxy billions of lightyears from Earth… A quick scan of Galactus shows that he not only has the Infinity Gauntlet, he’s also got a dozen Cosmic Cubes, the Molecule Man’s old wand, the Twilight Sword, and a half-dozen other artifacts. He’s also wearing the Destroyer suit, which he’s used the Cosmic Cubes to wish into obedience to his will… Galactus has used the Cosmic Cubes to A) wish all “Ultimate Nullifiers” out of existance and change the basic laws of nature such that none can ever be built. He’s also wished that the Cubes/Gauntlet/etc CANNOT be taken from him or ever used by anyone or anything else by him. AND even if they were, he’s wished that they can never be used against him. In addition, he’s wished that none of the others will turn against him: no sowing discord amongst their ranks for Bruce.
They’re all out to kill Batman. One quick wish by Galactus with the Cubes will make Batman drop dead. The others seal off time and space and alternate dimensions so Batman can’t escape then form a permiter around Galactus so he can make his wish in peace. (Since distance doesn’t matter to the Cosmic Cubes (and even if it did, with the Infinity Gauntlet, it wouldn’t anyway) Galactus and his band have chosen to stay in their distant galaxy while Galactus makes his wish)
However, before Galactus wishes that Batman/Bruce Wayne dies, the entire roster of the Legion of Super-Heroes, Earth One and Current show up (even Tyroc!). Good news for Batman?
Nope.
They’re on Galactus’s side. They hand him the Miracle Machine (upon which, Galactus makes the same set of wishes that he did with the Cube and the Gauntlet). Then the Legion forms a SECOND perimeter around the first.
Even if Batman had known they were coming, the Time Trapper (who’s power was boosted by the Cosmic Cubes) has altered history so now he doesn’t and never did. They appear. Batman has less than 30 seconds to live and he doesn’t even know he’s in danger.
And they’re 30 fansticillion light-years away away. It would take the Flash or Superman years to get there at top speed. But even if they could, Bats can’t bring anyone else into this anyway. Remeber, the argument was that Bats can defeat anyone by himself. Right?
Wrong.
Face it. He’s screwed.
The point of this…overstated (yet well within the rules: I didn’t pull a magic “save the day” gimmick outta my butt, I used established artifacts that the characters have used or have knowledge of ) scenario is that if Batman can beat anyone, he’s useless as a character.
Batman is interesting because he’s human. Make him super-human (and a “super-brain” like Grant Morrison gave him is a super-power (got Braniac 5 into the Legion) ) and he’s just another super-type.
The exciting thing about Batman is while there are people who are stronger/smarter/faster/better trained, he’s a Jack of all Trades. And he can be beaten. Every time he puts on his pointy ears, he can be killed. Let one thug shoot wildly, let one glancing blow with a tire-iron hit in just the wrong spot, let just one momentary distraction happen and Batman is dead. It doesn’t take Kryptonite, or the color yellow or even fire. Just a split-second mistake or worse, dumb luck. And both happen. How often does he come back wounded, how often is he knocked out? But knowing that, he still goes out each night. That’s an act of heroism. The “Captain Invincible” version of Batman that Morrison liked isn’t heroic at all. How can he be? He’s taking no risks, since he can beat “anyone”. For that matter, the Morrison Batman’s actually something of a wuss, since, if he can beat “anyone” why’s he wasting his time with two-bit street thugs when he could do a whole lot more good by, say: bringing down Darkseid or going to Qward and setting up a new government that’s not based on evil. Talk about a “greater good”.
Besides, if Batman has such a super-brain that he can take out “anyone” (even Galactus with the cosmic cube), dumb luck and minor mistakes will/should never happen. A) The fact that they do means he doesn’t. B) Even if he does, it becomes boring, fast.
For years, Marvel types bitched about how dull they imagined the Earth-One Superman to be since “What’s the point of reading about someone who can’t be beaten?”. IMO, the “Batman can beat anyone” types are putting Batman in an even worse position.
Fenris, who’s favorite versions of Batman are the “New Look” Batman from the '60s and the Conway/Moench Batman from the '80s, just pre-Crisis.
Hey WSL, it’s a damn comic book discussion.
Relax.
Be less obnoxious and format your posts correctly and perhaps I’ll stop being amused by your intense zeal over a fictional man who wears a form-fitting suit.
The point is Hulkie is not going to stay still long enough to inhale whatever sleepytime gass Batsie tosses at him. Let’s move on.
Not I didn’t and I mad no such admission. Professor Hulk’s got about 50 IQ points on our Dark Knight. But even one of the dumber Hulks has a strong enough desire for self-perservation not to stand with his head in a chemical fog taking deep breaths. So the gas knock-out plan is still a bust.
**
This was actually a reference to Mythos’s post, in which Batman retires with a fine brandy. But fine, I’ll spike his All-Sport. Bruce is an ex-Bat.
**
And thank you for acting like a humorless fanboy. Makes playing much more fun.
So Batman is omniscient too? What else? Is he a floorwax and a dessert topping?
**
These are the same Marvel Types who convieniently and completely ignore the fact that NOTHING has ever or will ever stop The Juggernaut.
Convienient that you didn’t mention that little fact isn’t it?