There are a lot of these groups. They’re more alike than they are different, but of course part of this sort of religious ultraconservativism is a refusal to recognize anyone else’s viewpoints as valid, so they’re unable to unite between them.
These guys aren’t even the worst. There are others who insist that the office of the Pope is currently vacant, or that some other dude is the True Rightful Pope. They’re called “sedevacantists”.
In particular, I don’t understand why people would want to return to the days when the priest spoke in Latin. What’s the point if no one else is fluent in the language?
To keep it mysterious. To give the mass (and the priests) an air of exclusiveness. For vain reasons, actually.
I have cousins who have similar beliefs. Not sure if they’re part of a specific cult, but they believe non-Latin mass, the priest facing the congregation, secular Eucharistic minsters, and other stuff I can’t recall, are not just misguided, they’re illicit and sinful.
And they’re all MAGA, which is not coincidental IMO. “The old ways are the best and correct ways” is their brand.
It’s the language that Jesus spoke, obviously.
I’d love to see a church conduct Mass in Pig Latin.
Of course, the Latin version of the Bible is called the “vulgate”, because at the time, that was the language of the Common Folk. And translating it into the common language was controversial at the time.
Which means that anyone who actually has ideological reasons for preferring Latin would follow those reasons into doing the Mass in English (or Spanish or Mandarin or whatever the locally-spoken language happens to be). Which in turn that anyone who’s trying to turn back the clock to all-Latin either doesn’t know why they’re doing it, or is doing it for the wrong reasons.
Speaking of which, I just received a gift from the A.M.A. to show their appreciation for my membership (discounted rate, joined for the free CME (continuing medical education credits)).
It’s A FREAKIN’ PAIR OF SOCKS! Yessir, A.M.A. socks, blue with various medically-related images (no pancreas unfortunately) and the repeating letters “A.M.A.”. Not the greatest for beachwear, but maybe acceptable hidden under long pants (no sandals).
A.M.A. socks. Why couldn’t it have been a t-shirt with the phrase "Kick RFK Jr.'s Ass?
A decade or so ago, perhaps longer, I read about some group of Catholics that held these beliefs, and even had their own “popes.” Their current (at the time) was (and I’m making up the name) Pope Jethro, who (and I’m not making this part up) lived in his mom’s basement.
IANACatholic, but I think there’s a similarity here between many Catholics’ fondness for the Latin Mass and my fondness for Opera as long as it’s in a language I don’t understand. Opera sung in English just grates my ears. Opera sung in Italian (or whatever tongue it’s written in) moves me so. I think it’s the fact that I don’t understand it which lends it an air of mystery, making it more … I don’t know what word I’m looking for here.
As Red famously said in The Shawshank Redemption: “I have no idea to this day what those two Italian ladies were singing about. Truth is, I don’t want to know. Some things are best left unsaid. I’d like to think they were singing about something so beautiful, it can’t be expressed in words, and makes your heart ache because of it.”*
Same with the Latin Mass, in a way. “I have no idea what that priest was talking about. I like to think it was something so deep and so profound, it makes your soul warm…”
*They were actually singing about catching an adulterer in the act, but knowing that bit of information hasn’t lessened my enjoyment of it.
Oh, that name is actually correct. He’s also a Double-Naught spy.
Specifically, they consecrated four new bishops without Papal approval, which is a big no-no.
Apparently, if any of the excommunicated priests want back in, they have to send a handwritten apology to the Pope.
Not gonna happen. Jesus was Jewish.
I had a devout Italian teacher, and on rare occasions I would attend Latin mass with him as part of the schism. (I am nominally Catholic)
I was in the (High Anglican) church choir, so regularly sung in Latin, meaning I knew what it all meant when spoken.
This particular church was somewhat less extreme, as the sermon was held in Italian, rather than Latin (or more sensibly, English, as we were in an English speaking country) so that went over my head.
To be honest, I quite enjoy all the pomp and circumstance of a full Latin mass, even though I am an atheist. But I do prefer it set to music.
Dubstep?
(When that deep bass drops it is very spiritual.)
There are still Latin masses, for those that prefer that. They’re still allowed, just as long as Mass is also offered in the congregation’s primary language.
There’s a church not far from me that has the Mass in Spanish, because they cater to immigrants. There’s also a traditionally-Italian parish, and most of their masses are in English, but I think they have one Italian mass a week (some of the older immigrants are still much better in Italian than English). And my own parish is traditionally Irish, but none of our parishioners since Vatican II have spoken Irish… but a big chunk of our congregation now are African immigrants, as are our pastor and assistant pastor, so we occasionally have a Swahili mass.
My understanding (not in any way a Catholic, full disclosure) is that Latin isn’t forbidden, but that other languages are also provided to make it accessible.
Look, I’d not say no.
Dubstep is not my favorite eleteonic music (I prefer dub and d’n’b in that small corner of the electro scene, but I am far more into the complexity and multi-layered rhythm/theme & variation of psychedelic trance. See - for a somewhat aged and extreme example Simon Postford as “Hallucinogen” performing “Jiggle of the Sphinx” in a dub mixup of his 2000s full psy-trance albumn “The Lone Deranger”
It has my jogging pace, so I like it for trail running - despite the time signature varying somewhat, with the standard 8/8 beat becoming a 3+3+2… I dunno, I only passed grade 3 music theory.
But enjoy:
(Approx 50 minutes long)
Yeah, saying Latin mass isn’t the schismatic point here, it’s the consecrating of bishops. In theory, any bishop can consecrate another by laying of hands, as an extension of the tradition dating back to when Moses and Aaron anointed the first kohanim by laying hands on them, but the rule established over the course of the centuries is that the Pope gets the final say, so consecrating a bishop without his permission is schismatic behavior.
Plus the whole thing about how the SSPX wants to go back to teaching the whole “the Jews are collectively responsible for murdering Jesus” idea.
The sermon was always in the local language, as it is (generally) an exposition on the Bible readings (also not in Latin), and doing it in Latin would mean no one would learn anything (not that I ever really learned anything in a sermon (or much listened, to be honest)). Presumably this Mass was in Italian because it was serving a group of Italian immigrants?
I am an old enough lapsed Catholic that I remember the Latin mass, and the missals that had the Latin with an English translation so one could follow along. My oldest brother had to learn the Latin Mass to be an altar server, but the switch to the vernacular happened just as he was supposed to start, so all that work was in vain.