Yeah, reading some of the responses to the Hollywood threads in general, it kills me how many people care more about their personal entertainment than ending sexual abuse and assault. I mean, at least when my family threw me under the bus it was for the sake of a personal relationship they had with another person. These people are doing it just because they want to watch a stupid fucking movie without feeling guilty about it. It’s gross.
I just googled Roy Moore and see the throwing victims under the bus was politically motivated this time, so that surprises me less. It’s still gross.
(Reading that thread, it’s less gross than I expected as he’s not attacking the victims for speaking out. Whatever, I’m tired.)
I don’t believe octopus is a troll, per se. He is a chronic irritant, a witless debater and an obstinate partisan stooge, but that alone isn’t enough to get flushed.
The thing that annoys me is he fucking knows better. Some of the people on this board don’t have the capacity to choose to be intellectually honest, but he does, and he pisses it away, then blames his intellectual laziness on other people, as if others behaving badly is some kind of excuse. He could be a much more productive and thoughtful poster if he wanted to be. I’ve seen glimpses of it before.
Whether that makes his angry ignorant posts examples of active trollery or passive trollery is hard to know.
But at least for what I use the word to mean, the defining characteristic of trolling vs simple jerkitude is that the poster knows better but does it anyway for the lulz.
I used to just dismiss Octopus as a troll, but now I tend to agree with Spice Weasel. I do see glimpses of a more engaged and capable poster, which is encouraging. We need other viewpoints. Then he flips into something very close to the conservative version of BigT, and the interesting poster disappears.
To your point LSLGuy, I could be wrong, but I do think he’s honestly frustrated by what he sees as “our” intellectual dishonesty. I don’t think he’s in it for the lulz. I think he’s trying to point out “our” hypocrisy and make us all be more even in our assessment, at least as he sees them.
Yeah, but nobody likes being painted with a broad brush, and I try really hard not to do that. In fact, I try to challenge myself on even my most cherished beliefs. It doesn’t mean I’m never a hypocrite, it just means I genuinely try not to be. But by saying, ‘‘ya’ll do it,’’ he is effectively alienating people who would otherwise be his allies.
This saddens me. I do not believe that what I do and what octopus does have much in common at all.
What I do is point out dishonest tactics and take the time to pick apart arguments I think are bad. I specifically avoid one liners and just discrediting someone because I think they are dishonest. I avoid snark except as a fun joke, because I know snark doesn’t substitute for substance. I always argue why and how it bothers me, and make as many allowances as possible. And then I leave, to avoid dragging it out and hijacking the thread.
octopus, on the other hand, switches into a tut-tut mode when he can’t win arguments. He doesn’t say why things are wrong, but just lambasts people for doing it. He sticks around and makes the thread all about him, because he wants to distract from the main issue. He refuses to make allowances to people for being particularly angry or anything. And he’ll just start calling people names and making fun of them, for his own amusement.
I know my name is the go-to for “guy who moralizes,” but I struggle my hardest to do it in a way that has substance behind it. And I do my best to make it the minority of my posts and avoid it when unnecessary.
To have the transparently defensive version by octopus lumped in with my actual desire to make the world better is disheartening. And, no, I’m not asking for advice on how to fix it, and will be avoiding this thread for a while, because the haters who enjoy pissing me off will likely be incoming, and I stay away to avoid engaging and making the thread about me. I apologize for that/them, but I felt the need to defend myself a bit here.
Your name is a short-hand for that, which is why I used it that way. I should have found another way to make my point, which is lesson 5,239 in why you should always edit your posts, and then delete them.
I am sorry for being hurtful. It was not my intention to do so.
What kills me about these “Dear Abby” trolls (good description!) is that when pointed out that it’s so obviously fake, someone will start with, “but it could be true so we have to be nice just in case! Besides, what if someone in a similiar situation is reading this! They need the advice!” For a place that prides itself on fighting ignorance, people here will fall for every stupid sob story that comes down the pike.
She’s “whining” because she’s obviously a troll who’s making it up, you brainless cretin.
I am one of those people because people are truly, authentically weird and their lives can be terrible, and I wouldn’t want to not help someone who needs help. After so many years here, though, I don’t exactly invest my sense of well-being in whether or not they turn out to be a troll.
Well yeah, there is a lot of weird shit that goes on in the world, and I wasn’t trying to insult anyone. (I hope you don’t take it that way, Spice Weasel, as you’ve always been one of my favorite posters here)
It’s just that the older I get, the more cynical I become. And nowadays the new trend when it comes to trolling is making up obvious tragedies to get attention – “Munchausen by Internet”. I’ve just seen it so many times.
Oh, thanks for the kind words. I guess I was kind of taking the middle road. I’ve been here ten years. I’ve been on the side of people thinking I was weird and not buying my story, but I’ve also seen trolls come and go, so I would say my default is to accept people at face value without becoming terribly emotionally invested in their story. (I’m getting cranky with age too. Oof.)
It’s not so much the weird stories (I hope you don’t think I was doubting you), it’s that they’re weird stories from completely new posters, usually as that person’s first post. And often times, they never come back, or if they do, it’s only in that thread.
If it’s a long time Doper, it’s one thing. A total newbie, right out of the gate? Not so much.
If octopus isn’t a troll, I don’t know who is. He comes into that thread, where there was an interesting and informative discussion going on, flings poo all over the walls to make sure everyone is giving him their attention, and now the thread is closed and two good posters got Warnings. The political forums here would be much better if the mods actually lived up to the rules and punished people for being jerks, rather than for pointing out that jerks are, in fact, jerks.
Well that is just rude. Being obviously a ‘troll’ is not always so cut and dried. Y’all call a lot of posters trolls and it is not always true. So I am always skeptical and sometimes gullible. But, never a brainless cretin. Thank you very much!
Two “good” posters? Hmm. You may want to look up that word.
I honestly can’t believe that low intellect posters like you are accusing others of slinging poo. It takes a special kind of simple to think a different point of view is either trolling or “jerkish.”
And here’s another thing, you need to stop making stupid ass assumptions about what a poster means. There is nothing wrong with wanting proof about serious allegations such as what are being leveled at Moore. There are a lot of good reasons for those inclined to not vote for the man. But before blindly accepting that he felt up a 14 year old 30 or so years ago why not see if the story has a bit more meat to it?
However, I suppose it is more emotionally satisfying to round up a lynch mob then take a bit of time and see what evidence is forthcoming. Let’s hope you are never accused of anything serious and are in court with a jury filled with low level intellects like yourself or BigT.
