SM, this is a lot like what I went through and ended up with a great guy. In order to not hijack this thread anymore than has already happened, please send me an email if you want to hear more of my story, and how it might relate to your friend’s situation (my email address is in my profile).
Hamlet, two of my closest and dearest friends are in a polyamorous marriage which is one of the best marriages it’s been my privilege to see. I also have some other friends in such marriages which also appear to be working well. The trick to making it work is that both people in the marriage put their spouse first, (“Primary” is the term I’ve heard used) and that that understanding is always there. Actually, for me, the fact that they are in a polyamorous relationship makes the relationship I share with them a bit easier. The reason is I’m a woman and I met the husband in this relationship first and am still a bit closer to him because of common interests, etc. They’re also much more into hugging than I was when I first met them. In a more conventional relationship, I might be worried about her getting jealous about me spending more time talking to (or hugging) him than her. Not in this one. These two treat each other with tremendous dignity, love, respect, and passion, and it’s a privilege to be their friend.
** Stifflers Mom**, I’ve got one concern which it’s way too late to do anything about now. You mentioned that it was a month before your friend’s SO told her he was married. If it were me, this would send up immediate red flags (three years ago, it would have sent me running for the door!). Anyway, all I can do is echo what other people have said. Be there for your friend, let her cry, scream, and yell, and I’ve found Dulce Du Leche ice cream can work wonders. As for where to meet new people, I’ve met wonderful people doing things I find interesting. I no longer go to bars, etc. because, frankly, I find them boring.
Good luck to you and your friend,
CJ
Don’t take this the wrong way, but, um, aren’t you kinda young?
My wife and I are very good friends with an open-marriage couple. They’ve been together for five or six years, at least. They’re normal, well-adjusted people with normal jobs, two cats, and a dog, and lots of friends who don’t share their lifestyle. Both he and she are free to solicit and boff anyone they like, within reason (health considerations etc.). They even introduce their temporary partners to one another; I seem to recall she recruited one woman for him once. Notwithstanding the kneejerk medieval judgementalism displayed by Brutus and others, it can be made to work. Of course the attention to communication that’s critical to every relationship becomes even more significant here, and lack of same can create some powerfully disruptive consequences.
No, I’ll agree with those commenting on the OP to the effect that the problem is not the man’s arrangement with his wife, it’s that the friend doesn’t have a realistic perception of her position in that arrangement.
<sigh> Yes, we “freakish” BDSM types need all the therapy we can get. Cause lord knows that we don’t know what a healthy relationship is. :rolleyes:
Actually, my relationships that were the healthiest were either open and/or D/s in some way. Has it ever occured to you that my definition of a healthy relationship may be a different variation of what you consider a healthy relationship? Just because it doesn’t fit into what you have decided is morally right doesn’t mean that it isn’t. :wally
Do NOT judge something that you have no understanding of, asshole. I’m not asking you to understand it, just don’t pass judgement.
As for the OP, I feel for your friend Stifler’s Mom, being a secondary when you want to the the Primary is hard. Loving someone who you just cannot be with in the way you want is just as bad. Although she has been comfortable enough to stay in the relationship for 3 years (for whatever reasons: whether it be for the love or the comfort), my best advice for her would be to get out. It appears that this isn’t what she wants in the long run. And as sad as it is, “sometimes love just ain’t enough.”
My advice for you? Continue doing what you’re doing. Be there for her, listen to her when she vents and please don’t judge her or her decisions. Support her no matter what she decides. It will be hard. but friendships are never easy. Ice cream, tissues and lots of sappy movies = good stuff.
Best of luck,
Kitty
I have nothing against open or polyamorous marriages. However, your friend doesn’t seem like she is in a place where she can handle it (or maybe any relationship.) Sounds to me like she has major self esteem issues.
I find it odd that she dated the man for a month while he lied to her about being married and then didn’t run for the hills when she found out. Too much in love?? After only a month?? With a man who had been lying the whole time??
Step back, buy your friend an ice cream if you must, and let it go. It is her problem and you can’t help. Just be there to recommend a good therapist if she ever asks.
I agree with this as well. People are saying this guy was a schmuck for not telling her he was married - and I agree, to an extent, while not knowing the circumstances since I wasn’t the one in the relationship. But…she was so head-over-heels after one month that she has stuck for three years in a situation that’s causing her this much pain? That’s…oogy, somehow.
But would she be able to find a guy looking to settle down and start a family who wouldn’t mind that she’s banging some other dude for at least the early stages of their relationship?
I find it interesting that the people talking about how these open marriages “work” tend to talk about how they work for the husband and wife. And while they may both be happy as pigs in garbage, the point is that very often the third person of the little triangle is not – precisely, I would imagine, because any H (or W) with any sense will put his/her spouse first. And where does that leave the Other Woman (or Man)? Second, that’s where. And second place may be far, far back.
The man is married. His first allegiance appears to be to his wife. Together, they do not appear to be contemplating a committed three-way relationship that would include Other Woman and/or give her any status other than just that – “Other Woman.” The fact that the wife knows about her and tolerates her existence does not mean the wife grants her any rights regarding the man – apparently, the wife does not. Wife has name, home, kids, husband, and lover. O.W. has . . . sex with Husband and chances for him to be “nice to her.” And that’s all.
I think O.W. thinks she is a second-class citizen in this guy’s life because that’s exactly what she is. She is his mistress, giving him sex but never being allowed to trespass upon or threaten his primary relationship, which is with his wife. The fact the wife knows about her doesn’t change that. To the husband’s credit, he appears to have been pretty honest (for most of the last three years) that “other woman” is all your friend will ever be. And maybe she initially thought she could accept that, because she loved him. And maybe now she’s realizing that she can’t.
IMO, if she wants more than he can give her – and most women would – and she still stays with him, then she’s a fool. The fact that she may be in love doesn’t change that. Love makes us do foolish things, chief of which is staying in relationships we know aren’t going anywhere, with people we know aren’t good for us.
And she’s never going to meet a guy who might be right for her, on her terms, as long as she’s with Mr. Married.
Never.
Oh, I don’t know about that Jodi…I did.
In fact, I always discoved that when I was, how did slacker put it, banging someone else, I apparently was catnip to males. Single, and I couldn’t get a date in a spandex dress.
I am in an excellent, rewarding open relationship which has been good and stable for more than ten years. We have both had a variety of other lovers, from the one night/week stand kind to stable, ongoing relationships lasting for years.
While, yes, some lovers left because they felt like the “other wo/man”, we have forged two strong relationships where all three of us felt like “primaries” (and which broke up for other reasons). It can work.
I think it depends on the “month” involved. I think that many people, for a variety of reasons, do not talk about various relationship issues immediately. I know that we have each had casual lovers with whom we didn’t feel the need to go into the complexities of our relationship (no offense, but aside from disease issues, I don’t think a one night stand has the right to any personal information). As it happened, one of my lover’s lovers started as a brief fling and became someone he cared a lot more about. He explained the situation to her as soon as it became clear that she should know. So if the “month” in question involved a couple meetings for coffee, maybe some hot sex, but not much intimacy, than the man in the OP may have told SM’s friend about his marriage at an appropriate time. However, if the “month” was one of long walks hand-in-hand, constant phone calls, etc… then he was seriously remiss, IMHO.
Thanks mischievous. Personally it is the kind of info which I would like to have upfront because I prefer to be able to make my decisions with full info and that includes whether or not I am entering an open relationship.
But yeah, if it were solely a few cups of coffee and that kind of date, I’d be OK with being told later. If sex enters the picture though, I’d call someone a bum for not fully disclosing. Unless it was clearly understood in advance it was a one night stand.
Personally, I agree with putting it up front, but other things can complicate the issue. Sometimes you’re not sure whether you want a relationship with a particular person. Sometimes a casual relationship turns intense. Sometimes you think a particular person would be interested if they get to know you, but they won’t bother if they think you’re “taken” (athough this rational can lead to abuses).
It’s sort of like disclosing you’re in the middle of a divorce. There are many well-adjusted people who get divorced amicably and can sustain a healthy realationship while the paperwork winds its own way through court. They are vastly outnumbered by the needy, angry, and on-the-rebound-y divorcees. So sometimes you don’t really want to bring it up in the touchy bare beginings of mutual attraction, but you know you should talk about it before things get too serious - because it IS a risk that lovers should be informed of.
I’ve always at least said that I’m seeing other people, even to my one night stands. However, it’s mostly not an issue for me. I tend towards long-term relationships with people I’ve gotten to know well, and most of my casual sex has been with good friends, who of course know the score. And it’s mostly been very, very good.
mischievous
I think that is decent of you, mischievous for laying down the facts to your new lovers ASAP.
In my friend’s case, he perused her and gave her the illusion that he was single; closing off rooms in his home (or avoiding going there all together), hiding wedding pictures, wedding rings and then, BAM! dropping this bomb on her a month after the fact.
Well, she did fall in love with him in a months time (yes people, it does happen to some, so stop your judging, YOU are not this lady). Besides, he was the one that told HER first that he was falling in love with her and THEN decides it was time to confess to his current lifestyle. Whoever fell first in this scenario, is irrelavant. They both adore each other to death. I am not questoning the love they have for one another. It exists. Deal.
Anyway, she was shocked and very disappointed when she found out her was married. She told him she would have never allowed herself to get close to him (and this fast) if she knew straight up that he was “off the market” in her eyes. To my understanding, that was one hell of an argument. She flat out told him he was being “selfish” and “deceived” her for what he wanted (which I agree), while never making any of this an option for her.
Well, too late, she has stayed with him for the past three years and blames herself for that choice. She’s just not strong enough to leave him. It’s just not all about love. They have survived a number of tragedies together which has built this intense bond between them both. If anything, I know the two of them will remain friends if or when they ever go their separate ways (that choice is theirs, not mine o’ might message board)…
Deep down inside he knows he is cheating her out of a life he knows she wants (but it is not like he begs her to stay or like she is going anywhere either). Nobody in this relationship wants to be the one to break the others heart. It a cope out, a poor excuse and yet the saddest story I have ever heard. Even though I don’t understand the politics of an open marriage, I do understand trying to leave somebody your madly in love with to try to find your own happiness. For lack of anything intelligent to say, that just sucks.
p.s. I have so much ice-cream in my fridge! Ya’ll better come over and help me eat some. 
Nah.
Don’t buy it. I mean I can hear the swooping violins but I’m enough of a pragmatist that if she were my friend, I’d tell her to deal with it and choose to be happy or move on and choose to be happy. But all the grand sweeping romance? Horse shit.
That’s me, I demand honesty from my lovers and I am honest with them in return. Go figure.
In which case, that truly sucks. It’s twerps like that who give the rest of us a bad name.
I know that I am not qualified to judge others’ relationships, and I know that you have said that you like him and believe in their relationship, but I have to say that in my experience dishonesty of that magnitude is rarely an isolated incident. If he went this far to get her into this relationship, what else will he do? And how many others is he lying to and/or about?
I wouldn’t be so casual about such an invitation with this crowd. 
mischievous
Sorry Stiffler’s Mom, I stand by my statements. In fact, you just made them more valid. A relationship of one entire month completely built on lies and she loves him so much she can’t leave? I am not judging her. I am not saying that she doesn’t or didn’t love him. I am not saying she is a bad person (although at this point he is questionable). I am saying that because of that and other things you have mentioned it sounds like she has major self esteem issues.
The whole ‘open’ thing just isn’t for me. Maybe some of you like it and can deal with it. More power to you. I can’t.
If I started dating a woman and a month later she told me she was married and it was ‘open’, I’d be a little miffed.
Of course, I wouldn’t see her again.
I am in an open marriage (not ‘free love’ in our case! we have zero casual sex!) and I’m not getting the short end of the stick, though I can well believe that is often the case.
In the case of my husband and I, this was a concept we agreed on before we even talked about marrying each other. For us, it works something like this:
We love each other to the point of not even being able to comprehend life apart. We are totally devoted to each other and to our son. We have a very strong family, and it is like most families in almost every way. However, we don’t think that love or romantic feelings are something that must be repressed for everyone else. Dating another man doesn’t make me feel any less love for my husband. Same for him dating another woman. Since neither of us see any reason to halt a relationship if it heads in that direction, we don’t. Nor do we consider marriage to be “just like dating except you own each other” nor just “someone you get to have sex with forever”. We don’t consider sex to be a major factor in marriage. People often ask “why bother to get married?” which I consider to be a pretty lame question. We are a family. We got married for all of the same reasons people everywhere get married… except those who got married for the exclusive sex–which is a pretty sad reason to get married.
A few things that are important to consider:
- neither of us goes out looking for dates. When we’ve dated other people it’s always been someone who we met as a friend and then things naturally progressed into romance.
- neither of us has casual sex or unprotected sex with anyone else. When we date other people, it’s a relationship not a “sex thing”.
- it isn’t a constant revolving door of lovers. I’ve dated a very small handful of men, and he has dated a very small handful of women in the 11 years that we’ve been married. (however, one of my boyfriends lasted 4 years, and actually lived with us for about 6 months.)
- everyone we’ve dated has completely understood the situation. No one is getting hurt.
That’s just bullshit and dishonest. He had no right to put her in that position.
raises hand
Does 11 years count as “does work”? We’re closer now than we were when we got married, and we’ll be together until we die. That’s pretty much a foregone conclusion.
[btw, of the 4 friends’ marriages we’ve gone to since we got married, 2 have ended in divorce. Those were all traditional marriages.]
[another btw, I’m not at all saying that a lot of open marriages aren’t crap. A lot of marriages in general are crap, and an open marriage takes a certain type of person on both sides. They aren’t for everyone.]
I won’t argue that often the third person isn’t. In my own experience, only one of the guys I dated found he didn’t like the situation, and so we ended that and it was quite amicable. The other guys I’ve dated have been quite happy. One relationship lasted 4 years, another over a year…
Also, we didn’t exclude them from parts of our lives… they were there for birthdays, Christmas, etc. I can understand especially that someone might not be happy if they are discarded for the “important family times”…
And just to clarify (not related to either of the above quotes) I certainly don’t think that being any part of an open marriage is for everyone. Not even for most people. I think it’s a fairly small percentage that it would work for, but for those for whom it does work, it quite legitimately can. I get very frustrated with people who say that my marriage vows were meaningless to me (they don’t even know what my marriage vows were) or that we don’t really love each other, or that our marriage is somehow less than “real” marriages, etc. If it doesn’t work for you, fine. It does work for me and it’s not your place to pass judgement on my marriage. [/soapbox]