Yeah I guess the real key here is less whether the man actually places the order and more whether he decides the order (without permission). If the actual tradition was just that the woman told the man what she wanted and he relayed that to the waiter, that’s a little bit less egregious. I could swear tho, that I’ve seen in movies where the man orders for the woman (especially in a first date type situation rather than a married couple situation) without any consultation whatsoever, but then, that could be an artifact of film clichés.
I’m male and I hardly ever do the ordering when I am with one person. Once I’ve discussed what I’m having with whoever I am eating with I leave it up to them, male or female. I guess it’s because I just have what’s on the menu as is and lots of people seem to find it necessary to have lengthy conversations with the waiter about how things are prepared or presented. So I leave them to it.
Most of the time, my date ordering for me would be a definite turnoff.
The exceptions would be if I was leaving the table temporarily before ordering or a cuisine that I hadn’t tried before that he had. In either of those situations, the reverse could also hold true and I would be ok ordering for him.
I occasionally end up ordering for a few my friends. It is with their consent. Issues like they are not available to order for some reason, not there yet, taking a phone call, entertaining the kid etc. They will have either told me what they want or I am ordering what they usually get.
The other situation that comes up is a friend wanting a change to a plate and they are uncomfortable defining it to the waiter ie he’ll be getting the spaghetti but with alfredo sauce instead of the marinara.
But nothing like the OP describes that sounds rude and condescending.
Ok then., this is a new one for me .
(Mini bump) How do you think you’d go tomorrow night at the restaurant, given two menu’s, one of which didn’t have prices on it?
I can’t even begin to imagine what that would be like nowadays…
I like when my boyfriend orders for me, but I can’t really explain why. Somehow it contributes to the feeling of being taken care of, I guess. That doesn’t make much sense, but it’s the best way I can think to describe it.
If it were a first date and he didn’t know me, or ordered without knowing what I’d want, it’d be different. I think it started when we’d been together for about a year and he ordered nachos or something for us to share. He asked for no guacamole (I’m allergic to avocados) without me saying anything, and it was a nice feeling. He knew me and remembered something important about me, and the feeling stuck.
It makes total sense to me. He makes the world a safe place for you. He listened to you, he knows what you want, and he takes care of it for you. If you and he were set upon by a big hungry cat, you can count on a guy like that to handle the situation.
I get it.
Back in the 60s my dad used to order for Mom and the two boys. This was to teach us how gentlemen act. We always got exactly what we wanted and were consulted. But children being children, we quickly demanded the power to order for ourselves and got it. We were also told that some restaurants had priceless menus for the ladies. In fact, I was in a club in San Francisco in 1988 (Banker’s Club) where the guests did not see prices at all. That is also common at country clubs.
But the world has changed. Sauron seeks the one ring and some womyn don’t like having doors held for them. The time of the Eldar is at an end.
As an experiment, I’m going to make a point of ordering for my wife (and any other un-accompanied women that might be dining with us) and see what happens. We don’t eat out often, so don’t hold your breath for updates.
In a posh restaurant, especially of the French variety, and especially with a lady who doesn’t speak French, I’ll discuss the menu with her and when she’s chosen, I’ll ask “Shall I order for us both?”–if she’s okay with that, and gives me permission, I’ll do so. If she says, “Nah, I can handle this shit just fine all by my lonesome,” I’m fine with that.
I’d be turned on as hell if my date ordered for me without consultation. But, I’m kinda weird. I’m a guy.
As to the OP: when you are seeing it in the movies, they have just cut out the part where the woman has already told the man what she wants. Or it is cheeky James Bond style when he is just trying to showoff how much he knows about the woman.
When we were dating, I told my now-husband what I wanted and he ordered it when the waiter came. But he was buying then, too. In other contexts, IME anyway, usually the host of a party orders for the table or indicates that people are going to order for themselves, usually by ordering their own meal and looking at the next person.
I don’t recall ever having thought about it to be honest.
Oh, by the way, I meant to say thanks for the veal.
According to my grandmother and great aunts in their young days one of the nice girl rules was to ask your date to order for you with the comment “choose whatever you think I would like.” It was suppose to show how ladies weren’t interested in the meal, but the company of the gentlemen. The real reason was no one wanted to embarass the gentlemen or themselves by ordering something he could not afford.
Minor hijack: How does one refer to the females in the group? I don’t like to say ‘She’ll" have something, because my crew considers calling a female ‘she’ fightin’ words. What if there are more than one? Does one point? What is correct?
Sorry for the hijack, and thanks,
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Maybe she didn’t walk out, but she might have been seething inside about this, unless you had her permission to do something like this. It’s not chivalrous, and many women DO see it as patronizing. Most of us put up with a lot of things that men think are chivalrous and are not happy about it, but we don’t always make a fuss about it, either.
This is about right. Many places have items that vary considerably in price, from a grilled cheese sandwich for the kids to the surf’n’turf, so a meal might cost five bucks, or nearly a hundred, depending on the meal and the booze that was ordered.
I was taught that the woman should tell the man what she wanted, and the man passed the order on to the server. Apparently, women speak in tones that the typical server cannot hear, or something. Nowadays, it seems that the accepted practice is for women to order first, giving their orders directly to the server. After the adult women have ordered, then the girls, then the boys, then the man or men. I guess this is so the man/men can add up all the totals in their heads, and figure out whether they can afford to get the surf’n’turf, or need to order the grilled cheese sandwich.
Around here, too, the server will almost ALWAYS try to deposit the check in front of my husband when we go out together. When I go out with my female friend, the check is deposited precisely between us. The server frequently looks surprised when I hold out my hand for the check when I’m with my husband.
I know what you mean. I like it too.
Agreed. When my husband and I go out, usually I’m the one who “pays” even though it comes out of our joint account. I’m better doing math in my head, so I’m better at figuring out the tip, so I’m the one that fills it out. There have been times where I’ve put my card in the holder, and it’s still been returned to my husband. I’m sorry, he doesn’t have a girl’s name. And it’s not like my name is a unisex name… or even close. It’s one thing to be traditional. It’s another to be dense. Read the darned card and give it back to the owner. If it were a group of men, I have no doubt the server would make sure “Bob” got it instead of “Dan.” But if Bob and “Mary” are on a date, suddenly it always goes to Bob? Good grief.
Yeah, it would piss me off, but I would probably not make a big deal about it at the time. OTOH, it would make me wonder how far this patronising attitude would extend to other things in life.
I don’t quite get why it’s chivalrous off the bat. What exactly is it meant to protect me from, or how is it meant to assist me? I get some of the other posters mentioning that they don’t want to deal with a complex order, but that would be a fairly specific reason someone would ask you to do it. I don’t quite get why you’d assume this would be the case for all women.
(Lucky I’m shacked up already huh! Tough date.)
Well, you know, they’re whispering from behind a fan or a gloved hand or something.