Absolutely sickening. I hoped the 20-25 bodies reported yesterday was an exaggeration and now…
the man is clearly delusional though, he tried to get someone to start an extremely “conservative” newspaper and expected to get 200 000 readers because
“there are 15 liberal/socialist/cultural/multikulti newspapers, a conservative paper MUST be a success.”
but that has nothing to do with “killing lots of people and getting locked up” grade crazy
The alleged killer couldn’t possibly have been a neo-Nazi: He described himself repeatedly as “pro-Israel” (as well as “pro-gay,” for that matter). Not a Nazi.
You’re right about the other stuff though: Hated Muslims, hated immigrants, hated the political left.
Just terrible, this. I’ve been calling friends in Oslo all day.
Toxic ideologies can allow sane individuals to rationalize monstrous acts.
The guy might seem “chillingly rational”, but just because he’s not babbling or incoherent, that doesn’t mean he’s not insane. Someone who is capable of this kind of thing must surely be totally lacking in empathy, just for starters. Witnesses describe him as calmly walking around the island, in no hurry, picking people off. There is such a thing as *too *rational, too lacking in emotion - in a way, that’s what psychopathy is. Of course, even psycopaths don’t usually go on killing sprees.
As mentioned earlier, mass murderers are rarely caught alive - now that we have one, maybe we can get some answers.
In any case, I don’t see this guy ever getting out into the sunlight again. Technically the maximum prison sentence is 21 years, but for the perpetrator of the world’s worst ever mass shooting? Come on. As mentioned, we have two types of confinement we can potentially slap him with, and if we need a third one, we’ll create it. He’ll stay locked up. I think that’s pretty much a foregone conclusion.
When we left home this morning, the death toll was at 17. When we came home this evening, it was up to 92. Damn. Any more word on this second person arrested or reports of a second gunman?
Not some sort of Nazi- I believe he could be called something like ethnicity-isolationist fascist-libertarian-Christian if that makes any sort of sense.
he wants cultures to remain (and return to) where they “belong” is for forced economic and social conservatism and wants to outlaw political opinions left of the Norwegian right.
he claims to be a follower of the Vienna school of thought, I dont know much about that. sounds roughly libertarian
he talks about marxists infiltrating newspapers and other NGOs and about reclaiming control of 30 NGOs.
He wants Norway to collectively turn to Catholicism because protestantism is too soft.
[QUOTE=Martian Bigfoot]
As mentioned, we have two types of confinement we can potentially slap him with, and if we need a third one, we’ll create it.
[/QUOTE]
If a third type of punishment (what exactly? “Special time for bad people”?) were created now, it could not be applied retroactively.
It is now that our convictions as a free society are tested. If we allow this man to change us, he will have won. We as a people decided that 21 years is the most we can give, no matter what the crime. That is still true today, and that is still the right and proper way, not matter what this man did.
We are better than this. We are a democracy, we are a free people. We will not allow this person to sacrifice himself by changing us.
“We will not be bombed to silence, we will not be shot to silence.”
This is the kind of thing you might read in a novel but don’t expect to happen in real life because it’s so crazy. Reading the death toll this moring was bad enough but the details of his plan, like telling the kids they were safe because the gunman had been caught and then shooting them, are horrifying. I don’t know what to say except my thoughts are with everyone in Norway.
quoted for truth
This is exactly how I’ve been feeling.
shamelessly stolen from a guy on facebook: “preventive detention” is the best legal translation, I believe. The best way I’ve heard to explain the difference between the Norwegian and US ways of determining prison-terms is that in Norway, you serve time for all your crimes concurrently, rather than in serial.
The perpetrator of these acts should, in my opinion, never see the outside of prison walls once he is convicted. I would have him grow old and die in prison. But I am not Norwegian. Whatever penalty is applied must be decided by the Norwegian people and their lawmakers. If it’s 21 years, then that’s what it is.
Hear, hear.
Good for him.
Canada, UK and Wales have an option of designating someone a Dangerous Offender where the criminal is remanded indefinitely - I’m guessing something like that will be applied to him. If nothing else, his life is over the minute he leaves custody, I would guess.
A quote from Breivik’s twitter account -
That’s fitting with what we speculate about him.
Isn’t that the whole laissez-faire Austrian school of economics.
And I see that the quote is taken from John Stuart Mill - “One person with a belief is equal to ninety-nine who have only interests.”
If you don’t allow his actions to change you then he has won.
concurrently serving sentences does not make sense. I can understand the idea of proportional intent (drunk driver kills 5 people in a car) but in this case he willful committed multiple, independent, acts of murder.
A law without proportion makes allowances for and encourages leverage. If this isn’t a learning experience then another will present itself.
What a stupid thing to say. There is no “winning” here. He did an awful thing, and now everyone has to cope with the aftermath. Going around blatting about how this is a “learning experience” is just…just stop. Stop.
I keep reading news stories, hoping to find that the death toll has been corrected to something “reasonable”. This is so awful I can’t imagine. My prayers are with Norway.
I admire the bravery of the Norwegian people in holding to their love of democracy and the rule of law, and in refusing to bow down to terrorists.