Exactly. Every generation parents a little differently. The idea that “you’re doing what your parents did and what their grandparents did” is just laughable. We all swear up and down we won’t make the same mistakes our parents made - and then go on to make mistakes of our own. It’s a pendulum that constantly swings back and forth. We’re probably actually guilty of parenting more like our great-great grandparents when it comes down to it, only we don’t know them well enough to know that.
No kidding, in the 40 years I’ve been alive we’ve gone from “spanking is a normal part of raising kids” to “a swat on the butt is child abuse” and we seem to be swinging back - its more “acceptable” now than it seems to have been to give the swat - but not use the belt.
You pick your battles, but you don’t “avoid” the tantrum if that is a battle you’ve picked. I don’t like my kids chewing gum - especially the sugary stuff they want at the checkout line - so its “no” every time - even if I know that my daughter is on the verge of losing it. That may mean she loses it in Target for the few minutes it takes me to check out - and I’m sorry - but she isn’t going to learn that she gets gum because she is in a fragile state.
The idea that you can negotiate, rationalize and use logic on a toddler is laughable - but to give the OP credit, a laughable idea I thought was reasonable until I had kids - those skills don’t develop until later. At seven we can USUALLY use logic and compromise. At two it was all about THEM and NOW. Small kids are like dogs, rewards and corrections need to be immediate and relevant and consistant - and I wish I’d understood that when they were fourteen months. There is no “do this now and you can have this later” for the average two year old - maybe for some of them, but neither of mine.
And *this *thread shows what happens when indigo kids get old enough to join message boards. :rolleyes:
Three words: Flintstones Chewable Valium.
(If it’s not on the market, it should be!)
No one else was struck by this?
A five year old and a one year old: Nine hours straight in the house, parked in front of the TV, while you and your friends play computer games the whole time, and you wonder why there were behavior issues the second their parents came home?
I suppose we can’t assume you meant to include: “And then I put the baby down for a nap”; “And then we turned the TV and computer off and went outside for a walk / to ride bikes / to play on the swing set”; “And then we turned the TV and computer off and went into the kitchen and had a nice lunch”; and/or “And then we turned the TV and computer off and played with the kids for a couple hours”.
I’d suggest you work on your basic babysitting skills before you take issue with anyone else’s parenting skills. But the whole “we want what we need and we need what we want” thing was definitely worth a giggle.
Well, yeah. And: what you said.
Everything s/he said is so ridiculous, I figured it’s gotta be somebody just trying to play us.
Yeah, what I’m taking from this thread is essentially that Fox Frenzy’s parenting philosophy consists of: “You should do anything and everything possible to make sure that kids are quiet and don’t cry, including parking them in front of a television set for nine hours straight and instantly giving in to all demands in grocery stores and other public places.”
My goals as a parent include more than just making sure my kids don’t bug other people at the grocery store. Your mileage, of course, may vary.
In the OP’s defense, though, I also thought a lot of really dumb things about children and parenting before I had kids of my own. And I did a lot of babysitting, as well, and was surrounded by younger siblings and cousins when I was growing up. There are some things that just don’t make sense until you actually experience them.
Wow. I skimmed that paragraph and didn’t read it properly at all. That’s amazing; no wonder the kids fell apart. Dude, kids need to run around! TV puts them in a bad mood a lot of the time! Also, feeding them good meals at decent intervals is important.
For me, the most difficult part of discipline so far is getting our 20 month old to sit quietly. As a parent, you can easily not give in to his tantruming because you have physical control over the little fellow - for example, if he doesn’t want to come in after playing outside, you can pick him up and deposit him inside; if you don’t want to give him an object he’s yelling for, you can deny him that object.
However, it is different thing keeping him quiet. You can’t actually force a toddler to stop yelling, particularly when tired, bored or frustrated.
I just came back from a bit of a road trip, which required us to eat in restaurants sometimes, and this was often a difficulty - the child would be happy when he’s getting fed, but one fed you could almost see his batteries revving - he’d want to work off all that food energy by running around; sitting still and being quiet are often not on his agenda.
Our strategy for dealing with this is three-fold: toys, books, and walks. Essentially, we would work in relays, one of us either feeding or distracting him, or if all else fails taking him out of the restaurant if he was being noisy or disruptive; and the other eating/paying, etc.
I’m not sure what else we could do. You can’t just let him yell, as it would not be fair to the other people in the restaurant; neither can you allow a toddler to run around disturbing people; and there is no way to force a toddler to be quiet (at least, any I’d contemplate). Any parents want to chime in on how they dealt with this? I sometimes fear that we may be catering to him too much in this case (we are trying to be firm and never give in to tantrums).
I noticed it too, but thought–I have stuff to do today; I’m not going there…
Your missing the fact that babysitting isn’t a 24x7 job. That you aren’t responsible for turning the kid you babysit into a functioning adult who doesn’t go for instant gratification, but holds a job and leaves your house. That kids often behave MUCH differently for strangers than for their parents.
Oh, don’t paint all baby boomers with that brush. Baby boomers invented the technology that subsequent generations are using and expanding on. Boomers are some of the people most comfortable with change and challenge - after all, that’s the “coming of age in the 1960s” generation.
I just wanted to point out the inconsistency here–if you really are “born smarter,” and able to “adapt more quickly,” then why haven’t you used those skills to learn how to change your own oil, and then actually do it? It’s an absurdly simple procedure; requiring no special skills or knowledge. Why can you not learn it?
Now, if you prefer not to learn and do such things, that’s fine also. But merely preferring to spend your time in front of a computer doesn’t necessarily make you smarter than those who prefer to spend their time working on cars, or on other non-computer-related activities. People your parents’ age aren’t totally in the dark when it comes to computers; but perhaps they have better things to do than just sit at a computer. I’m also intrigued by these statements:
Well, whose fault is that? Your parents, for not buying you a European trip and teaching you good social skills (i.e. “how to play well with others”); or your own, for not seizing the opportunities that you’ve undoubtedly had over the past couple of years to travel, to be around others in bars, nightclubs, etc.? Pick up the phone (or better yet, use that computer you’re so good with) and book yourself a trip, sign up for a course in auto mechanics, or find out what restaurants and bars you might like to visit. Again, it’s up to you to determine what you want and need, and other things may be more to your liking. But if you’re a “total putz in public” then you may want to work on that before you pat yourself on the back for being so tech-savvy. There are more people on this earth than computers, and you would do well to learn how to interact with them. I’m sure you can do it; after all, aren’t you able to “adapt more quickly”? Besides, at age 24, it’s up to you to fulfil such an objective; it’s not your parents’ responsibility any more.
See, this is what I don’t get: you argue upthread that parents can avoid problems by giving in to their children’s demands. Now, I have no children either, so you and I are in pretty much the same boat when it comes to parenting tips. But it would seem to me that if any parents gave in to their kids as you suggest, buying them whatever the kids feel they want and feel they need (your words, paraphrased), then it’s no wonder that they’re lost in their early 20s, when their parents stop buying for them, and they must satisfy their wants and needs themselves.
But I’d guess that only some of your generation are as lost as you are. Perhaps if you got out and actually mingled with a wide cross-section of your age group in a variety of settings, you might come to the realization that some of them are actually pretty dumb. Some are smarter than you are. Some don’t give a damn for computers, while others care for nothing but. And some can actually change their own oil. Take a good look at all of your contemporaries first, and then come back here and tell us how much smarter and able to adapt your generation is. Hey, then we might even see your argument in a little better light.
20 months is a tough age for restaurants. We essentially quit going to restaurants for a little while around the time Whatsit Jr. was that age. That having been said, there are things you can do to make it go more smoothly. In a non-road-trip situation, make sure the child is not tired or starving to death when you get to the restaurant. I usually try to keep some saltines or granola bars around. It seems counter-intuitive to feed a child a snack when you’re at a restaurant about to eat dinner, but sometimes it takes a while before the food shows up, and if you have an overly hungry child, that child will melt down while you’re waiting. Also, make sure the kid got plenty of running around time earlier in the day, and they’ll be more likely to tolerate an hour or so of sitting down at a restaurant.
Now, to the topic of road trips. When possible, eat at the McDonald’s or Burger King with a play area. Forget your noble ideas about only eating locally, avoiding fast food, or not contributing to the McDonald’s hegemon; the play area will allow you to eat your food in relative peace while still giving your kid(s) a chance to run around and blow off steam. Failing that, see if you can find a neighborhood playground or something in the vicinity of the restaurant, and give the kid some play time there before you stop for food. Adds time to the road trip, but is totally worth it for avoiding restaurant meltdowns. And then, what you described as far as taking the child out of the restaurant tag-team style if the kid melts down anyway, is a good solution that we have used on many an occasion.
We also used to let MiniWhatsit play with the sugar/sweetener packets at the table. She’d make a big mess dumping them out and sorting them by color, etc., but it kept her quiet and happy while the rest of us ate.
Oh, the other thing you are missing is that parents get “well intentioned” advice from all over the place - people who are “experts” like their pediatrician or parenting magazines. Their experienced friends and relatives, strangers on the street. And they make their own decisions for what is best for their family. What they learn quickly - somewhere between “showing” when they are told “you ARE going to breastfeed, right?” and a year “That baby should be eating more table food by now!” or two “what do you mean he isn’t potty trained, why all my kids potty trained by eighteen months using Dr. Stewarts ‘tie them to the chair until they poop’ method and we never had any problems!” is that the advice - even from experts and experienced parents, needs to go through the filter. And anything coming from someone whose experience is “I’ve babysat, so I know what I’m talking about” doesn’t pass the filter. (Half the stuff from my mother and my pediatrician doesn’t pass the filter).
It isn’t you, someday you may have kids and you’ll look back at your “not ignorantly young” 24 year old self and have a good laugh. Most of us laugh about how we “thought” we’d parent back before we actually HAD to do it.
Ms.Whatsit is right. Playgrounds are awesome, and I don’t for the life of me understand why rest-stop McDonaldses don’t have them. The result? We don’t go to rest stop McDonalds, we go 10 miles further, exit at a real road, drive another mile and go to a regular McDonalds. This was a total revelation to me the first time I thought of it! Seriously! I was so conditioned into thinking that road trip = rest stop food, and it just didn’t occur to me that the McDonald’s inside Podunk, Indiana might have a playground, even though the rest stop between Bumfuck and Podunk didn’t. :smack:
If you want more grownup fare and you happen to be in the IL area, Leona’s is a great little Italian American joint with movie theater/playrooms for the kids.
Sugar packets are good. When they get a bit older, make a math game out of it: there’s a pile of sugar packets, and we each take turns taking packets. On each turn, we can take 1,2 or 3 packets. The person to take the last packet loses the game. It helps simple counting, of course, but there’s actual strategy involved to force the other guy to take the last one.
Other “restaurant games”:
Comb and Cards. Keep a cheap pocket comb in your purse or diaper bag. Give the comb to the kid with all your business cards and store discount cards and let the kid shove cards into the comb so they stand up. This is terribly exciting when you’re two.
Stacking Creamers. Build a tower of those little creamer cups. Yeah, they’ll fall down. That’s the point, silly!
Creepy Mousy. Use your fingers as “legs” and crawl your hand across the table, repeating “Creepy mousy, creepy mousy, creepy mousy’s gonna GETCHA!” with a little lunge and belly tickle or nose tweak at the end. This, apparently, is hilarious for a toddler.
And, when all else fails:
**
Tissue Explosion**. Bring along a box of facial tissues and let the little hobgoblin pluck them out of the box, one after the other. This is good for up to 25 minutes of uninterrupted grown up conversation, if you don’t use it too often. Bring a couple of plastic grocery bags along to shove the tissues into when the food comes. (And if you ask nicely, the waitress will give you a 2-minute warning before bringing out your food.)
I hope FF changed that baby’s diaper.
But DON’T let them EAT THE SUGAR!!!
signed,
an experienced accompanied-by-kids- traveller
I totally agree with Jodi here - nine hours of TV is lot, even for an adult. The APA recommends no TV for kids under two and only 30 minutes to an hour for kids over three if memory serves. And isn’t Spiderman 2 kind of violent for such young children, particularly a one-year old?
And not interacting with them seems a tad on the negligent side. I also find it hard to believe that a one-year old and a five-year old wouldn’t try to get your attention at some point.
And with respect to the above-quoted paragraph, it’s pretty common for kids to lose it when their parents return from work. My child did up until two weeks ago. The general idea is that in a secure, loving relationship, the parent will love the kid unconditionally; therefore, the child tends to exhibit best behavior to non-parents and often loses it with the parent. After all, they’ve been good all day. Most parenting books discuss this phenomenon.
I agree with the McDonalds’ advice, and I would also say that it’s asking an awful lot of a toddler to sit in a car all day and then sit nicely in a restaurant. In such a case, it’s important to schedule in time for him to run around when he needs it. Meltdowns in situations like that aren’t the kid being ornery because he’s spoiled; he’s falling apart because his whole routine is screwed up and he’s not coping well with all the demands being made on him. There’s a time to put your kid on your bed and shut the door while he yells, and there’s a time to take him outside and snuggle him and help him calm down.
So my method would be: pack good snacks, stop every so often at a highway rest stop and let him run around on the grass, and do the PlayPlace thing (and no soda!). It’s slow and frustrating, but at least he will get some of what he needs. And if you can get to someplace with grass and some open area, that will really help.
Hope that wasn’t too rambly.