Parent/Toddler Tantrums Tip Tempers

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
61

[QUOTE=MsWhatsit]
20 months is a tough age for restaurants. We essentially quit going to restaurants for a little while around the time Whatsit Jr. was that age. That having been said, there are things you can do to make it go more smoothly. In a non-road-trip situation, make sure the child is not tired or starving to death when you get to the restaurant. I usually try to keep some saltines or granola bars around. It seems counter-intuitive to feed a child a snack when you’re at a restaurant about to eat dinner, but sometimes it takes a while before the food shows up, and if you have an overly hungry child, that child will melt down while you’re waiting. Also, make sure the kid got plenty of running around time earlier in the day, and they’ll be more likely to tolerate an hour or so of sitting down at a restaurant.

Now, to the topic of road trips. When possible, eat at the McDonald’s or Burger King with a play area. Forget your noble ideas about only eating locally, avoiding fast food, or not contributing to the McDonald’s hegemon; the play area will allow you to eat your food in relative peace while still giving your kid(s) a chance to run around and blow off steam. Failing that, see if you can find a neighborhood playground or something in the vicinity of the restaurant, and give the kid some play time there before you stop for food. Adds time to the road trip, but is totally worth it for avoiding restaurant meltdowns. And then, what you described as far as taking the child out of the restaurant tag-team style if the kid melts down anyway, is a good solution that we have used on many an occasion.

We also used to let MiniWhatsit play with the sugar/sweetener packets at the table. She’d make a big mess dumping them out and sorting them by color, etc., but it kept her quiet and happy while the rest of us ate.
[/QUOTE]

Thanks!

I’m not sure I’ll be able to implement the McDonalds suggestion - I’d do it in a shot, but Mrs. Malthus is adamant that our little man will not eat such fare.

One thing we did make sure to do, was to stop off at local playgrounds as often as possible. Also, we tried to time the long stretches of driving with his afternoon nap. We also generally pack plenty of drinks and snacks.

I like the idea of the sugar packets. We did something similar with plasic cups and the tops off of our juice bottles - he loved playing with them, gave us some time.

I’m glad to hear that the tag-teaming thing isn’t some unique folly of our own!

62

[QUOTE=WhyNot]
Ms.Whatsit is right. Playgrounds are awesome, and I don’t for the life of me understand why rest-stop McDonaldses don’t have them. The result? We don’t go to rest stop McDonalds, we go 10 miles further, exit at a real road, drive another mile and go to a regular McDonalds. This was a total revelation to me the first time I thought of it! Seriously! I was so conditioned into thinking that road trip = rest stop food, and it just didn’t occur to me that the McDonald’s inside Podunk, Indiana might have a playground, even though the rest stop between Bumfuck and Podunk didn’t. :smack:

If you want more grownup fare and you happen to be in the IL area, Leona’s is a great little Italian American joint with movie theater/playrooms for the kids.

Sugar packets are good. When they get a bit older, make a math game out of it: there’s a pile of sugar packets, and we each take turns taking packets. On each turn, we can take 1,2 or 3 packets. The person to take the last packet loses the game. It helps simple counting, of course, but there’s actual strategy involved to force the other guy to take the last one.

Other “restaurant games”:

Comb and Cards. Keep a cheap pocket comb in your purse or diaper bag. Give the comb to the kid with all your business cards and store discount cards and let the kid shove cards into the comb so they stand up. This is terribly exciting when you’re two.

Stacking Creamers. Build a tower of those little creamer cups. Yeah, they’ll fall down. That’s the point, silly!

Creepy Mousy. Use your fingers as “legs” and crawl your hand across the table, repeating “Creepy mousy, creepy mousy, creepy mousy’s gonna GETCHA!” with a little lunge and belly tickle or nose tweak at the end. This, apparently, is hilarious for a toddler.

And, when all else fails:
**
Tissue Explosion**. Bring along a box of facial tissues and let the little hobgoblin pluck them out of the box, one after the other. This is good for up to 25 minutes of uninterrupted grown up conversation, if you don’t use it too often. Bring a couple of plastic grocery bags along to shove the tissues into when the food comes. (And if you ask nicely, the waitress will give you a 2-minute warning before bringing out your food.)
[/QUOTE]

Woah, those are some good ideas. I’m writing 'em down! Keep 'em comming! :slight_smile:

63

[QUOTE=Malthus]
Thanks!

I’m not sure I’ll be able to implement the McDonalds suggestion - I’d do it in a shot, but Mrs. Malthus is adamant that our little man will not eat such fare.

One thing we did make sure to do, was to stop off at local playgrounds as often as possible. Also, we tried to time the long stretches of driving with his afternoon nap. We also generally pack plenty of drinks and snacks.

I like the idea of the sugar packets. We did something similar with plasic cups and the tops off of our juice bottles - he loved playing with them, gave us some time.

I’m glad to hear that the tag-teaming thing isn’t some unique folly of our own!
[/QUOTE]

I have a friend who is about as “vegetarian, anti-corporation” as you can get. She has discovered “you can’t fight McDonalds.” I have another friend who is also vegetarian and her husband HATES McDonalds - she still takes the kids there for playland and lets them eat side salads - its the SAHMommy playdate of choice. If you don’t expose your kid to it, grandma will, or they’ll get it on a playdate or a fieldtrip at school. Your best bet may be to expose them to it judiciously - they WILL eat such fare unless you have them under your constant supervision.

Now, I think its Shirley Ujest who points out what little germ factories these places are - and kids eating greasy french fries while simultaneously crawling through the playland tube system is rather gross.

64

[QUOTE=Malthus]
I’m glad to hear that the tag-teaming thing isn’t some unique folly of our own!
[/QUOTE]

My parents did this, back in the Stone Age when we were kids. They said that for about six years, they never had a meal together with kids in a restaurant – one would eat and the other would be outside walking the kid(s) around or distracting them. Then they’d switch off. And I should clarify that they did not accept such behavior in kids up to the age of six, but my sister is 18 months older than me and my brother is a year younger, so there was about a six year period in which they had at least one kid under the age of about three.

Mostly, they just didn’t eat out much during that period, because it wasn’t fun. Now, I’m the auntie and I’m happy to be the one who takes the babies/toddlers outside and entertains them, because I know their parents need the break and I don’t get to spend enough time with the kids anyway.

But IM limited and admittedly second-hand E, the behavior you’re describing is not uncommon or unreasonable in a child that age. They just can’t sit still that long, and they need to be entertained. As a fellow diner (childless), I strongly prefer parents who distract and entertain their kids quietly, and then take them out when that stops working (which it will). There’s nothing so annoying as trying to eat with a screaming kid at the next table.

65

[QUOTE=Fox Frenzy]
Was I unclear here or..is there another version of English I haven’t picked up on yet.
[/QUOTE]

You’re not unclear, you’re just completely and totally wrong. That’s all.

66

[QUOTE=Dangerosa]
I have a friend who is about as “vegetarian, anti-corporation” as you can get. She has discovered “you can’t fight McDonalds.” I have another friend who is also vegetarian and her husband HATES McDonalds - she still takes the kids there for playland and lets them eat side salads - its the SAHMommy playdate of choice. If you don’t expose your kid to it, grandma will, or they’ll get it on a playdate or a fieldtrip at school. Your best bet may be to expose them to it judiciously - they WILL eat such fare unless you have them under your constant supervision.

Now, I think its Shirley Ujest who points out what little germ factories these places are - and kids eating greasy french fries while simultaneously crawling through the playland tube system is rather gross.
[/QUOTE]

You are preaching to the converted - I’d have him happily playing in McDees over being frustrated at a better restaurant any day of the week, but Mrs. Malthus feels strongly about it, not because she dislikes McDees as an evil corporation, but rather because she believes that their food is bad for you. In my opinion, a little bit can’t hurt.

67

[QUOTE=Malthus]
Woah, those are some good ideas. I’m writing 'em down! Keep 'em comming! :slight_smile:
[/QUOTE]

Then don’t do McD’s. We ate at quite a few Steak 'N Shakes on the road-kid friendly, no playground, though. For in the car, there are silly songs, I-spy games (kids love to stump you–we always played for stuff inside the car), 20 questions, A my name is Adam, read alouds, books on tape are also good (for the kids). Pack your patience and realize that you don’t have anything else you could be doing, so live for the moment.

Re restaurants: I liked to talk to the kids about what we’d seen. What was your favorite thing today is good for about 3 year olds and up. For littler ones, I did games much like WhyNot describes, but my kids also were allowed to bring a SMALL toy (matchbox car, Polly Pocket type thing) to the table. We had these little kit-like things from Disney. Aladin’s was the palace and it opened up and had 3 figures inside-Aladin, Jasmine and someone else. It was compact, quiet–no electronic stuff was allowed at the table–still isn’t–and helped immensely. It was only brought out for restaurants. We always tag teamed it with kids that age. Even taking a wee one over to where they can see the trucks on the highway is a treat for them, stretches their legs just a bit and spins out time waiting for food. (I mean to the window inside the restaurant–not the edge of the highway!)

Don’t underestimate paper and pen. You can draw puppet figures and have them act out a mini Punch and Judy show. You can give the paper and pen to the kids etc. You can play tictactoe, hangman-whatever. Lots of ways to pass the time.

68

[QUOTE=Jodi]
My parents did this, back in the Stone Age when we were kids. They said that for about six years, they never had a meal together with kids in a restaurant – one would eat and the other would be outside walking the kid(s) around or distracting them. Then they’d switch off. And I should clarify that they did not accept such behavior in kids up to the age of six, but my sister is 18 months older than me and my brother is a year younger, so there was about a six year period in which they had at least one kid under the age of about three.

Mostly, they just didn’t eat out much during that period, because it wasn’t fun. Now, I’m the auntie and I’m happy to be the one who takes the babies/toddlers outside and entertains them, because I know their parents need the break and I don’t get to spend enough time with the kids anyway.

But IM limited and admittedly second-hand E, the behavior you’re describing is not uncommon or unreasonable in a child that age. They just can’t sit still that long, and they need to be entertained. As a fellow diner (childless), I strongly prefer parents who distract and entertain their kids quietly, and then take them out when that stops working (which it will). There’s nothing so annoying as trying to eat with a screaming kid at the next table.
[/QUOTE]

I’m glad to hear that.

We try to be considerate and not expose others to annoyance, but at the same time, we feel very strongly that we can’t give the little fellow the idea that he can blackmail us into doing whatever he wants by threatening to annoy others.

69

McD’s sells apple slices in a little plastic bag, and 2% milk.

You might want to check out Louise Bates Ames’ books, there’s a whole series (“Your 1-yr-old”, etc.). She specifically discusses half years as periods of “disequilibrium”. I’ve mostly found that to be true of my twins. Around seventeen to about twenty months was tough, yet age 2 was a lot better. Months 29, 30 and 31 were ridiculously bad, I was seriously ready to look into a full-time job & daycare (actually, I did look into it; couldn’t earn enough).

IIRC, the only place I took them at that age was the mall playland, in the food court. And even then, some days we weren’t there for long. I realize that’s no help at all when you’re traveling.

70

[QUOTE=Fox Frenzy]
I’m not sure if it’s, in some way, a form of human evolution, but babies are being born smarter and adapt more quickly than our parents and our grandparents did while they were growing up.
[/QUOTE]
And I’m sure this can be documented by higher test scores and other methods of measuring “smart and adaptable”? I don’t think human evolution has suddenly sped up just in time to create you.

[QUOTE=Fox Frenzy]
The over all idea is, children today; including myself, as I’m a Gen-Next, are not as receptive to domination and control. We want what we need and we need what we want and we’ll crush anything that stands between that and we find ourselves constantly saying ‘Why!’ to rules and common senses that our parents/grand parents have always come to terms with.
[/QUOTE]
This sounds like a poorly-conceived attempt to justify selfish, bratty, rude behavior on the part of someone whose parents didn’t do a very good job of explaining one’s role in society.

[QUOTE=Fox Frenzy]
Just think about that for like, ten minutes and if you don’t find yourself going “Huh..that’s kinda true” then you’re just not paying attention.
[/QUOTE]
I spent like ten minutes and like thought about it and paid attention, and I like have to disagree with like everything you’re saying.

71

[QUOTE=Malthus]
You are preaching to the converted - I’d have him happily playing in McDees over being frustrated at a better restaurant any day of the week, but Mrs. Malthus feels strongly about it, not because she dislikes McDees as an evil corporation, but rather because she believes that their food is bad for you. In my opinion, a little bit can’t hurt.
[/QUOTE]

I think she’s right in that MOST of their food is bad for you, but if she’s been avoiding them for a while, she might be pleasantly surprised. They have apple slices now with the kids’ meals. And some really good non-iceberg based salads (as well as iceberg, if that’s your thing). Their fruit and yogurt parfait is one of my 2 year old’s favorites, and it’s only 160 calories with 2 grams of fat (it does have a lot of carbs, but that’s what the playland is for!

This guy has great information on the best of the bad.

I had a nutrition counseling teacher who once said, “We try to get our clients to eat well for 95% of their meals so that their bodies are strong enough to withstand the crap they undoubtedly eat the other 5% of the time!”

72

I like to bring along a book that has a LOT of visual content (my toddler isn’t reading yet). The old Richard Scarry books work great. We went out for a burger last night, and brought a sandwich for her…she was finished by the time we got our food, and I brought out one of those books. She sat and looked at it the whole time we were eating…what a lifesaver!

Never hurts to have some crayons and maybe a small coloring book for them, too.

73

Malthus, I applaud your desire to keep the upper hand, but in terms of parent/child power struggles, you’ve only just begun. :smiley: . I now wish I’d saved a little energy for later battles, rather than being determined to do it all “right” the first time through. Because their WILL grows, too, y’know? Your son will find new and different ways of struggling with you, because he HAS to.

Get that whole “no misbehavior in the restaurant” thing down, he’ll refuse to potty train. Or develop a fascination for picking his nose. Something. There’ll always be a NEW area of conflict. It’s really quite amazing.

74

[QUOTE=Malthus]
We try to be considerate and not expose others to annoyance, but at the same time, we feel very strongly that we can’t give the little fellow the idea that he can blackmail us into doing whatever he wants by threatening to annoy others.
[/QUOTE]

True, 'dat. When I was a nanny, the 18 month old quickly caught on that throwing things (like bread, or silverware) in the restaurant would result a sharp correction (non-physical, of course), which would give him a chance to start crying loudly, and then he would be removed from the restaurant. So then he started throwing things with an eye towards getting to go outside and wander around.

Once the slow-on-the-uptake grownups figured that out, the “removal from the restaurant” part changed to “strapped back in his car seat,” not “wandering around,” and hay-sus were there some tantrums then! But he learned that even if he could obtain a change of scene by bad behavior, what he got was worse than what he had, so it wasn’t worth it.

But the problem I most remember – Hijack – was when I would have all three boys out by myself, and I would be trying to moderate the behavior of a toddler while feeding a four year old and a six year old. Then there was no option to take any one kid outside, it was either we all stay, or we all go. I remember how strikingly unsympathetic other people were if the baby was misbehaving, even though it should have been obvious I couldn’t just leave the other two while I carried the baby off. I have always had great sympathy for single mothers since. But on the other hand, I also realized it was not really my privilege to ruin other people’s lunch, so I would only rarely even try to take all the kids out by myself. I honestly don’t know how single parents do it.

75

[QUOTE=Sarahfeena]
I like to bring along a book that has a LOT of visual content (my toddler isn’t reading yet). The old Richard Scarry books work great. We went out for a burger last night, and brought a sandwich for her…she was finished by the time we got our food, and I brought out one of those books. She sat and looked at it the whole time we were eating…what a lifesaver!

Never hurts to have some crayons and maybe a small coloring book for them, too.
[/QUOTE]

Oh yeah. We are like an ambulatory library of kiddie books. He gets fixated on one book and absolutely has to have it, over and over and over again … only to suddenly fall out of love with it and on to another.

His latest love was for the “Don’t Let The Pidgeon Drive The Bus!” and then he dropped it for a “Thomas the Tank Engine” storybook.

We like to give him a choice, but books only work for so long …

76

[QUOTE=fessie]
Malthus, I applaud your desire to keep the upper hand, but in terms of parent/child power struggles, you’ve only just begun. :smiley: . I now wish I’d saved a little energy for later battles, rather than being determined to do it all “right” the first time through. Because their WILL grows, too, y’know? Your son will find new and different ways of struggling with you, because he HAS to.

Get that whole “no misbehavior in the restaurant” thing down, he’ll refuse to potty train. Or develop a fascination for picking his nose. Something. There’ll always be a NEW area of conflict. It’s really quite amazing.
[/QUOTE]

:smack: :smiley:

Yeah, I know.

Know what is really maddening? Grandparent smugness. Know what I mean? They look at you, sometimes about to go nuts, and you know they are thinking “you were just as bad if not worse; see how you like it”. And sometimes they say it, just to rub it in. :wink:

77

[QUOTE=Jodi]
True, 'dat. When I was a nanny, the 18 month old quickly caught on that throwing things (like bread, or silverware) in the restaurant would result a sharp correction (non-physical, of course), which would give him a chance to start crying loudly, and then he would be removed from the restaurant. So then he started throwing things with an eye towards getting to go outside and wander around.

Once the slow-on-the-uptake grownups figured that out, the “removal from the restaurant” part changed to “strapped back in his car seat,” not “wandering around,” and hay-sus were there some tantrums then! But he learned that even if he could obtain a change of scene by bad behavior, what he got was worse than what he had, so it wasn’t worth it.

But the problem I most remember – Hijack – was when I would have all three boys out by myself, and I would be trying to moderate the behavior of a toddler while feeding a four year old and a six year old. Then there was no option to take any one kid outside, it was either we all stay, or we all go. I remember how strikingly unsympathetic other people were if the baby was misbehaving, even though it should have been obvious I couldn’t just leave the other two while I carried the baby off. I have always had great sympathy for single mothers since. But on the other hand, I also realized it was not really my privilege to ruin other people’s lunch, so I would only rarely even try to take all the kids out by myself. I honestly don’t know how single parents do it.
[/QUOTE]

Funny you should say that. First thing that my wife said to me when we got home was “I don’t think any one person could survive doing that”, meaning a road trip with toddler. It is hard enough with the two of us taking turns.

My heart truly goes out to single parents.

78

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79

[QUOTE=Malthus]
:smack: :smiley:

Yeah, I know.

Know what is really maddening? Grandparent smugness. Know what I mean? They look at you, sometimes about to go nuts, and you know they are thinking “you were just as bad if not worse; see how you like it”. And sometimes they say it, just to rub it in. :wink:
[/QUOTE]

:stuck_out_tongue: :smiley:
Geez, I hope I didn’t sound smug. This whole parenting business is really humbling for me – two steps forward, ten kicks in the ass from their little size 10 sneakers. :stuck_out_tongue:

I hope your parents are at least offering to babysit. They may be waiting until he’s verbal, though, so he can rat you out & reveal all your intimate details. :smiley:

80

[QUOTE=fessie]
:stuck_out_tongue: :smiley:
Geez, I hope I didn’t sound smug. This whole parenting business is really humbling for me – two steps forward, ten kicks in the ass from their little size 10 sneakers. :stuck_out_tongue:

I hope your parents are at least offering to babysit. They may be waiting until he’s verbal, though, so he can rat you out & reveal all your intimate details. :smiley:
[/QUOTE]

:wink:

They do, and they are happy to do it. Seriously, they really live for the little guy, and his wee cousin, my brother’s daughter.

But there is always that knowledge that they know you didn’t really understand what they had to go through with you - until now. :smiley: