It depends on the kid and how remorseful they are. Shame’s a tricky thing - too little, and they have no sense of consequence. Too much, and they have no sense of their own value.
So, what was your answer? I’m assuming you saw someone wildly overreact? Or just leave a mess for someone else to clean up?
One time in the snack bar at the roller-skating rink when I was 8 or 9. I think I picked up the cup in such a way that the lid popped off. Also splattered my jogging suit (ah, the '70s). After mopping it up, my mom sentenced me to sit in the booth and “think about all the times you’ve spilled things.” I believe the words “you little shit” were merely implied.
Another time at my cousin’s house out of state. Now, this was a bit different, because said cousin was very house-proud, and when she discovered this after the fact, I was mortified to realize that my mopping-up efforts had not been adequate. Still, she took it fairly well, and when I apologized the next day, I think she was mildly surprised that I was even bringing it up again. It was my mom who privately and icily told me that if I caused any more trouble, the whole rest of the vacation would be all about her, and she wouldn’t have [del]invited herself[/del] brought me if she’d realized I didn’t know how to behave like a civilized person. And the third time was on the same vacation, at a Denny’s, where she told me that she couldn’t believe that the waiter was so nice about it, and that we hadn’t been ordered to leave.
I’unno. I was not a run-arounder. I was not a shrieker, or a thrower of food, or an asker of inappropriate questions of strangers, or a demander of having everything my way. I don’t think I was even a chronic spiller; I don’t recall exactly how it happened in my cousin’s house, but it was probably a matter of forgetting that there was a table there and bumping into it. And I was a hostess at Denny’s once, and I’m telling you, those glasses are just asking to get knocked over. But each time, I got a huge glaring spotlight trained on me, and for some odd reason, that made me more self-conscious and more prone to mishaps. I’unno.
Well good Lord, how awful and sad. I just assumed we were talking about teaching normative behavior to preschoolers. I’m sorry.
One branch of my Father’s family has reunions every few years, and it’s so interesting to see the neuroses most of us share. By and large the spouses are far more lively and well-grounded than the blood relatives, who all seem imprinted with a sense of shame and extreme duty. Great-grandpa was a Minister. Seeing our parents as the children of their environment can answer a lot of questions.
Just another of those things that’s made me more patient with children. When I was 17, my sister was visiting us, with my nephew and her stepdaughter. Stepdaughter was sleeping in my room, and guess what? A glass of orange crush got spilled.
I actually was quite irritated at first, but it just took that meek little “I’m sorry…” to snap me out of it and get me to realize that a) we’d been getting along great so far b) she was in a strange place, trying to make a good impression, just like I’d been c) people are more important than carpet and d) it was my orange crush anyway. So I brushed it off, and no harm done.
I just don’t have it in me to get aggravated with a child, or a teenager for that matter. Let other people be the martinets; I don’t think my leniency alone is going to create a brat.
I’m here to say “mmm-HHMM, preach it, sister.” I was a clumsy kid. I think it had something to do with being pathologically left-handed, and, ah, spacially-challenged. To this day, I still walk into things (the doorjamb, my desk, the coffee table). My dad used to tease me when I would spill stuff / fall down / break something, and it wasn’t the fun kind of teasing either, it was the exasperated kind. He called me “Clumsy Claude,” which I for years into my adulthood thought was “Clumsy Clod” (how I knew the word “clod” as an insult I have no idea; Nancy Drew or some similar old-fashioned book, I guess). It never occurred to me he was saying “Claude” because Claude was a boy’s name; I was a girl. It really hurt my feelings to have my dad call me names, which is what I thought he was doing.
Why can’t you be more careful???
I don’t know. I didn’t mean to.
You never mean to.
. . . Which was true, of course, so I’m not sure why that was flung at me like an accusation.
Ah, good times.
Berating/punishing a kid for being uncoordinated is like berating/punishing them for being a bedwetter. Which I thank Og I was not; I might not have survived to puberty.
Again, excellent examples of stupid questions. Wouldn’t it have been more helpful to hear:
“Please move more slowly and carefully when things are crowded.”
“No running, things get spilled when we run. Walk in the house, run outside.”
“Hold the glass with two hands, please!”
and of course,
“You spilled it, you clean it up! Here’s how you get Orange Crush out of carpet. Next time you’ll do this yourself, so remember where the carpet cleaner is kept, okay?”
Just so much more useful. Not indulgent, not spoiling, but just more useful.
How do you get Orange Crush out of carpet?
Blot, from the outside of the ring in towards the middle, with a clean white rag*. (Blot mean press the towel onto the carpet, but don’t scrub. Lift, find a dry part of the rag, and repeat. Don’t scrub. Did I mention no scrubbing?) Then spray on a spot carpet cleaner (I like Resolve), and follow the label directions.
My 2 year old wipes up her own spills on our hardwood floors, and puts the rags in the wash all by herself. I often have to help finish the job, but she takes responsibility for her own messes.
*ETA: Depending on your carpet color, the color of the rag is probably irrelevant, but some light colored carpets will pick up color from dark rags, so white’s always your safest bet.
I thank you and my children will eventually thank you…though I wouldn’t hold your breath waiting for them to say so.
When my daughter was two she started all day pre-school at UCLA. My wife was surprised to see that the teachers let the little kids pour their own milk at snack time.
“But what happens if they spill it?” my wife asked.
“Then we clean it up.” the teacher replied.
It was a great program. They gave the kids lots of resposibility for tending to themselves and the classroom. It was wonderful to see how serious the little mice were about their duties.
They are referred to as McPetrie Dishes around here. I have become a slackermom and realized the wiser previous mentioned line You can’t fight McDonald’s. My longstanding boycott of their EVILNESS they are plotting to take over the world, I just know it. and substandard food did not bring the company to its knees. dammit.
Their new coffee campaign completely and utterly broke my last reserves. the bastards! Excellent coffee*, reasonable prices. I don’t have to get out of my car. My fat arse thanks Ray Kroc’s peeples.
*It still pales in comparison to Tim Horton’s Orgasmically great coffee, great prices, drive thru service. just not very convienent to my java jonseing needs.
Oh honey, honey honey…
You really are quite innocent aren’t you? A lot of us, before we became parents, thought in similar ways, and for similar reasons.
“Well, I used to babysit the four little kids down the block almost every weekend and they were perfect angels…”.
You DO realize that how a child is apt to behave around a relative stranger is completely different than how they’re going to act with mom and dad? And your “9 or 10 hours and we played video games and they were perfect angels” notwithstanding, that’s just not reality, even for the best behaved kids. And for the record, it really wasn’t very good for a 1 and 5 year old to be merely parked in front of the TV for 10 hours while you and your friend played video games.
Question: Are kids more likely to behave for a relative stranger than they are for mom and dad?
When Rosalyn, the babysitter, was first introduced in Calvin and Hobbes, Calvin greeted her with “You’re not my mom so I don’t have to do anything you say I’m gonna do whatever I feel like so you just stay out of the way.” My sister guffawed and said, “That’s exactly why I have such a hard time getting a babysitter!” Aren’t there kids who won’t accept authority from any other than parents? (Maybe grandparents, if they’re familiar, and regular teachers but not subs.)
ETA: And yes, being ignored for 9 hours was why those kids melted down when mom and dad showed up.
Ooh, that’s a toughie. I think I’ll say both. It depends!
As an example, I have spent the past 3 days with a little guest in our home while her mom was on a short trip. This particular kid is very energetic and more of a handful than my two, though a nice enough kid. I teach her class at church, so she already sees me as something of an authority figure. On the whole, I would say that she did behave better for me than she does with her mom; she had her company manners on and mostly did what I asked without lots of whining or attempts to push my buttons. But she also disobeyed me a few times–mostly when our home rules didn’t match up with her own–and she was very resistant to anything like that. She was willing to cooperate, but only up to a point.
One afternoon we went swimming and took her brother along too. I had another friend along as backup! The brother is pretty hyper and has poor impulse control–he’s kind of borderline ADHD. They both behaved better than they normally do (and I swim with them a lot, they can be horrible), but when they did fight and I sent them each to a corner, they were much more resistant than they are with their mom. They clearly did not think that I had the right to discipline them, though their mother had told them so. The brother gave in after a little while and was soon playing again, but the girl wound up in time-out far longer than she needed to be.
A babysitter is tricky, because she might not be familiar, she might be a teenager and obviously not a real adult–so kids might be ready to push the limits and see how far they can get. I certainly had some awful babysitting experiences as a teenager! I think a babysitter will do better the more constant and familiar she is, and the younger the kids are. We get the same girl to come every week, and the kids look forward to seeing her and do what she says. Once we got a different girl to come, and the combination of her youth/inexperience and the unfamiliarity meant that they were still awake and up when we got home at 9pm; they were playing her like a fiddle.
OTOH an adult who exudes a sense of authority, comfort, and competence will be more likely to get results and behavior, I think. But there will always be kids who push as hard as they can with any new authority figure. I wonder how much of that is learned and how much is a personality thing? But in a school setting, I think kids will quickly learn from each other that any new adult is to be challenged. And of course the older they get, the more they’ll do it.
This didn’t make a lot of sense, I guess. But remember: kids can smell fear!
You couldn’t be more wrong. And here’s a newsflash: the grocery store, as well as many other public places, is not considered a “tantrum-free zone.” You are not entitled to a tantrum-free shopping experience. Get used to it.
My daughter is challenging. Always has been. Emotionally somewhat less stable than I’d like (she’s almost eight). Demanding. Probably spoiled - though we try not to. Talks to much, doesn’t listen.
The next door neighbor subs at her school. She says my daughter is a completely different child at school. Helpful, compassionate, a good listener, sweet, behaves and does what she is told.
At home she knows that no matter how big a tantrum she pulls, Mom will still pull her into a hug and tell her she loves her.
I’m sure it isn’t universal.
I have it on good authority that, as a child, NinetyWt was rambunctious enough to equal about five kids, pushing her mom’s total to nine.
Did you come over here because I went over there?
