Why does it matter what I think? I don’t like what a lot of people say but that doesn’t mean I think the govt. should shut them out. I guess for some people it just matters whose ox is being gored.
Marc
Because I’m asking you what you would think, not what our gov’t. would think.
Honestly, I have trouble finding justification in my own Zionist mind for the actions of the government, except that Israel by its nature is forced to play politics differently from every other nation in the world. But that’s not justification, either.
I’m just trying to defend the OP for being glad to see Robertson shut out–independent of the question of governmental fairness.
Let’s not ignore the fact that the Palistinians could easily view the Isreali government continuing to do business with Robertson in light of this as a big ‘Fuck You’.
‘Hey, you know that guy who said Sharon’s stroke was God’s punishment for trying to deal with you like one group of civilized human beings to another? He’s still good with us.’
As someone else who’s spent a small amount of time in Israel, let me say:
Bingo.
By all means. I for one am always happy to see Robertson disappointed.
Marc
BTW, now that Tengu has mentioned a possible desire to look better for the Palestinians, I must point to that as a possible justification.
Israel’s a safe place on a personal level, but it’s not a peaceful place. They have to deal with the fact that they are surrounded on all sides by a common people who due to various circumstances are prone to influence by charismatic leaders who can (and sometimes do) pounce upon any perceived slight, labeling it an act of Zionist oppression against their interests. As it happens, more and more of their neighbors are coming around in a very slow and gradual process; Egypt and Jordan already have, and the PA is getting there. It’s in the best interests of the Israeli government to show that it’s really serious about making peace with its neighbors, and vice versa; politics are such that the twitch response to what one perceives as a red flag is to whip out your peacemaker and prepare your defense. It’s a tense situation, which as I see it is only analogous to ours in one way:
Israel is a beacon of democracy and freedom of religion/speech/press/what-have-you.
Unfortunately, this is relative, by nature. That government is decades ahead of all of its neighbors; Arabs generally feel safer in Israel than Jews feel in (say) Syria. Not all predominantly Arabic governments make themselves dangerous to Jews, but even in Egypt, a veritable Canada compared to most of the rest of the region and these days an important peace partner, high-circulation government newspapers sometimes use blood libel as ostensibly legitimate newsfodder. (Can’t be arsed to find a link.) The long and the short of it is that Israel’s government is pretty fair, but it just can’t afford to live up completely to Jeffersonian ideals. If you ask me, the unusually high level of freedom to be whomever you want to be is enough.
In short: Thomas Jefferson might not be satisfied, but if he knew the context I think he’d be proud.
No worries matey, I think we’re ALL glad to see Robertson shut out 
You raise an interesting point, but as always when discussing freedom of speech, there is North Korea-like oppression at one end of the scale, and the prohibition against “shouting ‘fire’ in a crowded theatre” at the other.
Moslem/Christian/Jewish relations in Israel are not merely a tendentious talking point, they are cause of civil unrest and actual violence.
Your attempted analogy verges on the disingenous. Robertson did not merely “say something negative” about Sharon. He is a high profile religious leader, wanting to build a piece of overtly religious propaganda, and he made a public statement that his God was punishing the secular leader of Israel for taking certain highly controversial action designed to reduce (in the long term) religious and cultural tensions.
Now fine, if Robertson wants to make a dick of himself by saying dumbass things, that’s just dandy.
But clearly, Robertson’s theme park project must require Israeli government backing or, at the least, permission of some sort (otherwise they couldn’t stop it).
You say: “what does it matter what I think?”
Well if we substitute “the people of Israel” for “I” then one can see a problem.
No matter the niceties, as Tengu says, if the Israeli government was to back or give permission to Robertson’s project they would in the public mind be failing to disassociate themselves from a high profile religious shit stirrer. That is not something that the Israeli government, walking a very difficult line between religious groups, can afford, or should be expected, to do.
I’ve nothing to add on-topic, but I just did want to say “thank you” to fetus for describing Israel as I would describe it to others if I had half of his/her way with words
And yes, Israel is safer than many large cities in the Western World. Media has a way of blowing everything out of proportion – do you all really think that the population of Washington DC was decimated during the time of the serial killings’ panic a few years back?
To those who have praised my wording, thanks. Since I joined this board I like to think my goal has been to use my experiences to open minds up as far as I can open 'em. Your votes of confidence in my latest attempts to do so truly make my day. 
The plan was for the Israeli govt to lease the land at a peppercorn rent, with the intention that they would benefit from the increase in jobs and tourism dollars the theme park would bring.
If they were to charge full market rate for the land the cost would be much, much higher than the $50 quoted.
Don’t forget the Jack Chick-Fil-A concession!
Or even $50m
(even Ikea don’t do flat-pack themeparks for $50)
I have never been to Israel but my brother has, several times, on business. On his latest trip he was having lunch at a restaurant in Tel Aviv when everybody heard an explosion (from a suicide bombing) right down the street. None of the diners screamed or panicked. After all, they’re used to this kind of thing. What they did was, they immediately and calmly pulled out their cell phones and started calling their relatives to make sure they were all right.
That kind of attitude towards terrorism inspires me with admiration and horror in equal measure.
This is mis-analysis. “They’re used to this kind of thing” is utterly misleading. Yes, Israelis have a different attitude towards terrorism because it happens several times as often there as here–but that’s still really rare.
Agh. I’m out of calm words, and you don’t have half the malice you need to justify someone truly Pitting you, so I’m going to stop here. I hope someone else, like one of our Israeli Dopers, can join in.
Eh, I can no longer get myself worked up enough about people thinking we’re a constant war-zone… :rolleyes: Plus I usually like BrainGlutton even if I disagree with a large chunk of his/her politics, especially regarding the Mideast.
So I’ll just stick to education here.
Our situation with terrorism is (or was, actually, things have calmed down further in the part year or so, since Arafat’s death) akin to how poeple on Tornado Alley treat tornadoes. They don’t freak when one happens; this doesn’t mean they don’t realize they have to take certain precautions, live a little bit differently perhaps than other folks. Doesn’t mean people in Kansas have a tornado pass by their window every hour on the hour though.
Also, a major difference between Terrorism and Tornadoes is that terrorism can, sometimes, be at least partially stemmed or contained; which we do. But we realize that some will get through.
From what I understand, Pat was involved in the Biblical Galilean theme park, but was not the only US Evangelical. Israel’s boycott of Pat does not cancel the project. The Israeli officials welcome US Evangelicals to work with them as long as they repudiate Pat’s views on Sharon. Btw, apparently, those C’tians on the theme park project have agreed not to use it for evangelizing Jews.
You see, we Evangelicals will evangelize Jews anywhere, but we have to be reeeally subtle about it in Israel. L
(Now, remember, Pat didn’t indicate Sharon’s illness=Divine judgement because Pat is anti-Israel. He said that because he does not view Sharon as pro-Israel enough!)
Which is funny, when you think about it.
Well, that’s just my point. You can learn such an attitude, but it would be much harder for foreign (and especially American) tourists to do so. Even one terror attack on Pat’s Bible park would be enough to scare away the customers. Certainly, if you figure the odds, it’s very unlikely you’ll happen to book your trip during the one week of all the year when the park gets bombed, but even so, we really can’t think of those odds as acceptable. And a theme park is a massive project with a lot of overhead. It would need a whole lot of guests, a steady supply of them, to work. (Remember Euro-Disney?)
Fuck you, if you’re going to insult me by calling me disingenuous then at least have the balls not to pussy foot around the accusation.
Marc