Performing musicians: Q about group dynamics (longish)

Cafe Society
1

Well, in this case it’s a group of 2, but I was trying to be concise.

Background: I belong to our local folk music society. Quite often at our monthly concerts, the audience is invited to sing along, and being an avid amateur singer and harmonizer, I usually do. Professional musicians have told me, unsolicited, that I have a nice voice.

After one of these sing-alongs last winter, another member (let’s call him “Bob”) approached me, said he heard my singing and thought it was lovely, and would I be interested in jamming with him?

Hell yeah!

Bob is about 70 years old and retired and has been playing the guitar and performing (on the side) for most of his life. He’s quite talented and can transpose and figure out chord patterns on the fly, work out harmonies, etc. About 10 years ago he was playing part-time in a local band with four members, doing the usual complement of folk/oldies/country/bluegrass/etc. But the group broke up; Bob went solo, and the band picked up another member and went on under a new name. Bob says his main reason for leaving was that it was getting to be too much hassle coordinating rehearsals for four busy people, plus he wasn’t fond of having to handle all the booking, paying the band and other paperwork, etc. Fine and dandy, that’s his right and all well and good. So he’s been doing solo gigs here and there for a nominal fee and sometimes for free/tips for nonprofits and such.

So, now I’m in the picture. We’ve had a few gigs together, some paid, some not, which is fine, because I’m just in it to sing. (Bob insists on splitting 50/50, even though I offered to take less because he’s still getting the gigs, setting up his sound system, and doing the bulk of the guitar playing.) I sing both lead and harmony and have gotten some nice compliments on my voice. And I was surprised to learn that I get a little high from singing in public, not terribly nervous at all. Win!

My main problem is that I now regret having mentioned to Bob way back then that I had just started taking guitar lessons. By “taking lessons,” I don’t mean once a week with regular practice and assignments; I mean that for two winters now I’ve gone over to a friend’s house about once a week for three or four sessions, he shows me a few things, we jam a bit, and then he says, “Great, go do your thing, see you next winter when we’re both looking for something fun to do.” I wanted to learn to play mostly by ear, on the fly, to be able to accompany myself for my own pleasure and the occasional open mike, campfire music, etc. I am not looking to become Eddie Van Halen. So practicing to the point of being a sharp performer is not high on my list of priorities; it’s something to do in odd moments. I have a life and a job and other things that are more important to me right now.

So anyway, Bob totally glommed on to that and decided that I was going to get all kinds of practice by jamming with him, and become some kind of mondo folk guitar performer.

I tried to nip this in the bud by saying at one of our first rehearsals that I mostly just wanted to develop my singing chops (which was, after all, the reason he invited me to join him, right?), and would rather keep the guitar on the back burner. But he kept coming up with “easy” songs for us to play (“Here, this one has only three easy chords!”), basically dumbing down the music so I could play along.

Unfortunately, because of my deliberate lack of practice, I am still very much a beginner, and I certainly don’t belong on a stage with a guitar. I’ve tried humoring him by practicing a little more, but clearly this would require more time on my part than I am willing/able to give. Meanwhile he keeps insisting that if I learn to play everything as bar chords, I’ll be able to play/transpose anything, look at this chord how neat it is, etc. Another thing is that he’s not very good at playing instrumentals (picking out melodies), so often our bridges consist of humming or scatting the melody while playing the same guitar bit. A few weeks ago he said that once I’ve gotten good enough to pick out melodies myself, we won’t have to do that any more. :eek: Um, Bob, what have I been saying??

The last straw was this past weekend. We had two 2-hour gigs, four hours apart. The first one was kind of a dud, a street fair with pretty low attendance, so we had almost no audience. But hey, sometimes you get paid to rehearse, right? I’d been thinking about the guitar thing and had put in some extra practice, so I thought I’d try playing on a few more songs than I usually do.

We had some screw-ups at the first gig, but no big whoop because no one was there listening anyway, right? But the second was a small group where people deliberately came to hear us. Dunno if it was that (though I FELT relaxed) or being tired from the long day, but I started making MAJOR guitar screwups. Playing chords totally wrong, losing my place, etc. REALLY bad. Eventually I just gave up. The next song was one I was supposed to sing lead AND play, but I leaned over to Bob before he introduced it and told him I was just going to sing. He said OK and we finished the song and then the set.

At the break I told Bob about my troubles and that I was just not going to play anymore tonight, and he said that was OK. We did the second set OK, though we were starting to get a bit hoarse. The next day Bob e-mailed me, as he often does, to say he thought it went well and how much he enjoys gigging with me, and to say a few things about our next upcoming gig in a few weeks.

Here’s the thing: I want to tell Bob that I don’t want to play the guitar for gigs anymore. And I know this will disappoint him. One, because I think he’s enjoying the whole “mentoring” thing (and God love him for it, he’s really sweet and generous with his time and teaching). Two, I think he really wants someone to be able to help out with the guitar stuff, both with instrumentals and in general. He has said that he feels like his memory is slipping, and sometimes it shows in his playing.

Muddying the waters is the fact that I played a set (vocal/guitar) at the open mike for our annual festival a few weeks ago. Two were songs I’ve been playing for a few years, so I know them backward and forward. The third was a cappella. So see, I did perform solo with the guitar once, so (I can see Bob arguing) why can’t I continue to do so? I guess my answer is, that was different, and I just don’t wanna. If someone is available to accompany me, I’d rather not play.

There’s another guitarist (let’s call him “Tom”) that Bob has been jamming with occasionally. I’ve met him, and we’ve actually shared a gig, with Bob and me for the first hour and Tom solo for the second. We’re all fans of each other. Now, see, if Bob and Tom and I could get together, with Bob and Tom doing guitar & vocals and me just singing, I would totally love that. But I DO NOT WANT the pressure of playing guitar on stage. I just don’t feel like I belong on stage with a guitar in my hands, when plenty of amateur musicians can play circles around me in their sleep.

Unfortunately I think that would probably put Bob in the position of managing a band again, which HE doesn’t want. He’s even said so: “Wouldn’t it be neat if we could bring in another instrumentalist? But then it’s be too much work again.”

sigh

Besides the obvious question of “what to do?”, I’m wondering if I’m being selfish or unreasonable to want to just sing. Am I not carrying my weight by not spending more time with the guitar? Is it too much to ask to just want to show up and sing, or am I being unfair by expecting Bob to do all the playing? (Bob plays beautifully enough all by himself, and I think my playing just muddies the sound. And after all, his reason for asking me to jam was my singing, before he even knew I’d started playing the guitar.) I like to think that I’ve tried to be honest with Bob, but he just doesn’t seem to hear me, and unless I want to go on being semi-miserable, I’m going to have to have a come-to-Jesus conversation with him. And I’m sure he’ll just say I need to build confidence. Well, yes, if I wanted to practice more, I’d probably become more confident with the guitar. But I. Just. Want. To. Sing. That’s my strength.

What say the musical Dopers?

2

Moving to Cafe Society.

BTW I wish all the luck in the world to the OP. I too am an aspiring performer, but conversely I want to just play and not sing so much.

3

Your situation has many of the same eerie markings as my “career” on the pipe organ. I’m a modest piano player (with a fair bit of theory and composition, owing to my B.A. in music), who sings in my church choir. After playing on the piano for funsies a few time, I was talked into playing the organ, I love our great big casavant, so it didn’t take much convincing.

I’ve taken weekly lessons on the organ for about two years now. The registrations and pedals don’t bother me, but I am not, nor will I ever be, a sight reader, or a strong enough player to keep up with the repertoire we’re doing. Maybe if I keep chugging away at it for twenty years, but still…the stress makes it not fun for me to do.

I’ve decided to keep doing my lessons, but I’m not playing for Mass. And this is producing grief as the organist at my church is in his 70s, and has a mighty hump in his back. He wants to retire, and he was “counting” on me to be his heir apparent.

My advice? Whether you decide to leave the group or just lay it flat out about your dislike of playing in performances, tell him you can’t do it. It’s tough, but this isn’t a job or a vocation. Do you want to be dragged into a gig you hate, for weeks upon months, even years, if playing the guitar makes it frustrating? No. Don’t suck the joy out of something you enjoy.

4

+1. I am in a band, which is hard enough in terms of juggling personalities. But now I am doing a side project at work with some other guys who play in the office. We are tooling up a few songs to play at a company party - it will end up being really fun. But, to be clear: this must be done correctly - we are not going to sound like anything but our best in this professional setting.

My point? I have to just lay things out - talk to the players and spell out exactly what the issues are. I make it clear that we are trying to target what is best for the song and I take as much critiquing as I hand out, but we are going to dig in and figure out what is not sounding right…untill it does.

This is what pro’s do - if you tiptoe, you will not be effective. Keep lines of communication 100% clear and stay focused on making good music. Toes may get stepped on, but if the person is worth staying with, they will understand what their priorities are…

5

So tell him. He’ll get over it. You need to do what you want to do.

6

The dilemma being you don’t want to play guitar this way and you don’t want to disappoint him. There’s no perfect way out. But as you know, the better choice is to tell him – clearly, kindly, and forcefully – that you won’t be playing guitar on your gigs together.

I would say that Bob has unrealistic expectations in two ways. First, you simply don’t want to do it, just as he doesn’t want to manage a band. He’s not managing, you’re not playing. Second, unless you’re some sort of super prodigy, it’s really not possible to develop performance-ready lead guitar picking skills in the near future, even if you wanted to, which you don’t. I think the come-to-Jesus discussion (done kindly, of course) is necessary.

That said, I have some feeling for where Bob is coming from. I’ve recently met a gal at church who sings (beautifully) and strums chord accompaniment on guitar. Where I’ve learned to play common chord progressions in several keys, she likes to stay in G. As in, capoed up 5 (!) frets to play the key of C using key of G chords. My thought is that she ought to just play in C, but she hates the F major chord. I have to accept that she’s going to do what she’s comfortable with, not what I would do. If and when she decides to hone her skills in other keys, I’d be happy to help, but until then it’s her decision, whether or not I like it. I’m there to share music with her, not to push her from doing something she enjoys to doing something she wouldn’t. C’est la vie.

7

Any reason why you can’t offer to handle the management stuff?

If you don’t want to manage a trio, either, then you’re stuck with just telling Bob how you feel and dealing with things from there. But definitely tell him how you feel.

8

Thanks, everyone. It’s good to know that I’m not being selfish or unreasonable to not want to play. I’ll definitely have this conversation with Bob – I’m just not looking forward to it. Then again, maybe it won’t be a big deal. I can always hope.

I thought about that briefly . . . but realistically, Bob is kind of stuck with it, because he’s the schmoozer, the one with the connections in the community to rustle up gigs. It’s also his sound system (about which I know squat). So far payment hasn’t seemed to be a big deal; either we divvy up what’s in the tip jar, or there’s a check/cash and we split it. To be honest, I’m not sure what was such a pain for him other than trying to get four people together for rehearsals. But right now it’s just him and me, and so far once a week for 2-4 hours has seemed sufficient.

9

You could always try and get more musicians into the group, and see if you could pawn off the executive duties on one of them! I’ve thought about doing the same in my own situation. It takes more work, but it frees you from an awkward confrontation!

10

If you aren’t happy just telling him, or he doesn’t want to listen, just tell him that you have given up playing the guitar entirely. “Just got tired of it, Bob.”

Best wishes,
hh

11

All the people I’ve met that are good at guitar spent every free moment practicing, at least at first. If you can’t or won’t do that, then I agree that you have no other choice but to tell the guy.

Also, as far as I know, learning chords really doesn’t help with the lead work he’s expecting from you.