Potentially socially awkward situation where we like the husband as a friend but not his wife

In My Humble Opinion
101

It does seem like she really wants to force your hand: either you start playing nice again or have a formal “breakup”, but the slow fade is not going to happen here. My guess is that she’s well aware she’s repellant and unable to keep friends on her own merits, so she forces herself on her husband’s friends. Then, if they drop him, it’s their fault, because (she’ll say to him) if they would make him choose them over his own wife, they’re not really friends anyway.

That’s the problem with the One More Shot at Boys Night: if he doesn’t come, or brings her, as he did last time, then you never get the chance to explain *why *you’re blowing him off, and you’ll take the blame. And I think you owe him that, even though it should be blindingly obvious.

I’d send him (read: her) an email saying basically what PunditLisa laid out:

102

Well, in response to her Saturday / Sunday invite, I sent a generic “thanks but we can’t make it.”

The other husband sent a response saying they can’t make it either with a couple examples why he’s busy.

She replied with a have a great weekend.

Then, she posted her FB status … one word … “Done.”

:smiley:

103

I think that suggestion is great. I would copy and paste the text of that email, and be done with it.

104

Yes, but she carries his balls in her purse.

Oh, fer fuck’s sake, she’s a 5th grader!

105

Dear Dude,

I’m sorry to have to say this, but while we enjoy your company, we have a very hard time getting along with your wife, for many reasons. We were unsure of our feelings for some time, and we did not come to the same conclusion all at once, but things really came to a head at the cabin.

It is not my intent to be mean, offensive, or attacking, but I feel some examples are in order. Essentially, we all feel uncomfortable with her changes in mood, particularly when things do not go according to her plans or desires. We’re also uncomfortable with the way she treats you in specific. It makes for an awkward time when she gets annoyed by mundane things, like where you choose to sit. It is also disturbing to those around you when she attempts to maneuver you into doing things. I realize that is really between the two of you to sort out, as it is not our place to judge your marriage, but it does make others quite uncomfortable to be around. Also, when she puts the kebash on a boys’ night out, then it’s clear that she doesn’t trust us. It’s hard to be good friends with people who don’t trust you.

Obviously, it’s natural that, as her husband, you want to put her needs and preferences first and even stick up for her through thick and thin. We understand that you are a package deal. We can’t expect her to change who she is, nor do we ask that of her.

The bottom line here is that we all feel that our personalities do not mesh well with your wife. We have attempted to have you out with the boys to have some beers and perhaps talk about things, but, apparently, that is not in the cards.

While we would be happy to have you hang out with just the boys, sadly, the personality conflicts with your wife prevent us from doing further group events. Unfortunately, this means that, much as we would like to spend time with you, we can’t continue to do so under the circumstances.

We realize this may be the end of things between us, but hope it is not the case.

Bearflag

PS: I am sending this to you and not to her because we think you deserve some explanation as to why we have been distant lately, but we do not want to offend your wife. You may want her to read this herself or you may want to filter things out and give her a summary. That’s up to you.

106

Great letter, but the word is kibosh.
I think.

107

Yes, thanks.

Wondering if I should just leave out the examples paragraph and go with the generic concept of not meshing. Like this…

Dear Dude,

I’m sorry to have to say this, but while we enjoy your company, we have a very hard time getting along with your wife, for many reasons. We were unsure of our feelings for some time, and we did not come to the same conclusion all at once, but things really came to a head at the cabin.

Obviously, it’s natural that, as her husband, you want to put her needs and preferences first and even stick up for her through thick and thin. We understand that you are a package deal. We can’t expect her to change who she is, nor do we ask that of her.

The bottom line here is that we all feel that our personalities do not mesh well with your wife. We have attempted to have you out with the boys to have some beers and perhaps talk about things, but, apparently, that is not in the cards.

While we would be happy to have you hang out with just the boys, sadly, the personality conflicts with your wife prevent us from doing further group events. Unfortunately, this means that, much as we would like to spend time with you, we can’t continue to do so under the circumstances.

We realize this may be the end of things between us, but hope it is not the case.

Bearflag

PS: I am sending this to you and not to her because we think you deserve some explanation as to why we have been distant lately, but we do not want to offend your wife. You may want her to read this herself or you may want to filter things out and give her a summary. That’s up to you.

108

I think parts of your original second paragraph are fine:

Essentially, we all feel uncomfortable with her changes in mood, particularly when things do not go according to her plans or desires. We’re also uncomfortable with the way she treats you in specific. It makes for an awkward time when she gets annoyed by mundane things, like where you choose to sit. Also, when she puts the kebash on a boys’ night out, then it’s clear that she doesn’t trust us. It’s hard to be good friends with people who don’t trust you.

109

I’d leave the examples in. I am having a dust-up of minor proprtions with a friend of mine, and just getting him to tell me what I have done to him has been excruciating. If I am to offer an apology, I want it to be sincere, instead of “Hey, I’m sorry for those, um, things that I did that made you mad at me, and I’ll try not to do them anymore.” In the meantime I don’t know if it was my bad puns, or accidentally passing gas, or what :smiley:

Giving him examples also gives him leverage if he decides he wants to hash things out a bit with his wife. I know a guy who literally just gets out-argued by his wife (an attorney) and if he doesn’t have examples, he gets cowed.

110

Other hubby does not like the part about where to sit…

Essentially, we all feel uncomfortable with her changes in mood, particularly when things do not go according to her plans or desires. We’re also uncomfortable with the way she treats you in specific. It makes for an awkward time when she gets annoyed by mundane things. Also, when she puts the kibosh on a boys’ night out, then it’s clear that she doesn’t trust us. It’s hard to be good friends with people who don’t trust you.

111

Actually I’d also change these:

Obviously, it’s natural that, as her husband, you want to put her needs and preferences first and even stick up for her through thick and thin. We understand that you are a package deal. We can’t expect her to change who she is, nor do we ask that of her.

The bottom line here is that we all feel that our personalities do not mesh well with your wife. We have attempted to have you out with the boys to have some beers and perhaps talk about things, but, apparently, that is not in the cards.
To This:

The bottom line here is that we all feel that our personalities do not mesh well with your wife. We can’t expect her to change who she is, nor do we ask that of her. Whilst we understand that you are a package deal, me and my friends are used to the occasional boys night out. Given that we like you and enjoy your company, we would like to have just you come along for some beers, but it’s become apparent that you’re not going to be able to do this.

112

I’m late to the party, but I have to disagree with “breaking up with you” e-mail. I like much better the second invitation to a BOYS ONLY get-together. Then the sequence goes like this:

HIM: Want to get together with us over the weekend?
YOU & THE BOYS: No thanks. Do you want to got out “Just boys”?

Unless the guy is a complete and total moron, you don’t have to say anything further, much less send a “these are all the reasons we don’t like your wife” e-mail. That exchange itself says “We don’t want to get together with you and your wife, but we do want to get together with just you.”

I do not understand the belief that all underlying ugliness must be made explicit in the name of openness or honesty. The list of “why’s” is just a list of insults to his wife, and at the end of the day, the why’s don’t matter: You don’t like her. You don’t want to hang out with her. Full stop. You are willing to hang out with him, and you’ve made that clear But he is MARRIED to her. He puts up with her, presumably he likes her, if not loves her. The idea that you could send that e-mail and not offend BOTH of them is frankly laughable.

So I think it’s a bad idea. I think it’s gratuitiously mean-spirited, to be honest, slagging off his wife under the guise of being honest with him. I accept that this might not be your intent, but I can assure you that’s how it will be read. And for what?

“Do you want to go out with me and my wife?”
“No, but I do want to go out with just you.”

Dude, nobody needs any help parsing that. It says all you need to say. Invite him for a second Boys Night Out. If he refuses, he’s made his choice. If he drags her along again, he’s also effectively made his choice, because that’s ridiculous.

ETA: And to get a feel for whether or not the e-mail you are proposing is really a good idea, I’d ask you to consider how you would feel if you received such an e-mail about YOUR wife, and whether having received it could possibly salvage the friendship or leave you (and her) feeling anything other than angry, embarrassed, and deeply hurt. Seriously, it’s a bad idea. Don’t send it.

113

You do realize she’ll delete this before he ever gets to read it, right?

Also, am I the only one who thinks a more brief note that doesn’t spell out specifics works better? I think a simple “We don’t mesh well and we are uncomfortable with the way she treats you.” is sufficient unless there is any hope of correcting the problem.

ETA: Okay, I’m not the only one. I agree with what Jodi said above.

114

I’d never stick that sort of conversation in writing. Talk to him, or blow him off - but don’t email him a “Dear John” letter.

(Although I would be tempted to comment “Thank God” on her Facebook post.)

115

The more I think about it, I think simple and vague is better… less chance of hard feelings. Also, I don’t want her going around town badmouthing me because I run my own business.

I’m thinking of just sending an email saying this…

I am sorry we have been distant lately, but we have been grappling with an uncomfortable issue. It boils down to the fact that we love hanging out with you, but we simply do not mesh well with your wife. I am sorry, but that is the crux of it and I thought you deserve to know. We have tried to invite you out for boys nights, and you are welcome to join us for MNF, but if that is not in the cards, then I understand.

116

The more I think about it, the more I think Jodi is spot-on. He’s probably going to be angry if he sees that in writing.

117

My new thought…

We already sent the MNF invite for BOYS ONLY and rejected her invite for the whole gang to go out this weekend. That MNF invite is still out there for boys only, unanswered by her husband. She may be finally reading between the lines and figuring it out now.

Her FB post of “Done” may be the end of it, especially since we have no response from her husband on the MNF invite.

A quiet death is a good death and here’s why.

I run my own business and I get a fair number of clients through her employer. She is also an internet blogger. Her employer is huge, and she’s just a small part of it, but I don’t want her blogging shit about me because I sent her some note that pissed her off. She seems like the type to hold a grudge and act on it.

If she is indeed “Done” with us and we continue to get no response on the MNF invite, then I think we are indeed done without further action.

118

The bottom line is you don’t like his wife. A list of Reasons Why Your Wife Sucks isn’t going to help the issue at all and, no matter how valid the reasons really are, is going to sound petty.

If you told me “Cellphone, I hate your wife.” Well, that would be a deal-breaker with no way of fixing it. I’m not going to leave my wife, I’m not going to enjoy hanging out with guys who don’t like my wife. So really, there’s no need to rub salt in the wounds. If I really, really wanted to know the details, I’d ask, but I probably wouldn’t I don’t need the list of what you think is deficient in my soul-mate.

To keep the peace, I think your later simple note with diplomatic language (no “accusation words”): “I’m sorry, I’m afraid we feel our personalities just don’t jibe with your wife’s and we feel uncomfortable.” That’s plenty.

119

What the fuck? This has been my position since this whole goddamn thread started.

120

I think this is much better than the drafts with examples. If he asks for any more information, ask him to call. In case she’s reading or writing the emails, and also because you don’t want anything more in writing.

Maybe change the wording, in case she Googles it? Or is that too paranoid?