Problems with SO's Children..what to do?

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

This is an issue that is threatening my relationship, and I could really use some advice. Anything is appreciated.
The story:

My SO is divorced and has custody of his two small sons (ages 2 and 5). I normally get along fine with the children, but recently the older one has started acting out, and making comments about missing his mother. (A bit of history: the children’s mother is an alcoholic stripper who lives in Georgia. My SO divorced her, got custody of the children and moved to Chicago. She was NEVER much of a mother) I had moved in with them in December, but moved back out in January when my SO and I began having problems. I just recently moved BACK in, and now the problem seems to be the five year old. He’s turning into a first class brat and told his father that he only liked me “a little bit”. His father seems to think that this stems from a birthday party at Chuck E Cheese about a month ago, when I accompanied the smaller child to play the games, but didn’t take the older one. However, I think (know) that it goes deeper than that.

Before he met me, my SO was involved with a woman in Georgia. He had told the children that this woman would be living in Chicago with them and that she would be their new mommy. The children were excited about it, I guess. Of course, then they met me. I was NOT who they expected, and I was not introduced as the new mommy, just daddy’s “girlfriend”. Naturally the older one, who understood a little more, was a little pissed. His father had prepared him for one her, and he got me. Add that to the fact that everybody he knows has a mommy and he only has daddy’s “girlfriend”.

So, he’s becoming a bit hard to handle, and it is straining their (father and son) relationship. And SO has been making comments that he thinks the best solution is for us to break up since his son obviously has a problem with our relationship. I personally think that this is a phase that the boy is going through and that he’ll eventually get over it. I think he’s just upset cuz he wanted a mommy and he doesn’t see me as a mommy to him. I think my SO is overreacting.

All this would be well and good if THE OTHER WOMAN wasn’t in the picture. Since my SO’s son was expecting this other woman to be here and be his mommy, I actually think my SO is considering it!!! I checked his emails a few days ago and found some things that have disturbed me quite a bit. It seems that they have been corresponding. He claims that he no longer has any feelings for this woman, but I think that he would pursue a relationship with her simply because he thinks it would make his son happy. Oh, I forgot to mention that this woman is a psycho who called my SO a couple of weeks ago and threatened to kill herself because he doesn’t love her anymore :rolleyes:

I don’t know what to do. I LOVE this man to death. I love his children too. But he’s very skittish, and makes a lot of quick decisions when he’s frustrated or confused. That’s why I think that he very well could decide to bring this woman here if he thinks that will make his son happy. We’ve talked about it and he just keeps telling me he doesn’t know what he’s going to do. I rented my house out when I moved in with him… so if we break up now, I have nowhere to go.

So… what do you guys think about this? I’ve picked the brains of all my friends and haven’t really come up with anything good. I am afraid to confront him about the other woman because then I’d have to explain why I was reading his emails in the first place. :eek:

Somedays we are perfect, like the brady bunch… but as soon as the boy begins to act up, my SO goes ballistic about how he feels guilty for “doing this” to him, etc. I think I’m having a nervous breakdown. This weekend, after we had one of our “talks”, he had to rush me to the hospital because my heart was racing and I couldn’t breathe. This can’t be healthy. :rolleyes:

HELP…PLEASE

Any advice is GREATLY appreciated.

2

First off, the five year old is angry. I recognize this from my own son after his father and I divorced. Angry about the divorce, angry at both his parents, angry at being, as he sees it, lied to about the other woman and as long as Daddy doesn’t make it clear that the other woman isn’t coming and isn’t going to be his new Mommy, he’s angry at you because he thinks (probably) that you’re the one keeping him from getting a new Mommy.

Dad was way wrong to tell the kids this other woman was going to be their new Mommy when he did. It’s been my experience that you don’t tell kids things like that until you know for absolute certain. Like bought the rings and set the date certain. The kid has a right to feel angry at Dad and he probably will be for awhile. Dad is feeling guilty and doesn’t know how to deal with angry child so he’s trying to make good on at least one promise. Bad idea number whatever. Kid picks up on Dad’s feelings and it just makes him angrier and yes, even kids that young can manipulate things to their advantage. My son was doing it to his Dad when he was three.

If the SO is really interested in saving yall’s relationship he’ll sit down with the kids and explain the situation. If he doesn’t stop this now it will just get worse. “Hey, I made Dad pick this Mommy. Wonder what else I can make him do?”

If this is what you want, be aware that the kids are going to continue to be angry for awhile. Not necessarily at you but it’ll feel like it. They have a lot to be angry for: divorce, move, new school, having to leave their friends, new home, being set up for one new Mommy and getting another. That’s a lot of stress for an adult to knows how to deal with it. Imagine being a kid.

Counseling for them may not be a bad idea. My son had it just to learn to express his anger appropriately. The counselor will also be able to help you and the SO deal with the problems of blending a family.

Best of luck to you all.

3

Everything you said makes sense, but I don’t know how to get it across to my SO!! He is so intent on not doing anything wrong, he reacts to quickly whenever he sees something out of wack. What do you suggest that I do to help out with the situation?

Also, what’s your take on the other woman situation?

4

First, you need to know, that is unlikely that the kid really dislikes you. Unless there’s more to the story that your telling us, you haven’t done anything to make the kid hate you. He’s using you as a target to get at his dad. That’s normal. The kid is 5, little kids are fairly easy to win over. If it makes you feel better, pick something the kid really likes (especially if it’s something he has been asking to do for a long time) and have a one on one afternoon with the 5 year old… don’t take the younger kid, and don’t take your SO… make it special, but make it a special time, not a gift or bribe. You’ll be surprised.

If your SO is frightened of doing anything “wrong” it might be fairly easy to convince him to go to a family therapist. Often adults have trouble estabilishing 2-way communication with small children, and professionals can help. If the kids go to daycare or preschool, talk to their teachers about the situation, believe me, teachers are familar with the problems and phases of kids going through traumatic experiences, they may be able to reassure your SO that what his kids are doing is “normal” parental manipulation (all kids do this to some degree…)

If he’s not into the whole formal scary therapy thing, try to get him to join a support group for single dads. There are lots around (especially in an urban area like Chicago) and understand that other father’s have been down this road, and learning from their experiences may really help him. If he’s not into that, make friends with other single parents, and have them over with their kids. anything to get your SO around other people who truely understand his concerns and can help him deal.

I hope things work out for you
-pandora

5

Well, other than the fact that pursuing a relationship just to make the 5 year old happy is a really bad idea for everyone involved, I’m not sure what to think. Talk about unhealthy relationships. Why would he consider a psycho for his kid’s stepmother?

Is it possible you’re overly sensitive because of the difficulties with the kid making it very stressful for everyone?

You’re going to have to sit down and talk calmly about this with no accusations and preferably alone. As it is now, it’s not fair to anyone. Kids react to stress by getting more stressed and it sounds like there’s lots of it already.

Suggest the counseling. Point out that it’s not a failing on his part, but the kids have been through a lot with the move and divorce and with everything else, they need to learn to deal with their anger and their fear before it effects school/daycare/whatever the situation is and then be supportive. Try to find things you can do with the kids so they get a chance to know you better. Bake cookies. Cut up magazines and make colleges. You’d be amazed at what you can find out is going through their heads with that activity.

Theresa
Who is not a family counselor but will be when she graduates in three semesters.

6

Ship them off to boarding school 'till they turn 18

7

Sorry I can’t be more delicate but you did ask for advice. Here is mine.

If all is as you have described you are making a huge, huge, huge mistake being in this relationship as it is currently constructed. I also realize you are a woman in love and nothing I can say will deter you from the suicidal, kamikaze course you are pursuing in this situation. The current scenario will have to practically beat you to death emotionally before you realize this is not the place you want to be.

Re your perspective “All this would be well and good if THE OTHER WOMAN wasn’t in the picture. Since my SO’s son was expecting this other woman to be here and be his mommy, I actually think my SO is considering it!!!”

However erratic or manipulative she may be you need to focus on the fact that the “other woman” is not the problem, your SO is for keeping her “in play”. If your SO’s priorities and common sense are so convoluted that he will consider injecting a potentially dangerous woman into an unstable situation because it will make his son “happy” in the near term you need to look at the larger, long term picture of how you fit into a lifestyle that is ruled by that quality of decision making when the rubber meets the road.

Furthermore, until and unless he can make a solid commitment to you and stop beating himself up (and you by extension) per your description “…but as soon as the boy begins to act up, my SO goes ballistic about how he feels guilty for “doing this” to him, etc.” it just going to be an emotional roller coaster ride.

As a last point, regarding your observation “But he’s very skittish, and makes a lot of quick decisions when he’s frustrated or confused.” He is a grown man. If you have any ideas that this behavior pattern will change because of your love, support etc you had best put these credulous notions aside. You will not change him and you cannot. If this is his MO under stress it will continue to be his MO under stress even when he is with you. It’s not fun living on an emotional knife’s edge.

8

sigh

Astro, you’ve just said what my friends have been telling me all along. What’s a girl to do? (ignoring the voice that says “dump his ass”)

Are you saying that you think there is NO way that this will work? I know you don’t know the whole story, but based on the OP, is that what you think?

Of course, being the “woman in love” that I am, I still have hope.

And plus, if I move out now, I’d be virtually homeless. As I stated in the OP, I’ve rented my house out…nowhere to go.

Excuse me while I go cry in my cornflakes.

9

Unfortunately yes. You need clarity and to get clarity in this situation you need to look at the fundamentals. Here you are, willing to invest yourself wholeheartly into a situation that will require amazing patience and sacrifice to work effectively and the SO whom you are head over heels for, is potentially, seriously considering “replacing” you with the previous model his 5 year old was originally promised to make his son more tractable. Your SO may be loveable and sexy and etc. etc. but are you seriously considering making a life with a man who thinks like this?

You make excuse after excuse for him because you love him. “It’s the other woman”. “It’s the stress”. It’s the heat… no wait it’s the humidity that makes him nervous, erratic and uncommittal. It may partially be any of these “things” but at root and in the end it’s HIM. A good man does not play emotional whack-a-mole with the feelings and expectations of a woman he truly cares for. This is what you need to understand.

Re lodgings:

You always have someplace to go. You are a good person and friends or relatives will be glad to put you up or using the income from the rental of your place get a short term apartment or take a room with someone temporarily. Granted it’s not “your place” but it will do until your place becomes freed up. You have options, perhaps not ideal options but they are real options.

10

A few observations…

First, it takes two. A couple things that caught my eye in your OP were: “the problem seems to be the five year old” I know this is a bit out of context, but the implication makes me shudder. astro made a good point. You seem to be making excuses for the SO. Please don’t lay the responsibility on the kid. Also, “I checked his emails a few days ago”. I’m not sure if this is standard procedure for you and your SO, but if it’s not, spying on him only reveals a lack of trust between the two of you, regardless of what you found out.

The child will be bitter. There’s not much you can do to alleviate that except weather it and try to be a good parent, if that’s the role you are assuming. In time, if things work out between your SO and you, the child will come around. You can give the child consideration without giving in to the child. Also, it’s important that the mother is never badmouthed, no matter how much of a loser she is. If you do that, you are badmouthing the child and the father by proxy, not to mention taking the defensive and, believe me, the child will see right through it.

I think the counseling suggestion was a good one but the most important thing you can do is talk to your SO and get him to talk. You can’t be shy where this kind of thing is concerned. My SO and I share a similar situation and absolute openess has been key in our success.

I’ve seen people make their lifestyle decisions based soley on their children’s whims and it NEVER works out. The big problem here seems to be the father’s unwillingness to take charge of his life and choose a direction. The five year old issue is just SOP in these cases. If I were you, I’d let the father know that he needs to make a decision soon about what he wants to do. Stringing this along will only make it harder on the children.

I wouldn’t even dream of saying there’s no way it would work. I’ve been in some pretty hairy situations with my SO and we have always found ways to make it work. The important thing is not to compromise your principles and morals in doing so, but to find a way to make it work for the both of you. You seem pretty panicky considering the hospital comment(I know how that is, I freak out pretty easily if I feel my relationship is at risk ;)), so make sure you are thinking everything through before you jump to conclusions. If there really is another woman in the romantic sense of the picture, that needs to end immediately. No progress will be made if he is considering someone else, especially on the basis of the child’s preference.

Good luck and, don’t give up, but don’t stick your head in the sand either.

11

I’ve always had it preached to me that the bottom line is making the kid happy: if a child doesn’t like his custodial parent’s SO, the SO goes. That sounds great on the face of it, but your SO can’t spend the next 13-16 years letting his son ruin every relationship he has. I hope that whatever happens, he (dad) comes to realize that.

12

Oh my God Rilchiam! Who says that? I’m a stepmother and my stepdaughter loathed my guts for 5+ years. She manipulated, lied and was a general PITA. However my SO stuck it out with me because the fact was she was gonna carry on like that regardless of who he was with.

She’s an adult with her own life now and we are still together. I have reservations about whether I would do it again.

IMO the adults have the relationship and as long as the stepparent is kind and respectful, then the kid has to learn to deal. If the stepparent is not good to the kid, then things need to be addressed but all things being equal, I don’t see why the parent has to put their adult life on hold. And a stepparent is not a Parent. Especially if the blood parents are still on the scene and actively involved. (apologies to those who are really Parents as well being stepparents ).

13

Red flags are going up all over the place here. I hate to say this. The relationship you describe shows multiple early warning signs of domestic abuse.

Don’t let this man suspect you’re having second thoughts. Make arrangements to rent a room somewhere. Get your things while he’s away. Take an unlisted telephone number. Inform your employer when (not if) he disturbs you at work.

Prepare yourself for the likelihood that you will need to will need to file telephone harassment complaints and seek a civil restraining order.

For more information dial this number: 1-800-799-SAFE.

14

I completely fail to see where the signs of potential domestic violence are.

It would be an awful thing for your boyfriend to make his decision based on his five year old. Running his father’s personal life is a huge responsibility for such a young one, and it ultimately will not breed respect for his father, or make for a happy child. I would hate to be involved with someone so wishy-washy that he would dump someone he loves, instead of trying to make things work between the three of you. I understand that you love him, but you need to be involved with someone who can make grown up decisions. Whether you stay with him or not, I really think that you should do your best to point out that it is not in the best interest of his child to allow him to pick who he dates. Consistently giving into children who do not have the life experience to make good decisions is not a good way to raise a child. He’s going to create more problems than he will solve by doing so.

15

I suppose an explanation is in order. Many early warning signs of impending domestic abuse are easy to miss.
“My SO is divorced and has custody of his two small sons (ages 2 and 5).”
By itself this is no smoking gun. However, abusive men are twice as likely as normal men to seek sole custody of their minor children.

“A bit of history: the children’s mother is an alcoholic stripper who lives in Georgia… She was NEVER much of a mother.”
What evidence does Citygirl have of this besides his word? It may be normal for people on the rebound to feel resentful toward their exes, but if he holds himself blameless for choosing a mate so poorly or uses these words in front of the children it’s a different matter.

“He had told the children that this [other] woman would be living in Chicago with them and that she would be their new mommy.”
Probably the most hurtful thing that a birth mother could hear is that somebody else will be her baby’s “new mommy.” At best it’s a hugely unrealistic expectation that’s unfair to the children and sets the situation up for failure.

“He claims that he no longer has any feelings for this woman, but I think that he would pursue a relationship with her simply because he thinks it would make his son happy. Oh, I forgot to mention that this woman is a psycho who called my SO a couple of weeks ago and threatened to kill herself because he doesn’t love her anymore.”

  1. No decent man with small children to protect would have anything to do with someone like that.
  2. Domestic abuse and cheating go hand in hand.
  3. This man is divorced with a two-year-old and Citygirl is his second relationship since the breakup? Abusive relationships often start as whirlwind romances. Since she’s already living with him it sounds like the relationship has been rushed, not a healthy sign.

“…if I move out now, I’d be virtually homeless. As I stated in the OP, I’ve rented my house out…nowhere to go.”
Domestic abusers lay plenty of groundwork before the real trouble begins. Among the most essential is to lead the victim-to-be into situations where leaving the relationship becomes difficult. One way of doing this is if the victim-to-be gives up her home. Another would be to move her away from employment, friends, and family (as in relocating from Georgia to Chicago).

“Somedays we are perfect, like the brady bunch… but as soon as the boy begins to act up, my SO goes ballistic…”
Jekyll and Hyde behavior is typical of abusers. They usually try to appear like ideal mates when they first meet a partner.

“I think I’m having a nervous breakdown. This weekend, after we had one of our “talks”, he had to rush me to the hospital because my heart was racing and I couldn’t breathe. This can’t be healthy.”
That sounds like a panic attack and it sounds like a new thing for Citygirl. One of the precursors to abuse is called “gaslighting” after an old Ingrid Bergman film. The abuser throws the victim-to-be off kilter with his erratic behavior, often combined with sleep deprivation and poor nutrition. Panic attacks can result. The aims of gaslighting are to train the victim to distrust her own judgement and to keep her so distracted that she fails to leave a deteriorating situation.
What Citygirl describes is fairly typical of what domestic abuse survivors later relate about the early part of their relationships, usually with self-reproaches for not having seen the trouble coming. Domestic abuse takes many forms.

I cannot urge strongly enough that she contact an abuse advocate or support group to research this for herself. sincerely hope I’m mistaken about this, but the signs have me very worried.

16

scampering gremlin, I’m sorry, but it sounds like you may have issues that are tainting your view of this situation. Your explanations above border on the absurd.

Primaflora, wow, I was in total agreement with you until you said:

You couldn’t be more wrong with that, especially using it as a blanket statement. I am personally involved with two great cases demonstrating this:

The first is psycat and my relationship. I feel that I provide the children with a very much needed father figure, as well as guiding their growth and development, mental and physical, and also nurturing and emotional support. If that’s not being a parent, I don’t know what is.

The second is my children’s step-father. I feel he provides many of the same things to my children. (Grrr ;))

The first case is a case where the natural father is not involved (at least in the parenting aspect). The second case is a case where the natural father (me) is involved in the parenting aspect.

I know for a fact there are at least three other people in my situation on this board who are very much parents to their step-children. I think they’d feel the same way.

17

I’m still thinking about this. There’s something that’s bothering me.

I think, if you intend on marrying someone with children, in most cases at least, there is a certain obligation to assume some parental roles. I know this is not true in everyone’s situation, especially those with older children, but from my experience, this is generally true. This doesn’t ever mean that you are supplanting the other parent, it just means you become an additional parent.

My philosophy has always been, even if the other parent is a spouse-beating, murdering, crack-addict, to always tell the children things like, “I’m sure your [other parent] loves you, even though they are having a hard time showing you right now.” The minute you try and take away that parent, you are hurting the child. The child can only come to that conclusion for themselves. The interesting thing is that it works the same the other way around. You can;t make a child love/like you. You have to be yourself and wait for the child to accept you. That doesn’t mean you let the child have their way, just don’t try to force the relationship.
Hmm, anyway, I may have been going off on a tangent there for a bit. Sorry. This whole thing just got me thinking about those kids.

18

Good gracious! I’m not a big fan of how this relationship is constructed based on the reasons I already discussed but to start the klaxon horn of incipient domestic “abuse” based on a standard description of a typical high stress, post divorce new relationship where absolutely no evidence of physical abuse has been tendered is irresponsible and borders on the absurd. This “hair trigger” attitude re incipient abuse is why people can get away with real abuse as abuse advocates are not taken seriously after awhile in that if “everything” is abuse then nothing is abuse.

Quite honestly your attitude is so aggressive about defining abuse into a situation it frightens me. I can only pray that you are not a service worker or professional in this field.

19

That a man cares enough about his kids to try to gain custody makes him a BAD father?

First, we don’t know all the details. You make an awful lot of prejudgements based on your own imagination. She never said he uses those words “in front of the children”. And lots of people make poor choices concerning who to date. It’s unfortunate, but not a character flaw indicating abuse.

Yeah, I agree with you here. The only place in this entire barren wasteland of a post where we agree.

Nobody said he’s cheating. Or do you consider cheating to be any conversation with somebody other than your spouse?
And so what if she’s the second relationship since the breakup? My girlfriend is my first relationship since a really ugly breakup ending a bad relationship (with a girl who incidentally was a stripper). Does that make me abusive? Does it mean we shouldn’t bother? Equine fecal matter.

That’s right. Make it sound all premeditated. You seem like you think he’s been stalking her, and she’s Nell getting tied to the railroad tracks by Snidely Whiplash or something.

Jekyll and Hyde behavior is typical of abusers. They usually try to appear like ideal mates when they first meet a partner…**
[/quote]

Jekyll and Hyde behavior is typical of humans. EVERYBODY tries to appear like the ideal mate when they first meet.

falling victim to his nefarious plot to overthrow society!! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!One of the precursors to abuse is called “gaslighting” after an old Ingrid Bergman film. The abuser throws the victim-to-be off kilter with his erratic behavior, often combined with sleep deprivation and poor nutrition…**
[/QUOTE]

And then again, maybe it’s genuine stress over a difficult situation. But it’s trenty to vilify men.

What color is the sky on your planet? You seem to have a weak grip on reality and think that we’re all just evil brutes out to hurt the poor women. When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail, doesn’t it?

20

Astro and Democritus, I sincely hope you are both right and that my concerns are way out of line.

I see no evidence that this man is violent either. Abuse also takes many nonviolent forms. This does not appear to be an abusive relationship now. I hope it never becomes one.

When a post-divorce, high stress relationship reaches the point where one party rushes to the hospital with an apparent panic attack things stop looking typical to me. Add one alcoholic stripper and another suicidal ex-in-reserve and the picture definitely does not paint the Brady Bunch.

Assuming that all you believe is correct, I’d still be wary about joining this family portrait. These two children need stability. Neither of their parents are providing it. Citygirl does not appear to be in a position to fill that gap either. The boyfriend’s continued contact with his other ex indicates that the present relationship is very fragile. In the best of scenarios Citygirl could look forward to many years of awkward challenges where the children’s natural mother is concerned.

I’m sorry to say that I’m not so optimistic. Perhaps as you think I’m viewing this through a tainted lens. I hope you’re also willing to consider that the actual warning signs of future abuse–while themselves distinctive–are very different from what the average person presumes. That misunderstanding is one of the reasons why abusers can continue to create fresh victims.