It sounds to me like women should negotiate exactly the same as men to be more successful. In one sense I see that makes salary negotiation strategy a professional issue, or more correctly a gender-neutral issue. The real gender issue in this case is education. Or maybe even assertiveness/confidence.
I think it’s assertiveness/confidence and to a much lesser degree, education. Pretty much in terms of, we don’t really teach girls how to negotiate at all. I’ve had girlfriends (single, no BF) come to me crying out of frustration because they were trying to buy or sell a car and were so intimidated by the process. I’ve helped more than one friend buy her car. Seems like it’s really a socialization thing more than education.
I was brought up by a motorcycle racer/mechanic who took me to the track every single weekend. I spent my youth around bikers and gearheads, so I’m very comfortable in a mostly-guy environment, discussing things like the merits of a Wankel engine over a traditional 4-cylinder. My role models for how to communicate, negotiate and assert myself came from very unorthodox sources that most little girls do not get exposed to.
Lisa Barron at UC Irvine has done some research on the salary negotiating issue by gender.
Well, that certainly supports my experience. I’m asking for even more next time!
Do we teach boys how to negotiate? Perhaps I’m unusual in this regard (I’m certainly unusual in other regards), but nobody ever taught me anything about negotiation.
we all know that successful career women tend to look fit and healthy while overweight minimum wage women are found to predominate the aisles of Walmart.
That is a fact, and though there are successful overweight women that I have admired and respected, they tend to have compensated with superior grooming and character.
Dress for success applies to men as well as women. Unfortunately for women, men are not as socially stigmatized for excess poundage.
The other fact is that successful men like to have fit and healthy women in their workplace circle of successful participants.
If you are a take no prisoners career oriented woman, you have to respect what it takes to climb the ladder. Crying foul is for losers.
Maybe not specifically, but boys are introduced to conflict and competition, and contests of wills, to a far greater extent than girls. Boys are taught to stand up and hold their ground. Girls, not so much.
I keep thinking this thread title is Professional Women Flora, and that they need some antibiotics.
If they are optimists, why are they so sore about it?
In my experience the whole weight issue can be sidestepped by learning how to give good handshakes.
Why is women in quotes in the title?
Losing weight can improve an overweight woman’s career prospects in much the same way that getting taller and regrowing hair could help a short, bald man.
The difference is that men can’t do much about the hand they are dealt. I don’t know if that is better or worse. In any case, you can bet that if diet and exercise could increase height and regrow hair, it would be very relevant to professional men.
Never mind negotiation skills, anyone working for me would not be getting a raise in any year I saw them using “hire standard of appearance” or “{things that} effect a career trajectory”. 
Well, those things do effect a career trajectory – by changing a previously unmoving career into one with a downward trajectory.
Eh I can see both ways. On one hand maintaining a healthy weight is important for both genders, but women probably receive more crap for being overweight. On the other hand, having the professional women fora talk about weight loss kind of reinforces the “women have to be pretty” idea that causes women to receive more crap for being overweight in the first place.
It turned into more of an MPSIMS than a Pit, but I did need to curse.
I did leave the forum I was bitching about. I still read the one that asks for advice on encouraging girls to consider the STEM professions.
I must say that BrainGlutton and FlyingDutchman’s posts express my frustration perfectly. Thank you.
For my brothers that do not understand, imagine Hair Club for Men spam on professional boards - that’s a real WTF, isn’t it? I like advice on current ‘power’ fashions and which semi-automatic goes best with which hard-hat - but these are not professional issues. Do you expect to see ‘Don’t do the Comb Over’ posts?
Ah, those steel toed shoes come in red now. Really.
(I was actually speaking of visitors, who are not allowed in the hard-hat zones - I believe hard-hats, like Glocks, come in pink now - but still have to walk through the mud and the blood and the beer to get to the office trailer.)
msmith537:
In my experience, the hot fat chick gets the job before the hot skinny chick. I still don’t want ‘dress for success’ spam on my professional boards.
Kevbo:
Eating right and exercising is so easy in business travel; you can order the $25 salad because the company is paying, and the business hotels always have exercise rooms with no spouse or child interrupting to ask if you’ve seen their car keys or homework.
I don’t see anything wrong with hair loss posts on job sites, especially not in the context of presentation. “Don’t do the combover” seems appropriate to me. Certainly not offensive. “Bald is better than a bad toupee, which is most of them” would also be relevant, I’d think.
It might even be more relevant for younger guys. eg: Ditch the ponytail, get a grown-up’s haircut.
[quote=“Ellis_Dee, post:36, topic:567546”]
I don’t see anything wrong with hair loss posts on job sites, …QUOTE]
I have been unclear; these are not job boards. They are boards for discussion issues of professional interest, such a proposed changes in regulations, new research, that kind of thing.
If body language is on-topic, body presentation (weight and hair loss) is also on-topic.
Wait, you mean there aren’t any posts about babbies? How is it supposed to be a professional women’s forum if they don’t talk about babbies?
Well, j66, I’m with you on this one.
A professional development conference is not an issue of Cosmo, and it’s belittling to treat it like one. We know what Weight Watchers is, and if we need some weight loss tips it’s not like the world is short of them. Let’s get back to the workplace, please.