Protecting thy Lady's honor. Machismo BS or not?

In My Humble Opinion
1

I’m currious on people opinion on this:

To give you an example of what I’m talking about this is something that happened with me and my ex-wife years ago.

We were up at the local bar one night. It was just me, my wife and about five other guys there.

The topic of conversation was Hispanic imigrants. To which some of the gentlemen start spewing out asinine crap like: “If you can’t learn to speak english then move back to Mexico!” This diatribe was peppered with all sorts of pejorative slang that I won’t repeat here.

My wife got upset by this nasty talk and proceeded to tell the guy doing most of the talking: “You know what you’re saying is just plane stupid. I have three children that are half Mexican are you suggesting…”

The main Asshole guy then interupts her in a mocking way “Ooo, look at me. I’ve got Mexican kids. Aren’t I special.”

My wife then shuts up and stops talking to the guy. It should also be said the the A-hole guy stopped antagonizing the situation any further as well.

It was at this point my wife starts in on me (privately as we sat at the bar) that I should have SAID something and put this dude in his place. I asked: “Why? What good could possibly come of this?” I mean really. Why try to talk sense to anyone who’s THAT stupid to begin with.

She persisted. She was very adamant that I needed say something to protect her “honor”.

About five minutes later, after hearing my wife give ME what for; I begrudgingly said something to the guy. Which was: “Hey, dude, I don’t appreciate you talking to my wife like that.” To which HIS response was “Fuck you man [jumps off bar stool with his chest all puffed out] you wanna take it outside?”

I told him “No, I not going to fight you. I just don’t want you talking to my wife lke that”

At this point the bartender steps in and tells A-hole guy he needs to leave immediately. To which he does but not before he tells me: “I’ll be waiting outside”

Now, when it comes to situations like this. Is there really any need to say something to defend her honor? Especialy when all one has to do to diffuse the situation is shut-up and let it go?

Would it really have been worth getting my ass kicked or even worse, going to jail for fighting just to defend her honor?

I understand the “I’m a big strong manly man” when your a teenager or 20-something. But to do this as full grown adults?

What gives?

2

Getting in a fight when you’re a full grown adult over some drunk asshole’s snide remarks, I’d say no.

However, there is something to be said for defending a lady’s honor, like the time a bum who had been annoying the crowd sitting outside a local bar grabbed an acquaintance’s boob, and her boyfriend gave him what for of the fist-in-your-face variety. So with any type of physical/sexual assault, I’m all for a good old-fashioned beat down. Assuming he’s not gigantic and you have a reasonable chance of hauling ass before the cops get there, and there is some sort of self-defense/defense of others argument that would hold up in court.

3

In a Word, no. I would never expect someone else to fight my battles for me. You’re absolutely right about silence being the best defuser.
Of course, I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man, so I probably would have simply laughed to myself at his asshattery.

4

Yikes. I’m female, and if I had been in that situation I would definitely would NOT have wanted you to do anything to escalate the situation. It would have been pretty stupid to get in a physical fight over something like that, when you know perfectly well the idiot isn’t going to change his mind no matter what you say or do.
I think the only time I would appreciate it if a man intervened and tried to fight someone for me would be if someone was actually being physically aggressive towards me (like the boob-grabbing incident mentioned in the prior reply). I do sometimes need a stronger man to protect me phsyically. But I think most of us can agree that women can hold their own in verbal fights. :slight_smile:

5

I believe 100% in protecting a lady’s honor (have done so and will do so in the future if need be), however the setup you describe is not even remotely related to you protecting her honor.

Frankly, and I hope I’m not overstepping any boundaries here, your wife should have kept her mouth shut in that situation. That’s very immature behavior, and it reminds me a lot of a young lass manipulating two bucks into fighting for her own enjoyment. I understand she could have been upset by the man’s statement, but what did she hope to accomplish (other than a confrontation between you and them apparently). Sounds to me like the guy was posturing a bit for his buddies and was taken aback by your wife. If she said that to the wrong group of guys there could have been serious repercussions.

She could have ended up getting you (or her) seriously hurt and hopefully she has/will realize that.

6

Not cool of your wife to try to put you in a position where physical violence was a real possibility (especially since the guy seemed to have friends there). The notion of defending a woman’s honor is pretty anachronistic, and seems to date from a time when it was thought that the only asset a woman had was her honor (and her womb). I would no more expect her to defend your honor than for you to defend hers; IMO to disagree with this is to admit a condescending double-standard with respect to women.

7

A husband and a wife should not defend one another’s honor? If they can’t be expected to do so, then who can?

You defend the honor of people you care about, or in certain cases (for example, assault) a stranger’s honor. I don’t see where a condescending double-standard comes into play.

8

I usually defend my own honor, but it’s nice to know your loved ones “have your back” if you need it, also. I reciprocate as well.

9

Well, I suppose I spoke too quickly. Obviously there are circumstances where you should speak up–but not b/c the person you are defending is a woman, or has honor which needs defending. Rather, because a human being is being treated like shit by another person, and that shouldn’t be tolerated in civilized society. But the whole idea of ‘defending someone’s honor’ has condescending sexist connotations to me; I wouldn’t cast it in those terms at all. Sure, if someone were to be verbally abusive to my wife or daughter I would intervene–not b/c of their honor, but because I don’t like to see people I love get treated like crap.

But I still think it was not cool of **SHAKES’ ** wife to encourage him to get into a (possibly violent) confrontation.

10

Especially over something like this. I understand she was fired up because her kids are half-Mexican, but getting into this whole “defending my honor” stuff is kind of pointless over that. It’s not like if the OP intervened, they’d say, “I have racist attitudes and must repent immediately! How wrong I was!” If the guys were harassing her in ways that made her scared or humiliated (verbal sexual harassment, etc.) then that’s another matter.

I agree with the value of supporting your spouse, but actually expecting him to get into it with some drunk yahoos over an issue like that is foolish. That’s not defending her “honor,” it’s asking for a beatdown in a parking lot, and if more than one of those guys was out there and they beat up her husband, what would happen to her?

11

My wife wouldn’t have had to ask me to defend her honor. And the drunk asshole wouldn’t have made it “outside” either, at least not under his own power.

12

Kicking some drunk moron’s ass over this scenario would be nearly as stupid as getting your own ass kicked (though perhaps less painful). What good could come of it? Not to mention that the wife’s honor was never called into question in this case. I think SHAKES handled everything reasonably well and his wife needs to evaluate the concept of risk versus reward.

13

I am a woman, and I don’t start things that I don’t intend to finish myself. By “things” I mean verbal confrontations in bars. I’m not going to take a swing at anyone. I see a huge difference between someone jumping in on my side of the argument with their two cents about Mexican immigration (if they are so inclined), and scolding someone for talking to me in a certain way. The scolding tactic would make me feel like I was about six years old and unable to conduct myself in adult company.

This is based on the OP, a verbal confrontation that the wife took the initiative to insert herself in. If the threat was physical, I’d certainly expect other people to get involved, but it would need to be about protecting my safety, not my honor. And if it was someone else in that scenario, I’d get involved as well to help another person.

14

“Remember – we’re fighting for this woman’s honor, which is probably more than she ever did.”

(Quoting that is mandatory.)

15

bolding mine

You know these are EXACTLY my thoughts but I’ve never been able to put them succently as you have.
Also: I don’t know why this (wife vs ex-wife) is bothering me so much but I feel compelled to clarify that this is an EX-WIFE I’m talking about.

16

If that was typical behavior, then you’re well rid of her. Discretion is the better part of valor, just like the bard penned four hundred years ago.

17

I think protecting someone physically or intellectually at their request is fine and dandy. But this has nothing to do with honor. No one’s “honor” is besmirched by a drunken disagreement about immigration with racist idiots.

I’ve been known to play the “weak yet smart female” card and ask my biggest scariest male friend to puff out his chest and look intimidating to scare off some creep who wouldn’t take no for an answer on the dance floor. I’ve also played the “you know so much more than I about the exports of medieval France, Janet, would you mind chiming in on this discussion?” card. In these cases, it’s not about my “honor”, but about someone else being better suited than I to the task at hand. Has nothing to do with my virtue as a woman, and everything to do with my friends having my back!

18

Oh, I hate all the big man defending your “honor” shit. I dated a guy like that when I was in college. You know how the bar scene is at a university…not the most civilized of places. If any guy so much as brushed past me, he’d get all up in their face about “pushing” a woman. God forbid I actually got in a little debate with someone. I couldn’t stand it and I let him know that clearly and often. He just couldn’t get it through his head that I can stand up for myself. That relationship didn’t last very long. Thankfully, the guy I actually ended up marrying is perfectly confident in my abilities as a real, live adult person. People like your ex-wife just kill me. If you’re ever in this position again, tell the woman to stop starting things she can’t finish herself.

19

I actually had to laugh when I read the OP. I feel for you. Your ex-wife was a little confused about how the “protect my honour” thing works.

I am a very loud-mouthed bitch. There have been many times I have gotten myself into situations where a stranger (usually a man) has offered to “beat the shit out of” me. My husband used to think he should step in, and was usually afraid he was going to get beaten up (for some reason, it is usually very large redneck men). I finally got it through his head that if I start something, I plan on finishing it. Even if I end up in the hospital :smiley: Truth is, most men end up backing down when they realise that they cannot bully/intimidate me.

Now, on the other hand, if I am not present and someone is besmirching my name/honour, I absolutely do expect him to “defend my honour.” This really only happens with his mother, though…

From a (quite old-fashioned) female, you are only required to defend my honour if a) I am not present when it is being besmirched or b) I didn’t start the chit. YMMV

20

What the hell has a bunch of drunks yammering in a bar have to do with defending anyone’s “honor”?