. . . and Hugh Brannum just rolled over in his grave.
Those of you with perfect children shall cast the first stone at Dangerosa. Step up…c’mon don’t crowd, please form a queue to the left. What, there’s none of you. Well there may be some of you that think you have perfect children, but I digress.
I don’t know Dangerosa, other than reading her posts for the last decade and a half or so. She sounds like a lot of parents, especially with children that somehow don’t meet our expectations. Trust me, if you aren’t a parent, when I say, when our kids make decisions and life choices that we don’t comprehend or understand, we tend to first question ourselves, how did we fail them, what should we have done differently. I don’t see anything different in Dangerosa.
I’m in no way trying to start a pile-on, I’m asking a question. Which I’m doing here for three reasons: 1) A moderator said that this is the proper forum for it, the fact that it’s the Pit is not my fault, it’s the fault of the often convoluted and non-nonsensical rules of the SDMB. 2) Dangerosa doesn’t talk about these things in PMs, she talks about them in public, so that’s what I’m doing as well. 3) There’s value in a robust discussion. On the occasions this has been brought up to her, she’s provided one hand waving post, and the matter is dropped. Here it won’t be dropped because it’s the subject of the discussion.
And BTW, I DO have concern for this kid. I believe he is defiant and I believe he has a substance abuse problem. I believe this has caused heartbreak for his family. But I find her talk about how “different” he is from them, and how he doesn’t fit into their family to be heartbreaking as well. Whether you like sports or good cinema isn’t what a family is about. Hammering on all the time about how different he is, and listing these trivial examples makes it seem like these things actually matter to her. If they do matter, then that’s appalling, and yes, she should know that. And if they don’t, then she really needs to know that that’s how it’s coming across.
Well that’s the way to miss the point…this has zero to do with whether she raised perfect children. The issue is how she discusses them on this message borad. I have two children, both with behavioral/emotional health issues. One of them has issues similar to my own, the other one doesn’t. When I’m discussing this with whomever, I don’t say over and over and over that the one child is just different. You know, not like the rest of the family. Essentially, an outsider and someone I can’t possibly relate to. This is how her posts about her family come across to me.
What was improper about how I quoted you?
And why on earth would you say I was drunk - unless you’re just flailing around trying to find something, anything, that will “stick.”
I had 2 alcoholic drinks on Friday night. I’m fairly sure the effects would have worn off by the time I posted. When I post from my iPad, as I am now, I make more typos and shorter posts, and don’t quote as much because it’s a pain in the neck.
In fact, I’m posting from my iPad now. Why? Because I’m on the train on the way to my nice corporate job. I bring that up because I really appreciate many of Dangerosa’s contributions to the board. She doesn’t mind admitting that she lives in an upper-middle-class world similar to mine and has corporate work experience. Regardless of the particulars, I value the comments of ANYBODY that lives out in the real world far more than I value yours.
Nope. To paraphrase GusNSpot’s comment from the thread I linked above, “If three people tell you you have a tail, maybe it’s time to take a look.” Posting it publically better serves my purpose of getting her to reconsider her favoritism. She’s dismissed previous attempts.
Obvious to whom? If Sarafeena wanted to discuss the matter further, which is absolutely kosher under any possible interperetation of board rules, both de facto and de jure, she had no choice but to continue it in the Pit.
Thank you for the kind words, sir. I must point out, however, that ShelliBean was awesome and I miss her lots. Her suggestion for sneaking scotch into a “dry” wedding by using one of those urinary collection bags some folks have to wear under their clothes was nothing short of genius.
And BTW, I have family experience that is very, very similar to Dangerosa’s. Almost exactly. So, I know what it’s like for parents going through this. I just don’t think she knows how much it’s coming across as disappointment IN him and not disappointment FOR him.
To further elaborate, it sometimes seems very much as though the depression her daughter has is an acceptable mental health issue, and that is somehow more in line with their “values,” whereas the addiction problems her son has is a character flaw. This is what bothers me. He is no more in control of his problem than her daughter is of hers. Nor did either of them choose which one to have. The fact that she talks about them so differently here on this board makes me afraid for how it’s coming across in real life.
I’ve never gotten this impression about Dangerosa. Saying one kid is “different” seems value-neutral to me. If you have a kid who really is different, it seems healthier to acknowledge that and make it clear that “different” isn’t the same as “doesn’t belong”. I think they go out of their way to appreciate him on his own terms and to try to find a way forward that he’s interested in.
I think it’s worse to try to cram a kid into your vision of what a “people like us” are like–to talk a kid out of college, if that’s not what the family does, to insist a kid play team sports in a team sports family, to force a kid into college when they don’t want to go, and refuse to help them find another path to a sustainable lifestyle, to push a kid into or out of the military . . the list is endless. That’s what makes a kid feel inferior or like a failure.
And as far as the substance abuse goes, I do feel like she’s talked about it in a clinical fashion. I think people are projecting here.
Dangerosa has also said that her son is a “talented athlete”. Now, I know it’s not the 1970s any more; stoners and jocks are not anathema to each other. But I would think that someone who is “immersed in drugs” would either get cut from whatever team they were on for failure to perform/show up on time/pass a drug test if any. Or they would drift away from sports of their own accord because it was cutting into their getting-high time.
I also would like to know how a 10 y/o even finds drugs, much less has a schedule that will permit him to smoke up, or whatever he was allegedly doing, without his parents noticing and putting a stop to it. And I don’t just mean putting a stop to the drug use itself; I mean putting a stop to a 10 y/o hanging out with shady people, in dangerous parts of town, at all hours, and all that’s required to be “immersed in drugs”. I know Dangerosa’s family does not live in the hood, and 10 y/o usually have a curfew, if they’re allowed to be out on their own at all, so I’m puzzled as to how he had enough freedom at that age to develop a drug habit.
I’ll snap up that bait … of course my children are perfect … I can tell by just how much they disappoint me … none of them are doing anything close to what I wanted for them … hell, half of them won’t even call me on Mother’s Day and none of them snot-nosed disrespectful brats will sit and smoke pot with me … complete and utter disappointments … ever since they became adults, they’ve been acting like fucking adults … how rude …
Perfect children in the sense they pursue their own dreams … not my dreams … but their dreams … I’ll never understand, but then again, my own parents never understood my dreams … maybe that’s the way it’s supposed to be
I don’t have anything for Dangerosa … I’d actually be more concerned if she wasn’t thinking this way … the first step to solving a problem is admitting we have a problem … so if we’re already at the point of introspection … I would have great confidence that her two children are growing up just fine …
That is NOT what I said. I only expressed some ambivalence about Green Bean’s post. I probably wouldn’t have done as she did, but that doesn’t mean what she did was wrong.
Don’t try to use me to make your argument more compelling. I’m not on your side.
Who says they didn’t put a stop to it? That’s exactly how this sort of thing happens: you catch a kid at 10 stealing a beer or whatever, you give him hell, you switch things around, and then two years later, you catch him doing something else. You change things, you get him treatment, you talk to a shrink, you do what they say, things get better, then, bam, a year later you find a bag of weed. She didn’t say he continuously used drugs, just that this has been an on-going battle.
You really are an asshole BigT, you know that?
She said “immersed in drugs”. And she said “from about the age of ten”. How many times does it have to be said that people can only respond to the posts they read, and the way those posts are worded.
Speaking as a poster, the issue is not whether she is a perfect parent or her kids are perfect kids. I have seen exactly what Sarafeena and Green Bean are talking about.
The language she uses to describe her daughter’s successes, failures, and tribulations is consistently empowering, positive, and validating.
The language she uses to describe her son’s successes, failures, and tribulations is consistently minimizing, negative, and invalidating.
Her language pulls her daughter into the fold of the family while is leaves her son on the outside. Yes, children should be allowed to be different and that should be recognized. But when the differences are not supported and validated to the degree the similarities are, then we have a problem. I have never seen her celebrate her son’s athletic or gaming successes to the degree she celebrates her daughters liberalism. When her daughter flouts authority she is celebrated but when her son gets in trouble he is put down for it. Yes, not every example is equal, but I’ve yet to see a post where she is unequivocally in his corner while it is obvious she delights in who her daughter is.
My son is gamer and my daughter an artist and a beautiful singer. I’m no gamer and certainly no artist, but that doesn’t make me feel that my kids are separate from me- it’s fun that they are doing things I never expected them to do and have learned from them. I just wish she could see that, at least what she writes here, there is a palpable gulf between she and her son and a tremendous closeness with her daughter.
FWIW, I say this with empathy and kindness- sometimes we don’t see what is going on until someone holds a mirror up.
Thank you, IvoryTowerDenizen, that was very very well said. Exactly right.
Sorry for misspelling your name!
LOL, happens all the time! Makes it hard to vanity search, boo.
It’s really the support of one child and lack of support of the other that is hard for me to read. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a post that expressed pride in her son’s talents, it’s never “love to see my kid playing sports, he’s such a natural,” it’s always “my son’s athletic and that’s something the rest of us just aren’t into.”
I think about this topic an awful lot.
My daughter graduated top of her high school class then went on to get her BS in nursing, again graduating top of her class. She worked in a hospital for a year, then applied for a job as a charge nurse. She got the job, beating out an RN with decades of experience. She does volunteer work with very sick children, is politically active, etc.
My son, meanwhile, dropped out of high school for a year before being persuaded to return and barely graduate. He did not even consider college, instead working a few different minimum wage jobs. Currently he is a Corrections Officer at a prison in Florida, a job that freaks me the fuck out, but he likes it and is excelling.
Two very different kids. I love them both more than I can express. I go out of my way to sneak brag about both of them (no matter how hard my son makes this:D). My biggest hope is that they are both happy, and at this point it seems they are.
ETA: I hope this post doesn’t sound too clinical, as I tend toward that, but I am sitting here teary eyed.