Random Mafia

[Meeko]

@Drain_Bead

as a co-Mason with him in Cecil Pond, I was pulling my hair out when he claimed with no real pressure on him to do so.

Not that I expect you to ever, ever understand, but I was pulling my hair out not being open with being a mason.

[special_ed]

vote Meeko

[Drain_Bead]

@Meeko

Not that I expect you to ever, ever understand, but I was pulling my hair out not being open with being a mason.

I know it can be stressful to be confirmable Town and have others not trust you, but you gotta learn to suck it up. First off, there are always going to be people pretending not to trust you. Second, it’s best for your team that you do not claim unless forced.

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

Wait, so Meeko was giving me a bunch of grief over something that he’s done himself in the past (claim Mason under no pressure) with even less reason to do so than I had? At least my information helped (I think) to flush Tom out.

I also find it interesting that I’m the last Mason standing. Why kill off TexCat and Guiri first? It could be because of a lot of things not having anything to do with me in particular. It could be because I’m a sub and the scum think I have a bit of a handicap because of that. It could be because I’ve been fairly public in giving Meeko the benefit of the doubt. It could be reverse psychology wifom, or none of the above. But Meeko’s reaction does ring a bit hollow if I’m understanding you, Drain.

[Red_Skeezix]

@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies

Wait, so Meeko was giving me a bunch of grief over something that he’s done himself in the past (claim Mason under no pressure) with even less reason to do so than I had? At least my information helped (I think) to flush Tom out.

I don’t think the situation is as analogous as has been presented. In the Cecil Pond game, Meeko was carrying a layer of background suspicion due to some fast paced vote switching and attempted abrogation of accountability. Had Meeko not claimed, all it would have taken was a day where there wasn’t much else to go on and he would have been forced into a claim anyways.

[Drain_Bead]

@Red_Skeezix

I don’t think the situation is as analogous as has been presented. In the Cecil Pond game, Meeko was carrying a layer of background suspicion due to some fast paced vote switching and attempted abrogation of accountability. Had Meeko not claimed, all it would have taken was a day where there wasn’t much else to go on and he would have been forced into a claim anyways.

Yeah, but at the time he was getting no heat whatsoever, and his claim led to a whole lotta bad shit going down, pretty much. He may have eventually been forced to claim, but he was certainly not forced then…and I would expect him, of all people, to have been somewhat sympathetic to what you and TexCat did. (You see what I did there?)

This is an interesting defense of Meeko by Red here. I know that someone I think is Scum is voting for him, but I think he’s Scum too, and damn if I don’t think that killing Meeko will give us more info than killing damn near anyone.

vote Meeko

[Meeko]

@Drain_Bead

This is an interesting defense of Meeko by Red here. I know that someone I think is Scum is voting for him, but I think he’s Scum too, and damn if I don’t think that killing Meeko will give us more info than killing damn near anyone.

Wait.

Wait.
**
Wait.**

You are Voting me, because of something Red said, about a different Game??! :eek:

No Dice.

OMGUS or whatever.

I think it is a fact that all death reaveals are info for the town.

But, you know, I just want to be there [paradoxically] when Drain gets this one wrong.

Vote Drain.

[Meeko]

NETA: Et tu Ed.

[special_ed]

@Meeko

NETA: Et tu Ed.

I know Meeko, your OMGUSes are remarkably consistent Scum or Town.

[special_ed]

Copying and adding to Rysto’s work:

Day One

**peekercpa **(4): [del]Zeriel 151 190[/del], [del]TexCat 314 356[/del], Chronos 360, Meeko 383, Freudian Slit 478, Mahaloth 482
**KellyCriterion ** (3): NAF1138 313, Jimmy Chitwood 484, Tom Scud 571
**Chronos ** (3): [del]storyteller0910 416 564[/del], peekercpa 450, storyteller0910 [COLOR=Black]590, MHaye [/COLOR]591
Drain Bead (2): Zeriel 560, special ed 565
TexCat (1): Red Skeezix 316, [del]Tom Scud 328 571[/del], [del]peekercpa 346 450[/del]
Oredigger77 (1): Drain Bead 347
**Red Skeezix **(1): TexCat 356, [del]Freudian Slit 364 478[/del]
**Zeriel **(1): [del]storyteller0910 564 567[/del], One And Only Wanderers 570
**Rysto **(1): GuiriEnEspaña 576
Freudian Slit (1): Rysto 577
**NAF1138 **(0): [del]One And Only Wanderers 179 288[/del], [del]KellyCriterion 242 244[/del]
**storyteller0910 **(0): [del]peekercpa 116 201[/del]
One And Only Wanderers (0): [del]Chronos 180 360[/del], [del]Jimmy Chitwood 184[/del], [del]Meeko 220 291[/del]
**Mahaloth **(0): [del]Meeko 291 298[/del]
Not Voting (2) : KellyCriterion, Oredigger77

Day Two

One And Only Wanderers (8): Jimmy Chitwood 757, Oredigger77 760, Freudian Slit 763, Mahaloth 815, GuiriEnEspaña 855, Drain Bead 865, Zeriel 874, Chronos 882
Freudian Slit (8): Rysto 655, Meeko 666, Tom Scud 783, Red Skeezix 835, special ed 861, OAOW 871, TexCat 880, MHaye 885
**Mahaloth **(1): storyteller0910 833
Jimmy Chitwood (0): [del]Oredigger 717 734[/del], [del]One And Only Wanderers 751 871[/del], [del]TexCat 795 880[/del]
Drain Bead (0): [del]Zeriel 715 874[/del]
**GuiriEnEspaña **(0): [del]Chronos 803 882[/del]
**TexCat **(0): [del]Tom Scud 706 783[/del]
Tom Scud (0): [del]Mahaloth 787 815[/del]
**Meeko **(0): [del]Freudian Slit 651 763[/del]

Day Three

**Chronos **(7): [del]special ed 924 995[/del], Red Skeezix 974, Drain Bead 984, Oredigger77 990, GuiriEnEspaña 1000, Tom Scud 1002, Rysto 1005, Jimmy Chitwood 1013
**Tom Scud **(4): Mahaloth 931, Zeriel 954, Chronos 971, ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies 986, [del]Jimmy Chitwood 1004 1013[/del]
**Oredigger77 **(2): special ed 995, MHaye 1015
Jimmy Chitwood (1): TexCat 941
**TexCat **(1): [del]Tom Scud 969 1002[/del], Meeko 982

Day Four

**Oredigger77 **(10): GuiriEnEspaña 1032, TexCat 1035, special ed 1037, Drain Bead 1039, Tom Scud 1047, MHaye 1116, Rysto 1127, Mahaloth 1135, Red Skeezix 1136, Zeriel 1164
**Rysto **(2): Oredigger77 1137, Meeko 1153
Tom Scud (1): [del]Mahaloth 1031 1133[/del], ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies 1111
**ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies **(0): [del]Rysto 1028 1051[/del]
**TexCat **(0): [del]Meeko 1029 1110[/del]

Day Five(before Tom’s claim)

Drain (2): Special Ed 1225, Meeko 1256
Tom (3): Drain 1227, Mahaloth 1232, Red 1268
Red (1): Guiri 1246
Meeko (1): Tom 1264

Day 5 (after Tom’s claim)

Tom Scud (8): Drain Bead [del]1227 1281[/del] 1287, Mahaloth 1232, Red Skeezix 1268, Meeko 1289, special ed 1292, Rysto 1293, Cookies 1294, GuiriEnEspaña 1299
**Meeko **(1): Tom Scud (1264)
Drain Bead (0): [del]special ed 1225 1292[/del], [del]Meeko 1256 1289[/del]
Red Skeezix (0): [del]GuiriEnEspaña 1246 1299[/del]

Player List:

Alive:

special ed
Red Skeezix
Meeko
Mahaloth
Cookies
Rysto
Drain Bead

Dead:
Oredigger
Freudian Slit
storyteller
MHaye
NAF1138
Jimmy Chitwood
One and Only Wanderers
Chronos
Zeriel
peekercpa
TexCat
Tom Scud
GuiriEnEspana

@Rysto

That Day Three lynch is clearly the critical one. I would bet a significant amount of money that there is exactly one scum among Red Skeezix and Drain Bead. I doubt that scum would be so blatant as to vote three in a row in opposition to the Tom lynch, but that vote count really makes it look like they went in pretty heavily to save him.

Watching Drain’s recent play, and seeing Red ‘defend’ Meeko is leading me to agree with you, but think that maybe Red is the Scum.

We’ve got 5 Unknown and 2 Confirmed.

If there are 3 Scum left, we’re at lynch or lose 4-3 with a 60% random chance of hitting a Scum in the unconfirmed pool.

If, as I think is more likely, there are 2 Scum left, we’ve still got a mislynch 5-2, but only a 40% chance of randomly hitting a Scum in the unconfirmed pool.

If, on the off chance, we’ve only got 1 Scum left, we’re at 6-1 with 2 mislynches, and only a 20% chance of hitting a Scum toDay in the unconfirmed pool.

Of course, another thing that troubles me is that when Tom ‘imploded’ the votes were on Tom, Drain, and Meeko and each of them was voting for one of the others. I really don’t know what that means, but I keep noticig it when I look at the votes

[Red_Skeezix]

@Drain_Bead

Yeah, but at the time he was getting no heat whatsoever, and his claim led to a whole lotta bad shit going down, pretty much. He may have eventually been forced to claim, but he was certainly not forced then…and I would expect him, of all people, to have been somewhat sympathetic to what you and TexCat did. (You see what I did there?)

This is an interesting defense of Meeko by Red here. I know that someone I think is Scum is voting for him, but I think he’s Scum too, and damn if I don’t think that killing Meeko will give us more info than killing damn near anyone.

I assume by “you” you meant Cookies. I did claim unprovoked in that game, but I don’t think that’s what you meant.

Also, don’t go all jumping to conclusions that I’m standing in defense of Meeko. I’m not, it’s more of a refinement of argument, a separating the wheat from the chaff, kind statement where I’m saying that that argument against Meeko is IMO bunk. I’m largely leaning towards Meeko as scum because of the vote for Rysto, which I still cannot reconcile with how Meeko determined that Rysto was the scummier between Oredigger and Rysto.

[Meeko]

@special_ed

I know Meeko, your OMGUSes are remarkably consistent Scum or Town.

I would expect nothing less from a scum.

But, I think Drain has you beat.

After all, you guys know that I play differently. No one understands me, even if they attempt.

So, I could be on to something, and no one would know.

[special_ed]

@Meeko

I would expect nothing less from a scum.

But, I think Drain has you beat.

After all, you guys know that I play differently. No one understands me, even if they attempt.

So, I could be on to something, and no one would know.

not even you, I fear.

[Meeko]

@special_ed

not even you, I fear.

You got me.

There is something I don’t understand.

Your reasons for voting me today.

[special_ed]

@Meeko

You got me.

There is something I don’t understand.

Your reasons for voting me today.

That I can help you with…

1. You voted for Rysto instead of Oredigger despite the fact that it was made no sense for a Scum Rysto to counter-claim Oredigger. This fits in with your desire to avoid lynching a Scum teammate at all costs that I’ve seen when you were Scum.

2. And this is very metagame: You’ve posted much less to the game, especially as the game goes on. I know you’ve had real-life circumstances, and so, this really isn’t a major point, but I thought I’d provide it because a) it’s another data point, and b) It will give you something to argue about while avoiding the main points of the case against you, which I fully expect you to do.

3. When Cookies claimed as Masons for herself and TexCat, you demanded a 3rd Mason claim. There is no Town reason for doing so. Claiming Mason as Scum would have been foolhardy. If TexCat weren’t also Scum with Cookies, We’d know when TexCat told us and lynched Cookies. If they were both Scum, we’d have known as soon as a real Mason claimed. Your demand of a 3rd mason claim wasn’t the move of a Twon player.

4. When you voted for Tom after he claimed Scum, you stated that you doubted it was true. It seems odd, as we know there are no 3rd party players, why on Earth would a Town player claim Scum?

5. Your weak vote for TexCat on Day 2 (for questioning the blue=Town) coupled with a weak vote for Freudian on Day 2 (An OMGUS vote because she found your assumption that Kelly was Town very telling.) The Freduian vote is a minor point, and it would have been moot had Kelly flipped Scum, but he didn’t. Your vote on Drain on Day 5 because she was able to defend herself. (and yes, I now I was voting for Drain, but I had actual reasons).

In total, 5 makes up a pattern of voting that appear like a Scum searching for reasons to vote rather than a Townie trying to make cases.

6. You’ve not made as many comments on the cases presented by others as I would expect from you. In previous games, it seemed like you often had a comment on the cases against people. In this game, you’ve made a few votes for weak reasoning and a lot of OMGUS voting. I think it might be because it’s difficult to come up with cases as Scum, but the fear of lynching drives you to focus on those voting for you. And yes, I know this isn’t a strong case, since you’re an historic OMGUS voter, but I still seem to recall more commenting on the game as it goes by. I theorize that we’re getting fewer comments from you because, perhaps, you have fewer questions since you know who is Scum and who is Town.

[special_ed]

NETA to point 4. The vote for TexCat was on Day 3.

[Meeko]

I will go ahead and say that I think we are near Ly/Lo. It gets obvious as more Days progress, but I just feel like we are there. I assure you, its a naive town feeling. But, I feel It needs to be said.

@special_ed

That I can help you with…

>>> Interesting that I had to ask. My habits or play style aside, votes first, and reasons after appear to be a tad “cherry picking”, and / or “shopped” ex post facto.

1. You voted for Rysto instead of Oredigger despite the fact that it was made no sense for a Scum Rysto to counter-claim Oredigger. This fits in with your desire to avoid lynching a Scum teammate at all costs that I’ve seen when you were Scum.

>>> I am not saying I am there yet. I think my vote between these two here illustrate my point. However, once I get “There”, the point where my play is on par with the rest of you guys, I know, I KNOW that thinking outside of the box (and done correctly) will be my strong suit, in spades.

To me, much of Mafia is stuck in a rut. To me, ruts help Scum. Granted, Mafia has a (relative) strict framework to begin with, only so many “moves” can be worked from X number of bits, from Y number of Town or Scum players. Power roles certainly add to this, but I think a few people will agree Mafia is getting long in the tooth for our group, with the given rule set, as is. Not saying Mafia is a dead man walking, just, something needs to shake it up.

Rules can shake it up.

Town doing different things, where the overall Town record suggests something needs to give, to help the Town record, could change it up.

Not so sure we can have this both ways. Either I am ““Meeko”” and my style of play comes with it, and I am allowed to be ““Meeko””, or I am not.

I just think Town needs to do different things. Town needs a better record.

2. And this is very metagame: You’ve posted much less to the game, especially as the game goes on. I know you’ve had real-life circumstances, and so, this really isn’t a major point, but I thought I’d provide it because a) it’s another data point, and b) It will give you something to argue about while avoiding the main points of the case against you, which I fully expect you to do.

>>>> Other people have expressed disgust with Mafia in this game. I have been vocal in both Pond and SSB 2. I thought I was off the game for good. Mafia has lost something to me. The recent conversations, in game with Peeker [Was that this game] notwithstanding.

I thought Mafia was something I could get on board with. You guys continue to prove me wrong. There is no better way to put this, but to say, I know there are parts of me I can not change. I know there are people out there that would play, if they could. Those people get me instantly. **That person knows who they are, and again, I will move mountains to play in a game with that person. **

As I said before, I will say again, I feel you guys need to meet me part way here. I’m not even saying halfway. But, I think you guys haven’t move, if not retreated.

I took on multiple jobs. One job quickly became a job I could not handle. It was a part time job, but the emotional baggage I attached to it made it more than full time. Before I knew it, it was mid April. It was like I woke up, and half of the month had gone.

Would be remiss if I don’t hit the “Damned if I do, damned if I dont” nail.

A game I said I wouldn’t play in, a game where nothing has changed in terms of your (anyone) opinion of me, a game where I did take on additional OOG stuff, a game with a record that makes it hard for town to keep on playing in, and a game where I adopted a posting style that reduced my post count to begin with.

Or did you even consider my outline posts, that would have been 5 times as many posts in previous games?

3. When Cookies claimed as Masons for herself and TexCat, you demanded a 3rd Mason claim. There is no Town reason for doing so. Claiming Mason as Scum would have been foolhardy. If TexCat weren’t also Scum with Cookies, We’d know when TexCat told us and lynched Cookies. If they were both Scum, we’d have known as soon as a real Mason claimed. Your demand of a 3rd mason claim wasn’t the move of a Twon player.

>>> Ed, I think it is obvious that you are I are Different. [To say the least.] I think it is even more obvious that our differences … rub on each other, to the point that it bleeds.

Take from this what you want. I think we both know you aren’t going to change your vote.

I know I am Town.

The point is not “This is not Town play”.

You could be scum, so your view of what Town play is for this game would be shot, or at the very least biased.

You could be town, but even then, your strategy or tactics on playing this game would still be yours alone. It would be pro-town, but I doubt I could know what they were. The argument made here could be that different players, different play styles is THE reason why Mafia works. If Mafia was predictable, no one would play. [[Ironically, I think we are getting there in any event.]]

Ed play is not Meeko play.

Ed may not ask for a 3rd Mason.

Meeko might.

Shouldn’t you ask if this is Meeko play first, instead of going straight to Meeko != Town?

4. When you voted for Tom after he claimed Scum, you stated that you doubted it was true. It seems odd, as we know there are no 3rd party players, why on Earth would a Town player claim Scum?

>>> So my vote for him means nothing?

I have a bad track record on the the term, but in terms of WIFOM, “Hi, I am scum” is not from the realm of teetotalism.

**You mean to tell me you don’t question what scum gives for free? ** What is your position in the game where you bypass that kneejerk reaction?

5. Your weak vote for TexCat on Day 2 (for questioning the blue=Town) coupled with a weak vote for Freudian on Day 2 (An OMGUS vote because she found your assumption that Kelly was Town very telling.) The Freduian vote is a minor point, and it would have been moot had Kelly flipped Scum, but he didn’t. Your vote on Drain on Day 5 because she was able to defend herself. (and yes, I now I was voting for Drain, but I had actual reasons).

I’m not sure I see a reason here.

I think you are saying my voting sucks.

Yeah, I’m town. My voting is going to suck, especially on Day 2.

You seem to be hitting the “Meeko Votes Drain” a tad too hard. Doesn’t do to well for my current assumption that the two of you are scum.

In total, 5 makes up a pattern of voting that appear like a Scum searching for reasons to vote rather than a Townie trying to make cases.

Or, you know, it could just be Meeko playing his best possible game at this point in the game.

Admitedly not much, but when you guys don’t read me anyway, I’m not sure what value there is in giving reasons.

For all I know, I might be bending over backwards, and come across crystal clear to your exact ways of understanding, in the very posts you guys skim.

Not so sure you can say I suck at playing, if people admit to not looking at my complete picture, if people chose to judge me at half of my moves. [And I can bet that I am generous in saying you guys only skim me half the time.]

6. You’ve not made as many comments on the cases presented by others as I would expect from you. In previous games, it seemed like you often had a comment on the cases against people. In this game, you’ve made a few votes for weak reasoning and a lot of OMGUS voting. I think it might be because it’s difficult to come up with cases as Scum, but the fear of lynching drives you to focus on those voting for you. And yes, I know this isn’t a strong case, since you’re an historic OMGUS voter, but I still seem to recall more commenting on the game as it goes by. I theorize that we’re getting fewer comments from you because, perhaps, you have fewer questions since you know who is Scum and who is Town.

**Not sure that you can throw 6 into the mix here when you already played 2. **

You have issue with my post count, that should answer your number 6.

Funny that you used to ALWAYS call it town parnaoia, yet for this game, it becomes scum fear of lynching.

Not playing as scum, playing as Meeko.

I wonder how much of this is Ed playing as Ed, and how much of it is Ed playing as scum.

Then again, I don’t think a Town Ed would bring any less heat on Meeko, as opposed to a Scum Ed.

Ed is just Ed, it would appear.

Perhaps Meeko is just Meeko. No tells in terms to alignment exist in the play.

[Meeko]

@special_ed

Watching Drain’s recent play, and seeing Red ‘defend’ Meeko is leading me to agree with you, but think that maybe Red is the Scum.

Of course, another thing that troubles me is that when Tom ‘imploded’ the votes were on Tom, Drain, and Meeko and each of them was voting for one of the others. I really don’t know what that means, but I keep noticig it when I look at the votes

Snipped.

I have no clue if Red is scum or not. I think he would get three votes on him like white on rice, if the three of us (Drain, Ed, Meeko) could put aside our heat for the time being.

Then again, it would appear that my vote on Drain might need to stay put.
And now, I am in a position that I end up in quite a few times over my track record of Mafia, in general.

The thought that Skeezix is snuggling me has passed my mind. But, it has been brought up by two players that I already suspect.

I feel in the past, I give in to these arguments way too much. It could be a false positive, I would jump on it, not knowing it to be a false positive, clinging only to the positive part.

Invariably, in doing so, I unvote scum and move on to town with my vote.

**If someone always votes wrong, at what point can make moves directly opposite that to fix his game play?

Or is he doomed to always make a wrong vote, regardless?

My play in a word sucks. Am I doomed to a certain low level of play, or can I chose to move past it? **

Related, this is why I felt not to vote Oredigger over Rysto.

My play in general needs to change, but what do I change?

[Meeko]

Seems like I am hogging the posts for the time being. Apparently you guys expect that of me.

In all seriousness, and screw what it means for your opinion of me in the immediate game:

What does it mean for Mafia, if a town player consistently has a good track record with his votes, voting scum — If his means are a bit off?

Can the ends justify the means in Mafia voting?

If a town player goes waaaaay out there, and no one follows, but he ends up voting for scum, will the rest of town allow that player to live, or would they decide that player is too loose cannon?

I mean this in general. Not saying I am that great of a player, that I could go rogue. Meeko or Peeker, for that matter, could not pull this off. We are rent a cops, not Jack Bauer.

Now, assume for argument, at some game in the future, I am pulling it off, I am being perfectly cryptic, and bringing home the bacon.

Would I still be a distraction with the parts of me that don’t check with the rest of town?

Would Town still vote to lynch a fellow town?

I might never be one of the better, or even top tier players. But I don’t think I could be as clear in my thoughts as you guys would want me to be. (Come close, sure, but not 100% understanding)

I have mentioned before, more than once, that I have the madness, but not the method.

I wonder if I can get the method.
**
How far does that set me back in this, and in all games? Is it at the point that I should give Mafia up?**

[Meeko]

Final comment for this batch, I promise :

**Interesting that my post count has become an issue. Ed and I are neck and neck. But yet, it apparently is an issue against me, for some reason. **