[QUOTE=straight man]
Actually, to respond seriously, when bombing and sanctions aren’t really on the table, dialogue becomes important, and “Eeeeevil”-crying doesn’t really help dialogue. IOW, you’re never going to convince someone who (correctly) thinks you hate them.
[/QUOTE]
Well, if we’re going to be serious about it, I don’t expect to convince anyone of anything. The best (indeed, only) solution to something intractable is to wait for enough of the old guard to die off. Meantime, I don’t see that calling them evil does any harm and it may do some good - if any internet-savvy young Saudis are reading this, they might start to wonder why some westerners are calling their legal system “evil”, and maybe when the old ones die out, the young ones won’t follow the same path.
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers]
Well, if we’re going to be serious about it, I don’t expect to convince anyone of anything. The best (indeed, only) solution to something intractable is to wait for enough of the old guard to die off. Meantime, I don’t see that calling them evil does any harm and it may do some good - if any internet-savvy young Saudis are reading this, they might start to wonder why some westerners are calling their legal system “evil”, and maybe when the old ones die out, the young ones won’t follow the same path.
[/QUOTE]
Unlikely – that type of language tends to polarize people, particularly young Saudis who identify with their country regardless of political beliefs. Such readers are far more likely to be offended and close up than deeply ponder the points made. Then again, this is a Pit thread, so it’s more a rant than debate. Dialogue doesn’t taste good served with barbecue sauce. 
[QUOTE=straight man]
Such readers are far more likely to be offended and close up than deeply ponder the points made.
[/QUOTE]
Fuck 'em. There are times when Reaganesque bluntness (“Evil empire” / “Tear down this wall”) is perfectly justified, and having a rape victim lashed is right up there.
[QUOTE=Arnold Winkelried]
Interestingly enough, Saudi Arabia is one of the states that is a party to the Convention against Torture - I guess 7,000 lashes isn’t torture. 7,100, on the other hand…
[/QUOTE]
No, Arabia run by the House of Saud has not signed the Convention against Torture.
Wikipedia: UN Convention Against Torture
Neither has it signed the 1948 UN Declaration of Human Rights which, in article 5, independently proscribes “cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment".
The only human rights document that Arabia has signed is the Cairo Declaration of Human Rights in Islam 1990, a discriminatory document which asserts the supremacy of Islamic Law in 14 of its 25 clauses.
Cairo Declaration on Human Rights
Actually, Article 24 of the Cairo Declaration pretty much covers it all:
The Cairo Declaration has been signed by every country where Muslims rule, including the so-called secular ones.
Fascinating. 
[QUOTE=BarnOwl]
How true is Weirddave’s claim? Do Americans of the radical left “…really do hate America” ?
[/QUOTE]
No. Not at all.
Cartooniverse
Saudi Arabia’s an interesting case. Sixty percentof its population is under 25 years old. Yet it’s ruled with an iron fist by a cabal of men in their seventies, hand in glove with an assortment of religious clerics who can be bought of to say anything the government wants them to say, as long as the government leans way over into extremist religious territory. I am simplifying here, it’s actually more complex than that, but…
What an opportunity for us. True, the Saudis block a large swath of the internet. Nevertheless, Saudi young people travel around the world, where we can have some influence on them. If we were to woo them with seductive western ways, we could probably get somewhere.
As always, of course, we’ll choose the path of calling them all evil. And continue to give them most-favored-nation status, because they have a lot of oil.
[QUOTE=silenus]
That OP went through about 3 revisions before I thought I had one that would fly. You should have read the first one - racist would have been the mildest thing I was called! Then I had a drink and thought about it, then re-wrote.
[/QUOTE]
So how do you believe the world ought to deal with this kind of shit?
Isolation?
Assimilation?
Extermination?
Would loads of money and a healthy taste of democracy work?
Could free elections and a government run BY the people actually work?
Or are we expecting too much?
By the way, it’s not RO at all, no sir, not at all.
[QUOTE=Cartooniverse]
No. Not at all.
Cartooniverse
[/QUOTE]
I wouldn’t say “hate America”, but more, has no perspective whatsoever. Like, the Bill O’Reillys and Ann Coulters of the left. I’m sure they’re out there.
[QUOTE=Guinastasia]
I wouldn’t say “hate America”, but more, has no perspective whatsoever. Like, the Bill O’Reillys and Ann Coulters of the left. I’m sure they’re out there.
[/QUOTE]
Please, name me a few O’Reilys, Coulters, and lets not forget Sean Hannitys.
No, I’m afraid the right has this one wrapped up.
Apparently the rule of the day is: Thou shall not talk to the media.
Forgive me. I have not read all these posts. But perhaps I can add a little.
Few of the Saudis in my school have heard of this. It is not a big news story in the Arabic press. On the other hand it is in the local English-language media and most of my teachers have heard about this. They were all of the opinion that the judge was an ass and the sentence would never be carried out. Most called for the rapists and the judge to be beheaded.
Thought you all would like to know.
[QUOTE=silenus]
Link.
I don’t care what “justification” they offer. Any group that condones this kind of thing should be wiped from the face of the earth. The world would be better off if Saudi Arabia’s judges and Islamic law advocates were fed into a wood chipper, feet first.
Yes, I know there are moderate Muslims in the world. These people aren’t helping their position.
[/QUOTE]
The vicitim gets whipped? What a stupid ass legal system. I have to agree with ya Silenus…only they need to go in the chipper head first.
[QUOTE=mangeorge]
Please, name me a few O’Reilys, Coulters, and lets not forget Sean Hannitys.
[/QUOTE]
They’re all over the place. With rare exceptions, they just don’t have the entrepreneurial balls to become famous. And of course, anytime you mention someone like Ward Churchill, the left exclaims, “Bullshit! He’s not one of us!”. […shrug…]
[QUOTE=Liberal]
They’re all over the place. With rare exceptions, they just don’t have the entrepreneurial balls to become famous. And of course, anytime you mention someone like Ward Churchill, the left exclaims, “Bullshit! He’s not one of us!”. […shrug…]
[/QUOTE]
Could you please name some left-wing examples that are as high profile as the examples given on the right?
[QUOTE=Paul in Saudi]
They were all of the opinion that the judge was an ass and the sentence would never be carried out. Most called for the rapists and the judge to be beheaded.
Thought you all would like to know.
[/QUOTE]
Are you referring to Saudi citizens, or to Americans and others in Saudi Arabia?
When they think the sentence would never be carried out, do they have some support for this opinion? Is it common for sentences like this not to be carried out?
-FrL-
[QUOTE=George Kaplin]
From the article:
Quite literally, beatings will continue until morale improves.
This travesty simply proves (if further proof be needed, which it really, genuinely isn’t) that Sharia law is a barbaric, backward, savage, gynophobic abomination; a sanctified hallmark of a stunted culture, and an abasement and perversion of human rights. Fuck anyone who even speculates about the possibility that this is in any way just.
[/QUOTE]
George, I feel you are understating the issue.
The most repellent thing about this headline, though, is that I find it entirely unsurprising.
[QUOTE=Liberal]
They’re all over the place. With rare exceptions, they just don’t have the entrepreneurial balls to become famous. And of course, anytime you mention someone like Ward Churchill, the left exclaims, “Bullshit! He’s not one of us!”. […shrug…]
[/QUOTE]
Isn’t Churchill an anarchist? I don’t know his ideas well, but I think of him as anti big government. I dunno, though. Maybe I should do some reading. Nah.
I can’t think of any right now but Der Trihs. However, they don’t seem to get as much press. And yeah, I think there are probably fewer than the right.
Probably because it’s easier just to accuse the normal lefties of “hating America”.
(I’m sorry I can’t think of any off hand. It just seems to me that there all kinds of nuts out there)
[QUOTE=Czarcasm]
Could you please name some left-wing examples that are as high profile as the examples given on the right?
[/QUOTE]
Could you please read my post in which I said, “They’re all over the place. With rare exceptions, they just don’t have the entrepreneurial balls to become famous.”? Thanks in advance.