The prophesy was either misunderstood or mistranslated…probably both. Daenerys is the one fortold…instead of a prince it will be a princess. I remember vaguely near the end of book 4 when the maester from the Black Watch (who’s name currently escapes me) says something to the effect that the red woman is wrong…everyone is wrong…that the one fortold will be a princess not a prince and that it won’t be Stannis but Daenerys Stormborn. After all, she has ALREADY raised the dragons. I don’t think the sword has anything to do with it…its the fire that is being brought back to the world.
Just my opinion from memory. Could be totally wrong.
BTW, do we know anything about the winters in Martins universe? Why are they so long and harsh sometimes but not always? Or are they always long and harsh with long pleasant summers to follow? Obviously their ‘year’ is different than our own…much longer and with a lot more extremes I would guess. Unless we are talking about recurring ice ages? Does anyone know for sure or is this yet another mystery?
Quick question about Littlefinger in book 4
It seems obvious now that Littlefinger doesn’t want the Vale…or Harrenhall(sp?). He actually thinks he can become king. What puzzles me is how he thinks he can bring it off with his own birth. Also, how does Sansa play into his plans? Anyone care to speculate? I admit it came as a shock to me that he was THAT ambitious…I just thought he wanted to become one of the great lords by setting himself up in the Vale.
I’m thinking that it is basically an ‘ice age’ type of thing rather than a really freaking long year. I think many years have passed (after all, all of the Stark children increase in age on a ‘normal’ course), but the seasons last for many years. So summer lasts for 10 years (or so), then winter goes for 20 years. And it seems that winter comes when evil tidings do. That may be part of the magic in the world. When evil comes around, summer goes away.
I just finished Book 4 and am starting over again, so I’m in the middle of Book 1. Here’s my take on the question of Littlefinger’s plans:
Littlefinger is going to have Sansa/Alayne marry that young nobleman under false pretenses as his bastard daughter, then have her reveal herself as Sansa Stark, heir to Winterfell, and back her as a claimant to the throne, or at least as a rallying point for claiming the North again. I wasn’t sure that he wanted to be King, just that he wanted to get back the Stark holdings. I could be wrong, of course…
Yup, in A Game of Thrones, someone at the Wall (Mormont, I think), asks Tyrion how many winters he’s lived through, and Tyrion says “Eight or nine, I misremember”. (Oh brain, thank you so much for remembering stuff like that instead of say, phone numbers, birthdays, and where I put my keys.)
I’m going to go out on a limb and say that Jon’s mother is…
Wylla, the Danes’ nursemaid. Why? I don’t know, I think Martin’s trying to lure us overanalyzing internet dorks into come up with wild theories, only to say “HA!” when it turns out that the right answer was there all along. Of course,I could be wrong, I like the other theory fine, and it makes a lot of sense.
At any rate, I hope Wylla shows up and gives her side of the story at some point. I am sure she will.
Spoiler for books 3 & 4:
[spoiler]I am just dying for someone to show up at the Wall and tell Jon that he’s Robb’s heir. I am very interested in seeing what he does. I double-checked book 3, and Robb has four lords witness the signing of that document. Two are dead, one is held captive - at Riverrun, I think - and the fourth is apparently free.
Not clear if that document legitimizes Jon or not, though.[/spoiler]
In closing…spoiler for book 4:
Any theories on who Jaqen H’gar is and why he wants a key to the Citadel? I think Sam’s going to be on the case, though.
Who knows what Littlefinger wants? I hate the scheming bastard.
I’ve been trying to trace Littlefinger’s behavior through the books.
[spoiler]His first obvious move is casting suspiscion on Tyrion Lannister for the attempted murder of Bran Stark. He doesn’t move against the Starks until Eddard flat-out refuses to help him take Joffery hostage. If Eddard’s plan had worked, Stannis would have been king - and Littlefinger would have had a much harder time manipulating Stannis than he would with Cersei and Joff. He helps Sansa escape - because of his love for her mother, or because of his own selfish plans? I’d say the latter - Sansa would have been fine living in Highgarden, if it was her safety than he was concerned about.
I can see how he could use Sansa to rally the North - even if she herself can’t claim the throne, her husband could. I just hope that one day Sansa figures out what a scumbag he is and outwits him at his own game. Did I mention that I hated him?[/spoiler]
I kept hoping all through Book 4 that The Hound would show up and help Sansa escape Littlefinger. I can’t believe Sandor’s dead and that’s it for him. Ditto for Davos. Both of them die “offscreen” and we only hear of it second or third hand, though the sorces seem pretty confident when they report both of these men’s deaths. Maybe we’ll be surprised and see them again in Book 5, who knows? We can only hope.
Martin tells us that not all of the POVs in AFfC are reliable. I think it’s safe to think that quite a few of the 2nd and 3rd hand accounts we hear of the death of certain characters are probably false.
[spoiler]Rubystreak: “Littlefinger is going to have Sansa/Alayne marry that young nobleman under false pretenses as his bastard daughter, then have her reveal herself as Sansa Stark, heir to Winterfell, and back her as a claimant to the throne, or at least as a rallying point for claiming the North again. I wasn’t sure that he wanted to be King, just that he wanted to get back the Stark holdings. I could be wrong, of course…”
Myself: Yes, he’s going to have her marry the heir to the Vale after SweetRobin dies off. At that time (and assuming Tyrion is dead), the truth about who she really is will come out. With the power of the Vale behind her, and her claim to the North, she should be able to rally whatever is left and restore Winterfell. The question is…what does Littlefinger get out of it? I think he is setting the pieces in motion to put in his own bid for the crown. He mentions how stupid Cersei is, and how she is actually ruining the realm faster than he anticipated (I agree). I think he planned all along for her to screw up, and I think he’s involved somehow in what is happening in Dorne. If he can get Cersei to completely alienate Highgarden AND Dorne, with the North in disarray…well, the Vale will be the only untouched power left I’m thinking. So, if he can get the new heir of the Vale on his side, keep Sansa on his side (to rally the North), he will have some major pieces in play for his own bid for the kingdom. Anyway, thats what I think is happening. Course, doesn’t take into account Daenerys who is going to really shake things up whenever she gets around to joining the party…with her dragons.
[/spoiler]
[spoiler]HazelNutCoffee: “I can see how he could use Sansa to rally the North - even if she herself can’t claim the throne, her husband could. I just hope that one day Sansa figures out what a scumbag he is and outwits him at his own game. Did I mention that I hated him?”
Myself: He’s an interesting character, though I can’t really say he’s one of my favorites either. I don’t ‘hate’ him…I just don’t like him very much. I think he’ll wind up having a bad end when things really start happening. And I think that Sansa WILL figure him out eventually…hell, he keeps giving her lessons in the game. She isn’t stupid. I also doubt she will re-marry as I doubt Tyrion is done or will go away. In fact I suspect Tyrion might become a central character in future books…perhaps as one of the heads of the dragon…
[spoiler]The internet dorks are thoroughly convinced that Sandor is alive. Specifically, he’s the gravedigger that Brienne and her entourage meet on the island with the monks. The evidence being: (1.) The gravedigger is taller than Brienne;few men are. (2.) The gravedigger has a badly wounded leg; Sandor’s leg was slashed when last we saw him. (3.) The gravedigger’s face is covered, which explains why no one recognized him. (4.) The dog named Dog was attracted to the gravedigger, and everyone called Sandor “Dog”.
Davos, on the other hand, is thoroughly dead in my opinion. First, there were ample prophecies of his death during Clash and Storm. Second, he’s a favorite of the Seven Gods, but they only have power in the South. Once he left for the North, his divine protection was gone.[/spoiler]
I hate to ask this, but cite? Myself, I think he’s still alive - his is the only significant death we hear about through 2nd- and 3rd-hand information, and Martin took the trouble to point out that a lot of it was unreliable. ARGH. He better be alive. :: grumble ::
Davos may well be dead, but if he is, I think in the next book we’ll see the circumstances of his execution, maybe even from his POV. Book 5 is supposedly covering the same period of time as Book 4, but from the more northerly POV. I think it would bother me less if we got to see how the whole thing went down. Ditto re: the Hound, a character whose redemption and eventual transformation I’d love to see. You guys might think I’m nuts, but I kinda saw a romance blossoming between him and Sansa Stark. Wouldn’t he make a kick-ass Lord of Winterfell? Might be just me and my warped mind…
Read the first chapter from Davos’ point of view in A Storm of Swords. To me it’s fairly unambiguous.
I would also point out that not every major character death in the series has occurred “on screen”. Balon Greyjoy died; we only heard about it from secondhand sources.
I would question if Balon Greyjoy is a major character. Yes, he’s a major player in Westeros politics, but he was never a POV character and we pretty much only hear about him secondhand. He wasn’t a prime mover in the novels, like the Hound or Davos.
Another character whose death is oft rumored but not told of outright is
Ser Gregor, The Mountain. I don’t think he’s dead either, though I have no real theories as to what happened to him. I feel like Qyburn did something funky to him but I don’t know what. Zombified ala Catelyn and Beric? Anyone have a viable theory?
Au contraire. I’d say she is in the race for top slot in that category.
Not that I don’t feel for the poor dim thing and I hope she wises up a bit. But she is indeed lacking in native intelligence ( and very well-written in that regard ).
[spoiler]Rubystreak: Book 5 is supposedly covering the same period of time as Book 4, but from the more northerly POV. I think it would bother me less if we got to see how the whole thing went down.
Myself: I hope this isn’t true actually…it would mean that it will be several years before the plot moves forward (1-2 for the next book, then perhaps the same until book 6).
[/spoiler]
I don’t agree. I think she has a certain innocents and naivete about her, but I don’t think she is stupid. Cersei now…SHE is a friggin idiot and IMO deserves the top spot.
I though I read somewhere that originally, the next book was supposed to take place several years later, but when Martin started writing, he wound up filling up those years anyway. It got out of hand then and he had to break it up into two books, so there won’t end up being a gap after all. The timeline will advance in Book 7. I could be wrong, though, and will look for a cite if I can find one.
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Re: Sansa Stark-- I think she is a foolish girl who is learning the hard way that innocence only gets you so far. She has definitely changed, and who knows what her time with Littlefinger will do? His cunning might rub off on her. However, as major characters go, she’s still a naif compared to her younger sister, for example.
It seems like people leaving Westeros in search of Danaerys and her Dragons will be a major part of the plot in the next books. There were three groups IIRC, Victarion, a contingent from Dorne and the Maester at the very end of the book were all on their way. Victarion is intent on gaining control of the dragons, and the other two probably have similar designs. It looks like they’ll be in for a rude awakening when they meet Danaerys and her army, what can one bloke and a few ships hope to achieve in such circumstances? I guess its not completely clear yet if Danaerys has a plan for what she’s going to do once she touches down in Westeros, maybe these three groups will shape her purpose.
Kyla,
I haven’t being keeping up with the discussion (hate the spoiler boxes!!), but is it widely thought that the guy who wants the key to the citadel is the Jaquen whatshis name, the faceless man? If so, how do we know?
This isn’t a spoiler, since it’s just my speculation, but I have a strong feeling that Tyrion and Daenerys are going to join forces. Won’t that be wild?