I seem to recall hearing that a preview chapter was released in which Tyrion talks to Magister Illyrio(sp?) about exactly this.
Well, you’re just wrong :).
Cersei is a close #2 - she’s ruled by her emotions, is mentally disturbed ( megalomania, other narcissistic issues, possibly nymphomania ) and has all the political savvy of a particularly dense rock. But she has a certain feral cunning.
Sansa is ( currently at least, though she’s getting slightly better ) dumb as a box of hammers. Now part of that is definitely simple naivete and romanticism, which can be ( and I hope will be - I do root for her redemption ) overcome. But I think she is also written as being a bit naturally slow ( not mentally deficient, but a little slow on the uptake ). At best she can learn how to be bright enough to realize her limitations and excel within them. She can get a lot smarter, but I’m not sure she’s ever going to be truly quick-witted.
- Tamerlane
Oh, yeah - also extreme paranoia. Can’t forget that gem ;).
I think so too. There have been a few hints (Tyrion used to dream of dragons for instance…and had a vivid dream of riding one once IIRC). I think Tyrion and John Snow are going to be the other two heads of the dragons…and Daenerys is going to end up marrying John Snow.
I’m probably wrong though…I usually have been especially about this particular series (I thought Rob would marry Daenerys for instance).
Wouldn’t be the first time. 
Certainly I agree here. I was SO happy towards the end of book 4! I could see it coming from about the middle of the book.
Well, I still disagree. She is only, what? 13? Something like that. She went to Kings Landing with her head stuffed full of fluff…and then was in things over her head and completely cut off from anyone who cared about her when…bad things happened (don’t feel like yet another spoiler box…I’m sure you know what I mean). After that I think part of her being seeing as dumb was a defense mechanism…she was acting dumber than she was, trying to tell people what she thought they wanted to hear.
I’m not saying she is a towering intellect here…but I think at 13 I’m willing to cut her some slack after whats happened to her.
-XT
Regarding Tyrion and Dany:
I’ve read a summary of a preview chapter that is in Tyrion’s POV and shows him on the way to meet Dany. He muses how he hopes Tywin is watching him from hell, or something of that sort.
As for Davos,
I’ve heard he has several chapters in the book to follow. Even if he really is dead, at least we’re going to find out why.
But look at Arya’s experiences, how much better she’s handled them, and she’s only, what, 11? Deciding what she wants to do, and at least attempting to get it. Robb was running a successful war at 16, and Jon is Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch at the same age.
Sansa’s been nothing but confused since she got to King’s Landing, always pushed and pulled by those around her. If she had any native intelligence, she should have at least started to get a clue. But she’s just as lost in the Vale as she was in King’s Landing. She just doesn’t have any understanding of what’s going on around her. If it’s just naiveté, it’s of a staggering sort.
I absolutely disagree about Sansa. And it saddens me that a poster as normally as insightful as Tamerlane can be so wrong about this. Ah well, I guess no one is perfect. 
Handled them better how? She spent 2 books wandering around the Riverlands accomplishing nothing. I don’t see how hiding her identity and killing people qualifies as particulary “smart”. She even thinks to herself in ACoK about how she made a mistake by wasting two of Jaqen’s kills on people who are insignficant. Sure, she recognizes that, but it would have been smarter to not make the mistake in the first place. And the one somewhat clever thing she does, getting Jaqen to help her free the prisoners in Harrenhal is ultimately pointless, because the castle would have fell anyways, since the Brave Companions were switching sides.
I’m not saying she’s stupid, 'cause she isn’t, but I don’t see how anything she does is so much better than what Sansa does, post A Game of Thrones (in which the worst of Sansa’s actions occur, due to her naivete).
Not hardly. Robb was winning battles at 16, but losing a war. Robb marrying Jeyne Westerling was at least as stupid as Sansa informing Cersei of her father’s plans. Less selfish than Sansa’s action, sure, but just as stupid, if not more so.
I absolutely disagree. After all (book 4 spoiler) she’s the only person to figure out what Lyn Corbrey’s purpose was at Littlefinger’s meeting with the Lords of the Vale, and while, in fairness, she does know him better than they do, they do know his reputation and have so much more at stake. She’s also quite effective in handling little Lord Robert. While Myra Stone puts things all wrong, Sansa perserves his pride while getting him to do what she wants. She doesn’t seem lost to me at all in the Vale. The only time she comes close is with the business about Harry the Heir, and I don’t see how she could be expected to know about that.
But I suspect we’re not going to see eye to eye on this. I’m a Sansa partisan from way back. My second favorite character of the series.
Myler Keogh, about the alchemist in book 4:
The description we’re given for him, in Pate’s prologue chapter, matches, almost word for word, the description of Jaqen H’gar after Arya sees him change his face in A Clash of Kings. It’s much too similar to be a coincidence, the thinking goes. I pretty much agree, though I dunno that I’d put my certainity at 100%. Maybe more like 95%.
I rather like her too, in an odd way. She’s well written and I suppose the fairly helpless ‘damsel in distress’ meme plays a part ( Joffrey was such a little monster, one couldn’t help but feel for her a tad ). I know some never forgave her for what happened to her father, but I do cut her slack on that. She is so frightfully dim, afterall :D.
Well, we all have our limits, I guess ;).
Arya thinks like a bright 11-year old, Sansa like a not terribly bright 13-year old. Of the two Arya comes out as both much more perceptive and entirely quicker on her feet. Robb made a political blunder and needed his mother’s guidance to help overcome his own ( understandable ) political naivete. But he obviously had a keen mind. Jon, I think we can all agree, is very sharp.
Nah, Sansa is naturally a couple steps slower than her siblings. Which, again, doesn’t mean she can’t redeem herself. She can certainly become more sensible and I think is moving in that direction ( a bit ). But I think Cersei has more native smarts - she’s just hamstrung by the fact that she is batshit crazy.
- Tamerlane
Spoilers for the first 3 books ahead…
Cersei can’t see past the end of her nose. Tyrion says something about his sister having “low cunning” and that sums it up pretty nicely. She gets rid of Selmy in order to appease Joff’s wrath, without considering how it’s going to look when the new king discards one of the most legendary knights of the Kingsguard like a pair of old stinky boots. She repeatedly asks Tywin to drag his army up to King’s Landing so she can feel safe, where there would do no good in the long run. Not to mention that stupid, stupid decision in the 4th book to arm the Faith. She is definitely more than a couple steps slower than her siblings.
Sansa was annoyingly naive in the first book, but she is developing nicely. She is perceptive enough to see the potential disaster in the making if Margery marries Joff and Loras becomes part of the Kingsguard (the potential for another Kingslayer). After Littlefinger took her in, she has been learning the subtleties of political intrigue. As for Arya, while she is very quick on her feet, she has definitely had her dimmer moments - like her waste of wishes during the time she was in Harrenhal (as Amok mentioned). And Robb is his father’s son - his honor blinds him and prevents him from anticipating the worst that could happen. Eddard Stark never dreamed Cersei would be so brazen as to stay after he’d warned her; he trusted Littlefinger, of all people. Similarly, Robb should have never taken the risk of insulting a lord that could mean his victory or defeat. To be fair, no one dreamed the depths of plotting that led to the Red Wedding, but the worse they could have imagined was at least Frey refusing to help them at all. That should have been enough for Robb to think twice about marrying Jeyne.
All I’m saying is, Sansa doesn’t seem to be naturally slower than her siblings. She was an idiot in the 1st book, but after that she wisened up. I really can’t think of any particular instances later on where she showed herself to be particularly dimmer than her siblings. (But I may be wrong. Please correct me if I am.)
Still only 400 pages into #4…but the fact of the matter is that Rob, Jon, and Arya all spent their times trying to make things better.
Sansa…stands around…cries…stands around…cries…
Oh, and I’ll not be too surprised of Cersei doesn’t make it past the end of the book.
It’s funny that I liked the Queen of Thorns so much - particulary when she’s such an evil manipualtive woman that I can’t stand in Jordan’s books.
-Joe
Again I disagree with this assessment. Sansa was cut off, left alone in an enemy city surrounded by enemies or those simply out to marry her to get Winterfell…and all at the age of 13. She was constantly watched, traumatized by Joff and in constant fear of what could or would happen to her…especially after Jamie was captured (it was more than possible that Jamies sweet sister would put her to death had Jamie been killed). I’m not sure exactly what anyone realistically thinks she COULD have done that she didn’t do in her situation.
[spoiler]Book 4 questions: Based on the afterward by Martin it seems that the next book might be coming out fairly soon. Anyone have any speculations or perhaps actual facts on when that might be?
Is Briene of Tarth really dead? What about Pod? I doubt we’ll know in the next book as it seems from the afterward that Martin is going to simply have the next book deal with the same time period but with all the major characters that weren’t in book 4. I notice he mentions Davos so maybe there is hope there.
Any speculations on the included chapter from Dances with Dragons where appearently the black dragon eats a small child?[/spoiler]
-XT
My thoughts exactly. What COULD she have done during her time in King’s Landing? Arya had more freedom of movement during her wanderings - yes, she was a prisoner, but no one knew who she was and therefore she was not as closely watched. And she wasted a perfectly good opportunity to help her family by killing someone of importance because of her personal desire for vengance. I’m not blaming her for it - it was childish, but she IS a child. I really don’t see any of Arya’s decisions that shows she is more intelligent that her sister after AGoT.
I don’t think she is. She did shout out a word at a crucial moment, and there’s been a ton of debate as to what that word was. It seems pretty likely that the word will be something that will convince unCat to spare her life.
Arya!
[spoiler]I don’t know if it’s widely thought or not, but I was in the middle of rereading A Storm of Swords when A Feast for Crows came out, and by coincidence had JUST read the description of Jaqen H’gar’s new face when I read the description of the guy who wants to break into the citadel, and they’re a perfect match, down to the scar on the cheek.
Osney Kettleblack also closely resembles that description, but he has THREE scars on one cheek. Also, he’s in King’s Landing while the Citadel is in Oldtown.[/spoiler]
Scumbags…
100 pages to go, and then I can read all the spoilers and prove you all wrong about everything. Everything!
Still, I am a bit saddened that
Sandor is dead. Polliver and the Tickler killing him? BS, even if he was drunk.
-Joe
About Stanis’s sword:
Does anyone know the deal or have any speculations about Stanis’s sword Lightbringer? It lights up like fire but gives off no heat. Also, he didn’t need to kill anyone to get it like whoever he is supposed to be the reincarnation of (who had to kill his wife for the ‘honor’ IIRC). Is it some trick by the red priestess? If so, wouldn’t she know its a trick? She seems to genuinely think Stanis is the promised prince…though we all know its not Stanis but Daenerys who is the promised one.
[spoiler]Merijeek: Sandor is dead. Polliver and the Tickler killing him? BS, even if he was drunk.
Well, he was drunk and there were two experienced swords men on him. Also I don’t think he had his armor on at the time. And his wounds seemed to get infected pretty fast…maybe the blades were tainted or poisoned.
There is some speculation that Sandor is still alive, though no hard evidence. Just some things that pop up towards the end of book 4. Personally I think he’s alive, though I think the Mountain is quite dead. I think Davos is still alive as well. The Maid of Tarth as well.
What I want to know is…where in the seven hells is Tyrion…and what is he up too? He is being hunted just about everywhere so…I think he will turn up in Daenerys camp at somepoint and pledge himself to the rising queen.[/spoiler]
-XT
I thought that the outlaws already knew that she had taken the ship.
My recollection is that
They knew she had been with Sandor, but sort of assumed she’d died in the razing of Saltpans. I could be wrong, though.
The Mountain: spoilers for book 4
Personally I still think he’s alive. Qyburn, or whatever his name is, is doing something ungodly down in the dungeons. I think Gregor Clegane is the product of those experiments, bigger and nastier and crazier than ever before. Remember those comments about him ordering a suit of armor so big that no one could possibly wear it? He also said he had a champion for Cersei, although I don’t see how he could use Gregor since he’s not a member of the Kingsguard.
Cersei
What does everyone think about the prophesy? It’s pretty specific, so I guess Tommen and Myrcella are going to die. I really hope that they don’t somehow, especially Tommen. I like how he’s finally standing up to Cersei. Also he named his kitten Ser Pounce. I also think that Jaime will be the end of Cersei, even though she thinks it’s Tyrion. Jaime is her (slightly) younger brother, too.
I was reading some message board dedicated to the series and some people brought up the possibility that
the capture of Dragonstone didn’t happen. Instead they lied to Cersei and sailed off to protect Highgarden. I kind of think it would be great if it were true, just because it would be another kick in the face to Cersei. However it just seems too easy on the Tyrells. Speaking of, I think Loras will survive his injuries and play a greater part in the series, instead of just being really pretty and a good jouster. I hope we have a POV of either him or his sister (or both) in one of the next books.
I really hope there’s some more information on what happens in this book in the next one, even though it takes place at the same time, just different locations.