Had a half-awesome Thanksgiving. While my Longhorns demonstrated their mediocrity vs. TCU, earlier in the day I had the pleasure of watching RG3 hand Tony Romo his first ever Turkey Day loss. It reminded me to check out this thread, where we discussed the logic and sanity of the trade.
As in all things football, we’re not going to know the final tally on the pick for some time. Injury and bad luck can intervene, too. I’m still mourning the tragic loss of Sean Taylor. But I think it’s fair to say that Bruce Allen, Mike Shanahan, and even Daniel Snyder look like geniuses for making the trade to the Rams. Luck and Tannehill are probably going to pan out to be average to good to great NFL QBs, but Griffin is simply transcendent. He’s out-Cam-Newtoning Cam Newton’s rookie year, and short of the game where he was concussed when he tried to stay inbounds to pick up a few extra yards, he’s played more or less error-free football. Dude had a perfect QB rating against the Eagles last week, and shredded the Cowboys secondary Thursday. Oh, and did I mention that he can scramble a little bit?
I’ve watched this young man every week this season. I have never seen a rookie look so at ease, as if he understands the rhythm of the game, as Griffin. Kyle Shanahan is doing a hell of a job coaching him, but this guy does not look like a 22 year old in his first pro season.
Couple his poise with the hideous Redskins D, especially the sievelike secondary. They lost their best defensive player in Week 1 and the offense has had to more or less shoulder the load for the team. Amazingly, they have done precisely that, and they’re in striking distance of catching up to the Giants in the Beast. The O line has been better than advertised, and there’s been an embarrassment of riches with RG3 and Albert Morris, and Forbach has proven to be the clutch kicker that the 'Skins have been missing since Chip Lohmiller. Aside from that, it’s the same, if not slightly worse team than they fielded last year. (Okay, I should also give props to Garçon for playing like a beast through injuries.)
I guess I’m just saying that the trade has already proven to be worth it. I wonder what everyone else thinks?
I agree with everything you say except for the part about Luck turning out to be average-to-good. He’ll be great too. I’m a Baylor alum, and I love Griffin, got to see him play in person on several occasions. He is truly electric. But I am worried about him getting hurt. I think he can suffer from Superman syndrome and put himself in danger. That can be worked on as he matures though, because unlike Newton he has the pocket presence and intelligence to use the run only in ideal situations.
I think it’s FAR, FAR, FAR too soon to tell given the ups and downs of life in the NFL. People said similarly glowing things about people like Vick, Newton, Flacco, Bradford, Young, Charlie Batch, etc. None of them will likely be remembered as transcendent players. While RG3 looks great so far, only time will tell. Give it at least 3 seasons before we start advocating mortgaging your future for the second-most promising rookie qb in any given draft.
Griffin looks fantastic, but you really do have to wait and see how it plays out for both teams over more than 11 games. What if (hypothetically) Griffin stays great and Washington can’t build a winning team around him because of the picks they traded away?
Granted it is early, but none of those players really had comparable numbers in their rookie years (or to be fair to Vick, in his first full season.) Griffin is a sensationally effective passer for a rookie quarterback; if he keeps up his current rates he’ll be the best rookie QB ever, no contest.
For those who think it’s too early to take stock of the trade: by that logic, we really need to wait until his career is over to assess. Sure, it’s early in his career (hopefully), but if the 'Skins were 1-10 and RG3 had cellar-dwelling numbers I think people wouldn’t hesitate to throw dirt on the guy’s career.
The high draft picks aren’t a huge deal, especially when you consider what a stud Alfred Morris is. Sixth rounder and he’s tops among rookie rushers - even Trent Richardson. A few more late rounders like that and Allen/Shanahan are going to look like Pioli and Belichick. Not to mention Forbach as a reliable kicker. Realistically, with a healthy Orakpo and less drama at safety, I’d say they’d have won two more games. They need to upgrade the secondary. But the offensive line that was so horrendous last season is actually pretty decent. Griffin isn’t getting pummeled to death and he’s quick and smart enough to get the ball out of hands in a hurry.
And brickbacon, I disagree with your assessment. The only guy I recall getting this kind of hype was Newton. Vick got tons of attention for his athleticism, but there were plenty of doubters about his longevity and football IQ from the start. I was a VY fan but even I knew he was pulling stuff out of his ass to win games his rookie season. I haven’t heard one single criticism of any aspect of RG3’s game. He has the arm, the smarts, the maneuverability - and the respect from veterans like this guy:
Osi famously called him “Bob Griffin” because he felt the rook hadn’t proven himself. You can find criticisms of him, like this one, sure, but they aren’t pretty strong - and no NFL commentator of note has critiqued him the way that others did Vick, Young, and even Newton.
Look at RG3’s QB rating and TD-to-INT ratio. He blows the other guys out of the water. That’s to do with his football intelligence. In watching every snap of the season, I can count the number of truly bad passes he’s thrown. He’s heady, and incredibly accurate. He can make every throw that a QB needs to make. He can air it out or split defenders with his precision. There’s a tendency to compare him to other Black QBs who can run (Vick, Newton, Young) but you know who he reminds me of? Steve Young. Only Young was more reckless. RG3 got the concussion vs. Atlanta and I think he got the message.
I really like the comparison to Steve Young, same height, weight, body type, intelligence, and playing styles. But RGIII is faster! We will see how it turns out of course, but I do like that comparison.
Correction: I agree with you on RG3, and while Alfred Morris is another Shanahan 6th-round gem and having a great season, Tampa Bay’s Doug Martin is, statistically, currently the top rookie RB, topping Morris in every statistical category with one less game played. They are both well ahead of Trent Richardson, however Richardson plays on a 2-8 team that runs passing plays 2/3 of the time and is usually playing from behind.
Come on. That’s a false dichotomy. He’s been excellent through 11 games, but that’s not even one season and the team has a losing record. All of the players who were picked this year are still developing (including Griffin) and the Rams will get first-round picks from Washington in 2013 and 2014, so from that standpoint the trade isn’t even complete. In time we’ll get a look at who Washington could have drafted and what that might have done for their team. There’s a lot of conjecture involved there, but you can’t judge a huge trade between two bottom-dwelling teams based on 70 percent of one season.
And they would be wrong for pretty much the same reason.
Yes, but its also easier to rack up tons of passing yards these days. That said, I will be the first to admit he will likely be better than all of them. But, it was only last year that Cam Newton was THE GREATEST ROOKIE TO EVER PLAY. There is also the fact that Andrew Luck is playing as well as RG3. Luck’s QBR is higher than RG3’s, and this point, Luck will likely be the ROY.
Furthermore, we haven’t even seen who the Rams will draft with those picks. Part of what makes these trades so risky is that the Rams have several opportunities to draft a superstar. If those 2013 and 2014 picks turn out to be great, then the trade looks far better from their point of view.
From a Rams perspective it has been pretty good. As good as he is, I seriously doubt he will ever better than Michael Brockers, Janoris Jenkins and who ever they get in 2013 and 2014 combined.
Count me in the camp that’s still favoring the Rams at this point. RGIII looks like a star, but Jeff Fisher may have turned that one star into a whole freaking galaxy with the back to back trades. Now all we have to do is… wait a couple years to see what he turns all those picks into.
Well, looking back through this thread I’m curious what folks are thinking today. For those that didn’t see he broke again after making something happen today. Ankle i appears. And Cousins came in and looked like a boss. I suspect we may have seen that last of RG3 as the starting qb of the redskins.
Well he’s back again and getting torched in the media.
Anyone care to weigh in in this now?
I guess I was wrong about seeing the last of RG3 as a skin. And Cousins shit the bed pretty soundly.
Will they move on to McCoy this year? Let him sink like a rock so they can safely move on next year? If you’re the skins what do YOU do at this point?
This has to be one of the most dramatic declines in player performance that was not related to character or team issues. Yeah the team doesn’t really seem to love him anymore but he also doesn’t seem to be able to play either.
ETA: I like going back are reading these old posts. Hippy Hollows OP is pretty funny to read now. Even a bit of Forbath praise stuck in there for good measure. Hehe.
The talk I heard this morning on ESPN 980 in DC was that the best thing to do would be to leave him in, let him suck, and either he will implode so bad that they can cut him free, or he will break himself again and they can set him free. That is just what the talking heads on ESPN radio have to say. I think that any way you look at it, he is done at the end of the season, and neithe Cousins nor McCoy are the answer.
Despite having not watched any football in two years, seeing this thread made me hope that the ‘Skins had traded RG3. The kid doesn’t deserve to be saddled with one of major sports’ most dysfunctional franchises. The one thing I’d wish for him, besides a CTE-free life after football, would be a chance to play for any other NFL team while he still has a chance to have a good career.
Too bad they can’t fire the owner. The fact that The Danny will be screwing up the 'Skins for the rest of my life certainly made it easier to make the break from football fandom.
I don’t think he’ll pan out, but I’m not a Redskin’s fan so I really don’t care. But I’m certain that if he was a 4th round draft pick, and the 'skins didn’t give up the farm to get him, that he’d be on the bench.
I do live in DC. So I do wish that he would at least SHUT THE FUCK UP until he does something. For a guy that isn’t cutting it, he runs his mouth constantly.
As someone who argued with you back when the trade was first made, but missing this particular thread, I guess I’d ask if you’re sticking to this assessment now. Because after last year’s #2 pick in the draft being the final piece of the trade, I think it’s beyond clear that the trade was a huge mistake for the Redskins.
As good as he is, I seriously doubt he will ever better than Michael Brockers, Janoris Jenkins and who ever they get in 2013 and 2014 combined.