Nah, they’re not really re-branded Wagner, they predate its demise. There were Rosgvardia troops in the first invasion forces, because they expected to take over quickly and use Rosgvardia for crowd control.
Rosgvardia is roughly the US National Guard, if the NG operated outside the authority of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and instead had a parallel command system answering directly to the president. Because it’s very important in a dictatorship to have factions to play against each other so no one has a broad enough power base to threaten the dictator.
So, a Praetorian Guard.
Which has historically been a major source of coups and assassinations.
I don’t believe the Praetorian Guard is a great analogy. They were hand-picked elite troops whose primary duty was the protection of the emperor.
Rosgvardia is made up of second-line troops, and not as well equipped as the regular army. They’re less combat troops and more civil defence, and designed more with an eye to quelling public disorder than going toe to toe with enemy assault units. They aren’t a huge threat to the Tsar, because the Tsar also commands the regular army which in theory mops the floor with Rosgvardia (although given the current state of the regular army, who the fuck knows if that’s still true). They are also not responsible for the personal safety of the Tsar, and so do not have the access the Praetorians did to carry out a coup or assassination.
Thanks for the clarification. Not at all what I imagined, FWIW.
Why would former Wagner join? The news reported that three former Wagner assault detachments joined. What ever size that is.
It’s like a battalion of the Army Rangers joined the Pennsylvania National Guard.
Yeah, mostly. But the Rosgvardia is kinda a weird beast - it was relatively recently formed by combining several different disparate paramilitary organizations. So it includes among others the SOBR and Vityaz counter-terrorism spetznaz units which probably can reasonably be referred to as “elite” in a Russian context. They’re not regular military and not equipped like an armored division, but they would probably perform well enough in something like urban warfare in the event of a minor uprising.
A.) You say that like they have a choice . If it’s not a direct threat of prison or execution, it’s just one of becoming unemployed and unemployable, which in Russia might be nearly as scary. Wagner no longer has much independence of action or choice in much of anything.
B.) I think you’re seriously over-rating their quality. It’s probably an insult to the Rangers (US Army or NHL) to be comparing them. The core mercenary units might be competent, but competent light infantry is just competent light infantry. They gained their fearsome reputation by being brutish and either engaging with seriously overmatched opponents overseas or in the case of Ukraine using prison levies to exhaust Ukrainian defenses while taking truly staggering casualties.
Moderating
Please don’t hijack the thread with a debate about the quality of these troops. You can start a new thread for this subject if you like.
Quick note that hopefully won’t draw a mod note.
The Joint Chiefs of Staff have no operational control of ANY US military forces. They are not in the chain of command, although this is a common misconception. The JCOS are a policy/advisory body only.
If the National Guard is activated and nationalized, they actually do report to the President via the Secretary of Defense.
Drones are really changing this war. And in Ukraine there is a movement to encourage non-combatants to construct drones in their homes. The advantages of home assembly with projects like Social Drone aren’t only in volume but in cost. No factory overheads, and no tax on components shipped in from abroad. It’s pushed the price of the cheapest battle ready FPV to under $300.
Perhaps better suited to a dedicated thread about international laws of warfare, but doesn’t this blur the line between civilian and military facilities, and turn homes into legitimate targets? Like, if I put a missile launcher on the roof of a school bus, I shouldn’t be surprised if the bus attracts fire. Obviously the Russians have zero regard for law and target civilians indiscriminately whether or not they’re combatants, but if Ukraine wants to make a case for war crimes in international eyes, does this undermine that?
It’s a good point and it’s a can of worms for sure. I don’t know if the fact there are no explosives involved at this stage would make a different if Russia was answering a case at the ICC. The Russians could, I suppose, use this as cause to justify their munitions hitting civilian areas however the Russians also deny that they target civilian areas so perhaps in this instance it makes no difference.
As you say perhaps the subject of a different thread (or an existing one).
I started a thread for side discussions arising in this thread.
Read up on Bomber Harris ‘dehousing’ German workers 80 years ago.
Or the US air campaign against Japan.
Well, it looks like you can still get out of Russian prison by going to fight in Ukraine, but you’re going to be there for the duration.
Wow, no pardon and a death sentence carried out by shells and explosives you might not even see coming. Sign me up, at least there’s vodka for a while.
Or you can just arrange a transfer to a Ukrainian POW prison. Probably better conditions there than in a Russian prison.
If you can get there without being shot from behind or stepping on one of your own side’s mines.
not sure how much realism is in that article … but if true - there seems to be a hot couple of weeks ahead for many