doh, it sure is hard to follow arguments in the Pit, as the message immediately before this one illustrates. Looks like I missed some of your prose and may have taken it that you were continuing other lines of thought, sorry.
Ryan, you post like a complete ignoramus. I can’t believe I tried giving you the benefit of the doubt as you spouted your idiocy in this thread and the one that originated it, while you were producing yet more invective against (guess who) Muslims. What the hell was I thinking? I apologize to everyone involved who I contradicted on this matter.
I have seen a few of your other posts in other threads in GD and I have a piece of advice for you: shut up while you still have a chance of not becoming the resident SDMB fool. You are (I think) 18 years old, you lack sensitivity and debating skills, you are not an authority, and in fact you don’t come across as very knowledgeable either.
A more specific tip: when it comes to Middle East affairs, Muslims, Jews and this sort of topic, it has become painfully obvious that you are not at all well informed. Lurk around a bit, read more threads (new and old), EDUCATE YOURSELF before your next post on such convoluted and delicate topics, please. And above all stop spewing bigoted proclamations, we really don’t need that stinking cagal.
He also seems remarkably reluctant to explain exactly what it is about my city that has gone so wrong due to an apparent lack of “integration”. Shame, really, as I was quite interested to find out. Any thoughts yet, Brutus?
Lots of thoughts, actually! The problem is that none of them involve me reentering a ‘conversation’ where my words and positions will be twisted beyond recognition.
One aspect of a well crafted argument is that it’s proofed against twisting. However, some arguments are easily defeated no matter how well they’re crafted. Usually because they are invalid or unsound.
Like I said, your “thoughts” consisted of pointing at newspaper articles and saying they “worry” you. Should you happen to contribute any genuine notion of why integration is lacking in London and why we should be worried, I’ll be happy to take your words at face value.
Of course, given that one of your initial examples of “worrisome” behaviour was children being taught their parents’ language and religion, I remain to be convinced that my remarks were so wide of the mark. Again, rather than just crying “that’s not what I said!” and running off, surely explanation can only help matters. I’m not in the habit of making up what people say, but you’re not exactly helping here. You seem to believe that we should be “doing something about” the examples you gave (these are your own words). In the case of al Sadr, he is presently under arrest on suspicion of terrorism-related offenses. This is the proper action if he is indeed a criminal. In the case of the Islamic and Urdu supplementary education, I utterly fail to see why this is a problem at all.
I am simply asking that you explain what the threat is that you see in the latter example, and why, given that both of your examples represent a tiny minority of the immigrant population in the UK, we should be concerned at all that anything unusual is going on. Immigration into this country has been proceeding for many, many years. Subsequent generations inevitably become more integrated than early generations. That’s how it works, and how it will continue to work. I would also like to point out a few more words from the article you found so worrisome:
The author is quite right; Muslim parents have both a right and an expectation to be able to educate their children in the manner of their choosing, and this right is entirely irrespective of their ethnic origin. We are talking about UK citizens with a life and religion of their own here, not just fresh-off-the-boat immigrants. The state school system in the UK is predominantly either secular or Christian. Private schools for Catholic tuition are commonplace; what, then, is so bothersome about Muslim ones?