Welcome to 2018, Rip. What year did you say it was when you went to sleep?
The experience you had with those high school boys was horrible and should not happen to anyone. It was horrible because of the “catcalls, whistles and nasty words”. And if hot chick was one of the words/phrases used in such a nasty way by these boys, it’s misogyny lies in the context/motive for its use and not inherent in the phrase itself. I don’t know where you get the notion that the term “hot chick” implies any sort of sexual misconduct, like whatsoever. To compare “hot chick” to “slut” or “whore” is to introduce personal baggage to the term that improperly lumps all three terms together. How a woman interprets “hot chick” is context-dependent. How a woman interprets “whore” or “slut” is generally consistent in most all contexts.
I know i am not a woman but my (admittedly quite limited) experience strongly contradicts this statement. I see it as an example of a minority group “reclaiming” words or phrases that the majority/out-group uses as a tool of oppression. I hear many, many more women calling other women “hot chicks” than i do men calling women “hot chicks”. Now this is not to compare any of it to the frequency with which i hear men calling women “hot chicks” to other men, but that is a bit different I guess. And I am a bit taken aback by the ferocity and confidence with which you seem willing to speak for all women. You are speaking as though “women” are some hive-mind entity that has one voice. Thats silly, im sure.
Well, it would depend on the context. If you were inappropriately commenting on a woman’s intelligence in a situation where you wouldn’t comment on a man’s, that could be misogynistic.
Maybe as a visualization exercise you could try to think of some ways in which you could be commenting inappropriately about a man, having nothing to do with sexualization or misogyny.
Say, you are tasked with presenting a co-worker an award at a company meeting and you start talking about how poorly you think he handled his recent divorce, and how you were concerned for a long while about his surreptitious heavy drinking. Sexualizing or appearance-focused? No. Misogynistic? Certainly not. Inappropriate? Hell to the yes.
Context again. If an attractive young woman were to call me that once or twice, I would be flattered and embarrassed.
But let’s try another scenario: I’m a straight man (as I am IRL). Now the “hot stud” comments are coming from gay men. Lots of gay men, regularly and aggressively - sometimes several times a day. Gay men who are bigger and stronger than me, to the point of being physically intimidating, and sometimes in groups. Gay men who occasionally make much more salacious comments (to the point of being explicit). Some even physically grope me in public to express their view of me as a “hot stud”. Still think I’d find that flattering?
To be fair, we don’t know he doesn’t have breasts.
See also: “Black people use the N-word all the time to refer to each other - why can’t I?”
I have a co-worker who uses this term. She identifies specific women as ‘hot chicks’ and is upset at the perks that they get. She thinks that they expect to get perks because of their hotness (autocomplete suggested ‘abilities’ - how nice!) and I think it’s the expectation of those perks that upsets her.
Still not nice.
I guess this best sums up where I fall on the issue. Commenting on someone being ‘hot’, ‘attractive’, or ‘a babe’ seems minor enough to me (although it seems some in this thread think even that’s going too far) but in terms of ‘chick’, it’s dated and old. I can’t think of anyone my age saying it recently, or really ever that I can remember. But I do recall watching Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee with Jay Leno and he said the term. Not meant as derogatory in any way, just a sign that’s he’s old.
If it’s on its way out, great. No big loss as it’s on its way out anyway. But to subscribe to the notion that any use of a descriptor regarding how attractive a women is, that it’s misogynistic, dehumanizing, or meant to keep women in their place, and should never been done or allowed, is pretty… ridiculous. IMO. It’s outrage for outrage’s sake and I wonder (and hope) that had the person that first used ‘chick’ in the other thread said ‘attractive women’ instead, this would never have come up to begin with.
Kimstu is doing a great job, as always, and I’ll repeat my challenge to Starving Artist that I brought in another thread, which he ignored: you have dozens of woman Dopers telling you that your approach to women’s issues is wildly off target. Is there a single – just one – woman Doper who will endorse your rhetorical and philosophical approach is reasonable? If not, if every single woman Doper is telling you that your approach is horrifying, harmful, and/or stupid, then does that not give you any pause that maybe the way you explain things on this board about women is the wrong approach?
You mean she’s not using it as a compliment?
How strange. Maybe some of the men in this thread, and the other ATMB thread, could explain to her that the term is purely flattering and she’ll stop using in reference to women who rely on their looks to get ahead.
Of course. And I’d be in agreement with anyone who argued that in the scenario you present it’s demeaning, dismissive, and inappropriate. No disagreement there at all.
But what’s being discussed or was being said in another thread, the woman being called a ‘hot chick’ was doing nothing more than sitting in a crowd, said by someone making a point about their looks. It wasn’t dismissive, demeaning, or anything of the sort. It was used to further a point the person was trying to make, ie what’s behind replacing her with Condi Rice (or vice versa)?
I don’t see how that’s a derogatory, psychological attack on women.
Not that that isn’t a point, sure it is and sure it happens, but the mere act of saying a woman’s hot, attractive, etc. and equals that is a threshold too low, to the point of being absurd.
Must have been the year where everyone didn’t make up whatever definitions they wanted for “sexual harassment”
There are some contexts where saying a particular woman is stupid is misogynistic?
Ladies and gentlemen, this is modern American conservatism: it all boils down to their war on decent manners. They resent attempts to curb their bigotry (they call it political correctness) and in this instance they think it’s their right to be total skeeves in mixed company. They want it to be all id, all the time - for them.
Next up: Trenchcoat Americans: the True Victims?
What’s particularly laughable are the claims regarding false outrage: this is all based on a low wattage mod note, which freaked out the conservatives on this message board who can’t grasp the concept of polite company. Explanation about why something is objectionable only rile them up more: remember, it’s all id all the time to them. Last stop: “I’m not for sexism, but I’m against anti-sexism!!”
Hot chick is not supposed to be used in conversation with women, unless your mansplaining to your G/F why your checking out the other chick. Hot Chick is supposed to be used in conversation with your buds, your reasoning as to why the hotness descriptor, is she tropical or radioactive or ice queen / librarian. Using that term in conversation with a civillian is just gonna be a train wreck, its fun for everyone else to watch.
Pst: think “Bimbo”. It links gender with intelligence and offers the target as an example of a generalization of a particular sex.
To be fair, ironic intent can sometimes give you a pass. Also casual apologies and backpeddling as appropriate. Easier in speech than with the written word. Context, context, context.
You people really are dumb if you’ve been reading all the comments and still don’t get it. How do you even dress yourselves? You have a boardful of women telling you this is demeaning and you’re still like, “Unhhh?” :rolleyes:
Of course, it’s not about not understanding. Women and intelligent men know it’s about power and maintaining your sense of superiority. Why else would men like you fight so viciously for your supposed “right” to comment on a woman’s appearance? Despite being told countless times by women that it’s degrading, demeaning and dehumanizing? You mansplain and try to justify it from a million different angles trying to convince us it’s nothing. Well, it’s not nothing and your shit is no longer working. You and your fellow pustules on the ass of humanity are losing.
Yes. Just like we teach children that they shouldn’t say everything that pops into their head. I think that old guy’s eyebrows might be pretty scary, too, but I certainly wouldn’t tell him that. If I were pointing him out to a friend, I might say “the guy with the big eyebrows”. If I were describing him to an audience of mixed people (much like a message board) and I wanted to talk about the man standing behind him, I would refer to Mr. Eyebrows as “the man in the blue shirt” or some other descriptor. Unless, of course, I wanted to divert the conversation I originally started into one about not making fun of older people or how as a woman, I don’t understand what it’s like to have hair growing out of your ears, nose, and brows like there’s no tomorrow.
**
Check back a few pages where SA said I couldn’t think.
I’m pretty sure it’s in the constitution that men get to tell everyone what makes their dicks hard and everyone else has to enjoy hearing about it.
Frankly, that’s the only explanation.
It’s not unique.
Sincerely,
Attractive Woman Nearing My Invisible Years
PS - Can. Not. Wait.
In case it hasn’t been made perfectly explicit: it’s about behavior, not motivations.
I could say more about all this, but Kimstu already has, and better.