First off, this caught my eye. The people who expressed a preference were
Tuesday vote: CIAS #161, thing Fish #210, tom scud #248, jpei #267 , Normal Phase #279
Thursday vote: oredigger #250, FS #269
So, any reason for going with the less popular option. :dubious:
OAOW: It has been mod-noted that he cannot be voted for Leader. As others have pointed out, this is not the same as him claiming the restriction.
peekercpa/Tom Scud - It has occupied quite a few posts. I have seen comments like that get votes before, but this looks more like harrassment of Tom Scud than anything else. And frankly, I’m not expecting this game to be fair anyway, so TC’s comments do make a certain amount of sense.
jpei: Have you played or watched any of these games before and do you know any of the players at all? Also one other question
There were other people you could have voted for, but you have limited it to these two. Would you/Will you be able to vote for someone tomorrow?
The one thing I’m worried about wrt jpei is that he’s covering for a (scum) role that prohibits voting for Leader. I’d appreciate it if he could dispel this by casting even a meaningless vote in the next election.
Alky Seltzer (1): Boozy Scud
jpeg (3): Normal Faze, OAoW, Fruedian
Mot Scud(1): peekra
The One and Only(1): Kronor
Pecear(4): Tom Scad, Jimminy Chitwick, Gruff, Nook
Chromos(1): Draid Bean
I was feeling a little paranoid, and a little annoyed. I didn’t want to check back in this morning and find that I’d picked up 5 votes from the people avoiding Monday morning work.
So, on my first read through, I was a little depressed that the incidents which jumped out at me had jumped out at everyone else already. To wit: Chronos’ vote on OAOW; **peeker **vs Tom.
However, on my second read through, I noticed something else. Chronos’ vote generated a fair bit of conversation, including this dialogue between **AllWalker **and Drain Bead:
At this point, it looks like Drain Bead agrees somewhat with **Chronos **- i.e. that **OAOW **deserves some scrutiny, at least over the timing of his claim. But then comes this post:
Two points here:
One, a U-turn on Chronos’ vote, which has gone from being an apparently reasonable scrutiny of **OAOW **to an attempt at role-fishing.
Two, the opposition to giving the putative Lie-Detector a lead. We’re all *implicitly *claiming town-alignment: why not come out and say it outright? No reason if you’re town; one good reason if you’re scum. I wouldn’t say it was proof, but I’d expect scum to tend to be reluctant to make the explicit claim. Couple that with the flip on the wisdom of Chronos’ vote, and I’m happy to:
Vote Drain Bead.
Oh, and in the light of the above: I am town-aligned.
Alky Seltzer (1): Boozy Scud
jpeg (3): Normal Faze, OAoW, Fruedian
Mot Scud(1): peekra
The One and Only(1): Kronor
Pecear(4): Tom Scad, Jimminy Chitwick, Gruff, Nook
Chromos(2): Draid Bean, amrussell
Ya, I’m with you here I was thinking that I had hit on something with the Tom/Peeker thing and I may have but I don’t think that jumping on the Peeker train at this point will help with giving the town any information.
This on the other hand is pretty good and I would love to hear and explanation but I’ll hold off a vote until we learn more.
I don’t get everyone making the statement that they are town because at this point there are enough claims that the lie detector won’t have time to check them all before we get to claims so it’s a safe statement for scum to make too. But since I’m sure that not saying it will be held against me as scummy in later Days. I am town.
Errors in vote count:
First, my name has an N as in November, not an M as in Mike (and I’m certainly not Kronor). Second and more importantly, amrussel voted forDrain Bead, not me.
Quoth Tom Scud:
Right. jpei, if you still don’t feel justified in voting for Leader toMorrow, at least put in a vote for yourself, or something.
…And I just noticed that most of the names in the vote count are mangled, not just mine. “Boozy Scud” in particular has potential to be very confusing, given that we do actually have someone named Scud (I think that vote is actually Boozahol Squid, PI, right?).
(On review, the theme of this post appears to be: how to disagree with every vote but the ones I cast myself. Sorry 'bout that.)
I’m totally procrastinating trying to figure out the Tom/peeker dispute. For now I’ll just say that first: I don’t see anything particularly scummy about either of them. Tom is being Tom, to my knowledge, and peeker, peeker. That doesn’t mean I think it’s a useful discussion. And peeker, let me just point out that saying I understand what you were getting at with your first accusation against Tom does not mean I agree with you as to the conclusion – in fact, I said as much in the very post of mine you quoted.
But in any case, on to other things.
I see better what you were getting at now, though hopefully we’ll acquire some confirmed Town along the way, so that won’t be an issue.
I’m sorry, I think this is a bad vote. For one thing, it’s far from certain that a vig of a putative Miller would be in any way bad for Town. If we were to have a compulsory vig, for example, it would be a net plus. (Granted, with all roles secret, we have no way of knowing if we have either.) Second, even if you’re right, since when are isolated bad ideas, with no other reason for suspicion, worthy of votes? Jumping on them willy-nilly could serve to repress speculation entirely, and that is bad for Town.
Given you’re voting the same way I am, this will no doubt sound weird, but again, I think this is a poor basis for a vote. I think it’s a bad idea in general to vote as a means of encouraging someone to do something. If it’s meant and pursued in earnest, it’s bullying someone you implicitly think is Town. It also makes an easy rationale for not voting based on who you actually think is most likely to be Scum.
This is a very strange day. I have a bit of an issue with this too. Are you really offering your vote up to the majority opinion? That’s a great way of avoiding responsibility, if so. (“if someone better comes along”, on the other hand, is perfectly valid, but it’s also so obvious that why mention it? The appearance is that you’re trying to excuse your vote even as you’re making it.) Is this what Daphne Black refers to below when she says everyone’s playing cautiously?
Since I can’t remember if anyone’s brought this up: the whole Miller discussion seems to have grown out of a post by JoeyP on the Giraffe boards right before this game started, where he questioned whether a Miller should always claim on Day One. I brought up the possible presence of a PFK Jester as one reason not to … then brought it up in the Disney Mafia game over there … then brought it up here … I think I got carried away.
Do you think OAOW is more likely to be Scum than the average player is? It doesn’t look like it – it actually looks like you believe him to be Town. If so, why are you voting for him? Just to put pressure on him to claim? As mentioned above, I think that’s a really cruddy reason to vote someone. Argue with him, sure, if you think that’s best.
I am Town-aligned (and see more comments on this below). However.
So you are doing this primarily to try to squeeze a full claim out of him.
I’m curious what you see as the downside to a simple “yeah I’m also Town” from everyone, even if you do have questions about Chronos’ motivations. It doesn’t take Scum lying to make a Lie Detector useful, so what’s the harm? Unless you can come up with someone more persuasive than what you’ve said so far, I have to say I find your reluctance suspicious.
Hah! I for one (yes, I’m female) seem to find you inherently suspicious. Just look how I went after you the first day in Mutiny on the SS Insipid – and you were a Mason! Of course I got myself lynched for it.
I would also like to see some follow-up on that.
This isn’t helping you with me. You are still in no serious danger of being lynched; why are you already bargaining for your life? If you’re Town, you should be finding Scum, and this isn’t it.
That said, unvote vote: Drain Bead
I find the open reluctance to claim Town more suspicious than I find you.
Quick activity-related check: I was going to call out Oredigger, but he’s just posted. BillMC says he’s swamped in Real Life, so that’s that.
So tiltawhirl, come on down! We’ve got a cool half-dozen or so controversies brewing; let us know what you think (even if it’s “gosh, none of these seem convincing”).
I stated my issues with this before. Basically, IF we have a lie detector, unless everyone participates in saying “I am town-aligned”, then the lie detector is only going to be checking people who are town-aligned, because the scum can hide in the number of townies who don’t participate. Meaning that saying “I am town-aligned” is damn near useless at this point. I think we should all do it, actually, if anyone is going to do it. So hey, lie detector we probably don’t have–I’m town-aligned too, and I will be viewing with suspicion anyone who doesn’t also say that.
And this will create noise and really not be useful at all.
Also, were you saying you were town-aligned there, or were you saying “This problem can be dealt with my stating I am town aligned”? There’s a difference.
Fishing for the lie detector, if there is one, or more likely, fishing for the few people confident enough in their towniness to come out and say that they’re town-aligned. If he’s scum and there are people who do not participate who are not his scum teammates, he may be able to flesh out PFKs or maybe another scum team that way.
Good point. I wasn’t happy with Drain Bead’s reasoning on role-fishing, but I’d missed the contradiction.
Vote Drain Bead
@Drain Bead - Just to check I’m understanding you properly, Chronos’ two role-fishing attempts are pressuring OaOW for a role-claim, and bringing up the possibility of a lie-detector role?
@BillMC - Appreciate you are busy atm, but do you think you’ll be catch up on the game before the day 1 deadline? If not, can I request that you ask for a replacement please.
@Gryff - I see you’ve posted now, but I’d still like to hear your thoughts on the leader role mechanics, and the current wagons.
This is an odd post (#373), as I was talking about role assignment by the mods, not how a scum might play a role. In any case, I think in terms of probabilities.
That’s the simplest way of dealing with the issue. It avoiding any possibility of role-fishing, gives a hypothetical lie detector a free choice of invstigation, and cuts out any noise issues.
In case there is any confusion.
I am town aligned.
The reasoning does not stack up here, all townies should be 100% confident that they are, in fact, town. What has confidence got to do with saying “I am town”?
NETA: Came in, did a quick response, then had to leave for a while. I posted it without seeing the rest of the thread that had gone on while I was gone, then left again. Hopefully that one response addressed most of the issues that other people brought up. If you still have questions that I didn’t answer, let me know.
All townies are confident that they’re town. Not all townies are going to be confident enough to say “I am town aligned,” whether through laziness or an inherent distrust of the idea of doing it or whatever. This is why I think that if we’re going to be doing this, we should ALL be doing it. I probably should have been more explicit in my original post about this idea that this would be the only way around the problems I was suggesting.
I don’t think that you’ve answered the question about your change on Chronos’ first ‘fishing’ attempt. You start off thinking that OAOW did soft claim without being forced by the mod and seem to believe that more questions need to be directed to him about his claim. Then you switch to Chronos fishing for OAOW’s role.
So what I get from your current posts is that fishing is asking questions that you feel need to be asked and forcing answers with a vote. That sounds like pretty good play to me. Your second thought of a fishing attempt was;
Basically him claiming to be town so that people who don’t claim could possibly be third party or scum. I think you’re stretching pretty hard to give this a scum motive. There are two types of people who are going to get caught by his game scum and townies who don’t play along. If he’s scum he is shrinking their group for hunting third parties and shrinking the town group for hunting for scum. While possibly a good move for the end game it helps the town more then it does the scum. I don’t think ‘fishing’ for scum is a bad thing even if a couple of townies get caught up in the ploy.
