“It” being that supposedly flippant comment, of course. A case is a case, but that comment is really a silly thing for any player, Town or Scum, to make…because if you’re wrong about me being scum (and you are), you’re going to get a lot of heat about it. Which is why it seemed like a mispost to me.
What’s funny is that I keyed in on its wrongness without having any idea that you were about to make a case against me.
Well, a couple questions for you, then:
1 - Why, when after Thing Fish fully claimed, you figured he pretty much had to be town, did you not move your vote to Freudian?
2 - Why, when making your case against Chronos, did you not acknowledge that you also had failed to strategically vote, and instead used his lack of strategic voting against him?
(Admittedly, I AM going to feel like a complete moron if DB flips town, but oh well).
/Snipped
@ Tom, didn’t Jimmy come to your rescue on Day 1 too? 352
I was nowhere near being lynched at that point; it’s also only a subsidiary part of my case against Drain.
NETA Sorry, linked to incorrect post, here’s the correct one #352
Because I believe at the time that I went to bed that Freudian and Daphne were tied at 3 votes, and I believed Freudian to be VT and Daphne to be Scum. I generally go to bed around 8:00-8:30, and IIRC the last vote count I saw had them tied. I was hoping at the time that others would switch their vote to Daphne rather than Freudian. I also am not a huge fan of LtL in the early game–at the time I voted for Bill on the first Day, it was for his bad vote. Once it essentially became LtL I was less enamored of that vote, but didn’t want to switch and potentially do more damage. So in a choice between a tied Daphne and Freudian, I had no desire to switch my vote to someone I believed to be Town from someone I believed to be Scum.
Again, seeing as though they were tied, I was strategically voting at the time I went to bed.
No idea why I bolded LtL above. I blame it on the H1N1 eating my brain.
Not only are you going to feel like a complete moron then, but you’re also going to potentially die for it…pretty awful mistake for a Townie to make. You still haven’t answered my question…why do you care about saving Chronos? Giddy or no, any Townie should not really care about saving another person unless they somehow know the other person is also Town. So congrats, if you’re a Townie, you just put a big flashing neon COP or MASON sign on your head and on Chronos, whether or not you actually are (although if you’re both town and neither of you ARE cops or masons, it might actually be a semi-good thing, because they might waste NKs on you). But if you are, we’re fucked.
You recall incorrectly. The vote was 2 - 3 at the time of the last vote count, and 2 - 4 by the time of your last post.
Right after I posted my case against Oredigger, Jimmy popped in and gave it a shove. But did so in a fairly unobtrusive way that might have missed scrutiny later.
Eh. Chronos was posting the standard-issue “I know I’m town, and I’ve resigned myself to being mislynched”, and I figured he could use a little pick-me-up. Plus, giddy. Anyway, apologies if you’re actually somehow not scum.
Well, whee.
unvote
vote: Drain Bead
Same reasons as always, and Tom’s vote makes it seem slightly less like beating my head against a wall. I will not be unhappy if Chronos is lynched, though, given my respective suspicions about them both.
This makes no sense. If Tom were a Cop with a result on Chronos, or a Mason with Chronos, he would never have started that bandwagon in the first place. The only thing I find at all curious is that he hasn’t “saved” Chronos in any sense by doing this, even if the bandwagon on you does prevail – he has not said anything to discredit his own reasoning as regards Chronos’ likely guilt, only changed in favor of someone even more suspicious.
I suppose it’s more of a stay of execution.
OK, um, I guess I’m glad that you’re moving your vote off of me? But I’m really going to need to think this through with a clear head, and I’m too sleep-deprived right now.
OK, I’ve gone thru the bandwagon against me up to the point when the Boozahol name dance began, which more or less ended the steam of it.
The only thing that I thought was interesting was Normal Phase’s behaviour. She expressed a lot of consternation about my claim, in particular wanting me to be explicit and finding it kind of shocking that I would question what pro-town need there was to know the details, without considering it from my side (see 1258 and especially 1268). When I asked her to look at it from my perspective if I was town, she did not respond. She acted like it was suspicious for me not to divine her motives for asking. Her response when I said it was role-fishing was the odd ‘I’ve not done that for the other partial claims, why would I do that for you?’ which struck me as quite odd at the time.
But she never voted for me (even after I voted for her). She did her best to paint my role and my actions with the claim in a scummy light, but she never got on board with the wagon. There’s quite a bit of scumminess here, even more than I thought yesterday, looking at the wagon’s development.
I’m not sure what to think about the Chronos/Tom Scud/Drain Bead thing right now. I understand that Drain Bead is in the best position to accept my claim, but her support of it does not do anything to confirm her in my mind. A scum could have claimed I didn’t block her, I suppose, and tried to get me lynched for a second day, but I can see reasons why a vanilla scum would be honest about my block, at least. On the whole, though, I think she’s been more townie than scummy since day one. I remain on the fence with this for now. I agree with Normal Phase, I don’t see how Tom has ‘saved’ Chronos in doing this.
But right now I’m going to vote for the person who feels scummiest to me right now, so, once again
vote Normal Phase
Then why so giddy? If you truly believe Chronos is scum, why be so happy about saving him? I hadn’t realized you were the first to vote for Chronos when I took umbrage with your comment about saving him, and now that I know that, your joy makes even less sense.
/snipped
@ Normal, sorry to disappoint you, at the time I was joking about doing a WoW on **Tom **in response to his threat to do one on me. In any case, I did try to do one afterwards but failed miserably (links all opened the same post, only managed to do up to page 20, found nothing new or special against Tom). Upon preview, it looks like there’ll be stuff in the next 20 pages however.
This is my first ever WoW and I doubt it’s of any value to anyone except myself - once I get a chance to digest it all, but just to prove that I attempted it…
3/5/10/12/16/58 Pre-game fluff
73 Confirms receipt of role PM. Provisionally nominates Allwalker for leader
75 Gives reasons for Allwalker - calm, rational, not a pot-stirrer
125 Suggests miller should claim early to avoid wasting Cop action
126 Suggests good times for leader to vote, FOS on any leader who casts vote after 5PM EST Thurs and before 2PM EST Sun.
127 Suggests splitting leader vote as a backup leader may be required
131 Rule of thumb for Mafia: “scum should be (# of players)/4 or sqrt(# of players), which would work out to 6 and 5, respectively. Which gives us 6 or 7 mislynches, all else being equal, which of course it won’t be. But just as a baseline assumption until we get better information.”
132 Dismisses possibility of Jester in such a large game
141 Agrees that leaders could place provisional votes. Doesn’t want a shit-stirrer for leader (Peeker, Boozy) as it might “crimp their style”
Day 1 breaks
149 Banter with Peeker
151 Doesn’t want to be leader but, if elected, will vote on Thursday afternoon or whenever people want
156 Elects Allwalker
174 To Drain, doesn’t think leader is a more attractive scum target than a town player. Scum will kill power roles, people who catch onto them or are unlikely to be lynched
177 To Drain, suggests changing leader every day unless we can put a confirmed mason in the role - to avoid low voting record and avoiding damage caused by a scum leader
198 Re: OaOW, possibly ineligible due to lack of confirmation
219 Asks Mods about OaOW being ineligible since beginning of Day or since Day began. Doubts existence of night actions on night 0. Suggests OaOW has a role which prohibits being leader - which would be nasty for Town or a 3rd party (or somewhat nasty for scum, he adds puzzled) as he basically has a big bullseye on him
245 Tells OaOW not to bother with a full claim yet - probably not useful info for Town.
247 To Daphne, suggests that OaOW’s role is probably worse for scum or 3rd party than town.
248 Suggests voting on Tuesday for a Wednesday dusk is better than a Thursday vote.
262 To Mods, correction on vote count.
263 First hall monitor post, reports jpei & BillMC as inactive and not having voted on leader. Congratulates Allwalker in advance.
Allwalker is leader.
277 Clarifies “all else being equal”. “We don’t know that there are 3rd parties” and complains that mods haven’t answered queries about that
285 Responds to BillMC’s apology for not “getting in the way of not electing you to the leadership” and apologizes for singling him out.
314 Responds to Peeker’s vote on him for possible extra information on the number of 3rd parties/scum. “So just to be clear, you first suspected me because my post implied that there were no third parties. Now you suspect me because THE SAME POST implies that I’m certain there ARE third parties.”
342 Further response to Peeker about the existence or not of 3rd parties and whether or not he has insider knowledge. Agrees Jpei’s play is more likely noobish than scummy. Votes Peeker for poor reasons for voting Tom.
343 Declares he is town-aligned.
352 (Not a Tom post but of interest) Jimmy defends Tom towards Peeker re: “smart assy post”
378 Rules out OaOW as 3rd party.
379 OaOW could be scum or town.
382 Worried that Jpei may be covering for a scum role that prohibits voting for leader. Requests Jpei to vote in the next election albeit a meaningless one.
386 To TexCat about possible scum motive for Tom/Peeker skirmish. Tom explains that he’s feeling a little paranoid and wanted to be sure to put Peeker’s argument to bed before seeing a bandwagon piling up
394 Hall monitor again, Tiltawhirl is inactive, Bill is swamped in RL
439 After a pause in posts, Tom attempts to recreate DB’s list of alignment declarations and also makes some mistakes - DB’s omissions were not “inherently scummy” to him
460 Posts an updated list on alignment, missing BillMC and Nanook
489 Unvotes Peeker, claim seems premature. Thinks case against Chronos (for fishing) was weak and is unconvinced of argument against Drain, made case against Chronos worse
490 To Drain, request to lynch her is a crazy idea - there’s a chance Peeker can self-protect.
491 To Peeker re Tom’s “OaOW could be either scum or town”, says Peeker’s “never assume scum wouldn’t do that” is equally bland and non controversial.
500 Wishes Peeker good luck in analyzing people who voted against him due to low-volume posters
501 Analyzes Peeker bandwagon - Tom, Jimmy who gives Tom pro-town vibes, Nanook with only 4 posts, Gryff with only 4 votes “Grade == INC”, Oredigger who’s been sparring with BD, looks like a townie but could be scum “trying to set up tomorrow’s bandwagon”. Tom votes Oredigger as he looks suspicious enough for day 1.
502 Gives further explanation for vote: “NETA: the thing that really pings me is the pivot from picking holes in DB’s arguments (and suggesting that DB’s incomplete list was scummy) to deciding peeker was scum after all & that the move to DB was scummy in origin.”
521 To Gryff, explains “INC”.
524 To Gryff, further explains “INC” as incomplete
534 To Alka on why Tom is looking at Peeker’s bandwagon, asked if he believes the claim. Says only time to analyze 1 bandwagon, doesn’t 100% believe the claim but case against him isn’t very strong. Mentions that he’s never seen a day 1 scum vs. scum fight
542 Doesn’t find Allwalker scummy, vote on Peeker seemed valid
543 Asks what Peeker meant by emphasis on “A doctor”
546 Fluff (welcomes me to the game, warns me of Peeker’s lack of sense of humor)
547 Mentions Mods’ experience of running games with scum doctor roles
555 Revists Allwalker’s posts and finds his “I see no harm in saying I am Town aligned…”. Parses it as being true whether said by scum or town, votes Allwalker
559 Corrects Drain who stated that Allwalker later clarified, it was actually Alka who clarified alignment
605 Unvotes allwalker after Allwaker restates alignment. Votes Oredigger again
608 Comments on Mod’s confusion of Alka and Allwalker
616 Comments on Alka’s vote on jpei, agrees that jpei deserves some heat for being so quiet. Also calls out to Amrussell, USC, OaOW and TexCat
618 Also wants to hear more from BillMC
619 And Freudian
625 Analyzes TexCat, first to mention a possible scumfight between Tom & Peeker, takes it as a personal smudge as he is Town. Votes TexCat.
626 NETA clarifies day 1 scumfights being town vs. town except in Gasterds
640 Hall monitor, lists non voters
705 Votes Jpei for “single most anti-town thing anyone’s done all day”
726 Snarky reply to Jpei about taking 48 hours before voting
748 Agrees with Jimmy that Jpei’s power is unlikely a scum power, unvotes.
819 Had planned to revote Jpei after leader vote but Boozy’s claim has changed his mind. He’s still skeptical of Peeker’s claim. Oredigger is looking more townie. TexCat has been more active since Jpei claim. Boozy is Boozy. Chronos is still suspect. So he decides to go for LtL and agrees with amrussell’s case on CatinaSuit. Votes Catinasuit for weak vote on DB and low post count
820 Notes that he’s ALWAYS thought Chronos was scum in previous games
840 Speculates on Jpei’s claim and the berynium. Doubts it’s a miller tag, suggests that there’s a 3rd party who wants to acquire Berynium through stealing or killing.
841 Asks about leader vote times for day - prefers a Monday or Tuesday finish
857 Expects more than 1 night kill to ensure game doesn’t last too long. Comments on Jpei’s claim and color
858 To Alka, mentions that Peeker could be a scum doctor and surviving a vig doesn’t mean he’s confirmed town
Night 1 falls
910 Comments on USCDiver’s suggestion to ask for a sub due to inactivity, asks folks’ opinions
916 Further comments on whether or not USC should be subbed
918 To USC, asks if he’ll be able to play more
936 To Jimmy, while Jimmy put second vote on BillMC, all other voters agreed with his argument against Bill
937 Asks Mods about last day for subs
946 Suggests a Monday morning discussion on players who might need to be subbed out to avoid LtL
Day 2 breaks
953 Admits that Jimmy “had me totally taken in”, promises more later
954 Speculates on 3rd death, SK, Vig & scum or something else?
956 States that Peeker looks more Towny since Jimmy flipped
958 Elects Peeker
961 Counts Boozy as confirmed town too
962 Starts to analyze Jimmy trail re Peeker
967 Quotes Jimmy’s first poke at the multiple doctor claim, mentions Jimmy adding fuel to the Oredigger case, and Jimmy’s leading the charge against Bill
968 Specifies that Jimmy’s was the second vote against Bill
973 Quotes other major post by Jimmy which derailed DB bandwagon. Urges not to elect DB.
974 Notices Jimmy’s smudge of Chronos in “save-Drain Bead” post
977 Suggests that scum may have killed TexCat as power roles may attempt to stay under the radar
979 Suggests possible roles for Berynium thief - wins-with-whoever or bomber
980 Agrees with Boozy that TexCat was more likely not a scum kill, Jpei was a better target
981 Quotes Jimmy who suggested where to look for scum (in BillMC wagon) and deduces that we probably won’t find any there
983 Doesn’t find anything useful in analyzing TexCat or Jpei’s votes
984 To Chronos, says that Boozy is confirmed as he guessed an unknown element of Jpei’s role and tried to save him.
986 NETA
987 WoW on Texcat, not much to go on
989 NETA posts correct link
990 To Chronos, agrees that Boozy’s knowledge of shiny stuff doesn’t confirm him as town but was a pro-town action
992 To me, suggests it’s not productive to speculate on who killed whom
993 NETA “there’s the WIFOM involved in the role-claims”
999 Re post 956, Peeker & Jimmy could have been a scumfight
From the first 20 pages I haven’t noticed anything that hasn’t already been hashed out in public and defended or explained. Apart from a couple of random LtL votes and the berynium thief idea, I haven’t had any “Aha” moments from this exercise. I joined the game late in Day 1 so may have mis-stated or misunderstood some of the posts based on my knowledge of more recent events. Maybe his 250 posts is a ploy to stop people from attempting a Wow on him :D. I’m far too new a player myself to judge or make comments on his style or play but his voting record (16 votes on 11 different players so far?) must be a real PITA for Chronos and his program!
FWIW, kudos to those of you who actually manage to do WoWs, it’s an awful lot of work and really hard to summarize each post in an objective light while keeping the summaries shorter than the original post (and keeping the links intact)! I truly appreciate your effort.
Mainly from (1) having actually finished writing a damn 8,000 word wall of words and (2) actually having found something I didn’t expect to find there.
Gryff (1)
Chronos(4): DrainBead, Oredigger, USCDiver, Tiltawhirl
Tom Scud (1) : Chronos
Drain Bead(2) : Tom Scud, Normalphase,
NormalPhase(1): Daphne