It isn’t the same as changing scoring settings, sure, but people are still negatively affected. For instance, say the deadline was last Friday and you extended it and were able to trade a couple of players for our matchup this weekend. I’d be furious, because if you won, **I’d **have been negatively affected.
Yeah, it’s a tough blow, especially so close to the trade deadline. But of anyone in the league, you are less fucked than we would have been in your situation. You drafted like seven running backs right? Don’t you have six or seven on your roster?
Fair enough. I thought I’d ask if anyone cared, people do, so I won’t.
Eh, I’ve gone from a clear #1 starter to having an option between a lot of RB2s and RB3s, and a lot of them with unsure futures. There’s no one I feel comfortable plugging in on a week to week basis. So I have the tools to maybe not take the hit that hard, but I have to pick the right 2 out of 6 or 7 every week, and that’s hard. And some of my RBs may only be temporarily valuable, like Betts, Moats, McCoy (although Westbrook may be out for the season), etc.
It’s been a pretty good year for high profile injuries, hasn’t it? Leon Washington, Owen Daniels, and Ronnie Brown are the only ones I can think of.
It figures that of the only player I have in 3 leagues (or at least the only one worth anything) that he’d be one of the three major players to go down. Oh well, I knew I was taking that risk when I traded for him.
Exploding Pancakes gives up
Jeremy Maclin
Knowshon Moreno
The Gridbirds gives up
Vernon Davis
Jeff Reed
I know, I’m giving up a solid RB option here and a good receiver. But I won’t be ever starting Maclin barring injury and I’ll work around him at RB. Moreno would probably only start for me maybe half the time or less, and I’d only ever start Maclin due to injury, whereas Davis is an every week clear upgrade with big potential and a very favorable playoff schedule. And Gridbirds has Dallas Clark, so it’s not like he’s really losing anything.
I assume no one is going to have any problems with this, so if you don’t mind, I’d like to push this trade through relatively quickly - I have another roster move I want to make and this will let me free up the space.
Ok, the trade deadline is “Friday November 20” and I would assume that means you have all day to trade. I have a trade in negotiations currently (and possibly a second one) and I’ll try to complete these today, but I’m working under the assumption that we have all of tomorrow to work with.
In the event that the trading function is disabled tonight at midnight (that is… the deadline being Friday means it ends at the tick of midnight Friday, rather than having all day Friday to work with), and I work out a deal tomorrow, is it acceptable that I do the trade manually through the commissioner tools? I don’t think this will be an issue, but I’m raising it now just in case.
I have a lot of problems with it. Mostly because it’s me who has to face the team that is getting the benefit of all those commissioner tools this week.
Ok, trade to announce: Exploding Pancakes gives up LeSean McCoy and Ryan Moats, Frosted Lightning gives up Ricky Williams and Hackeem Nicks.
It’s really a 2 for 1 deal with Nicks as a throw in, I just told him to offer me whoever he was going to cut anyway to make it even.
This is a time sensitive deal… I want to use Williams tonight and we agreed to expedite this trade so I hope no one minds if I approve it before gametime. I’ll give some time if anyone has an objection, but I need to make it go through before the game.
So next year when we get started are we going to set up the rivalry week thing? I like this concept and I’ve spent the last few minutes wondering who’d I get to label as my rival and ditto for the rest of the league. I want more trash talk opportunities!
Sure, sounds good. It’d be especially good if I can work it in without too much regard for how it affects the other scheduling… I don’t want to do a full manual schedule because it’s a pain in the ass, and I could just swap around the schedule for that week. I guess next year in the preseason we can discuss who our rivals would be.
I missed this the first time around. When people make requests for me to use commissioner tools for them, I honor them. I’ve made trades go through quickly because the trade was made late before game day, I’ve had people e-mail me to tell me they weren’t on a device that they couldn’t use to set their roster but that they intended to start a certain person and if I could switch it for them.
Pushing a late trade through before game time is not an unusual request at all. Asking for a trade to go through that was negotiated on the last day of trading is unusual - but I don’t see anything unethical about it. There’s ambiguity as to when exactly the trade deadline is - and one of the guys I’m trading with may not be on till after midnight, so I wanted to see if I could finish that trade deal up in the event that the trade deadline was the midnight at the start of november 20th, rather than the end of the day.
It’s deeply unethical. It’s cheating. There was no review, not even two hours. Only because you realized your guy played on Thursday and you didn’t make your deal early enough in the week. I don’t remember anyone else asking to have deals pushed through, just you assuming other people wanted to. It’s not all right, and I’m shocked you don’t see any problem with it.
I sent out the initial trade talks on IIRC tuesday (or whenever it was that I saw that Ronnie Brown was on IR) for this deal and it took a while for him to get back to me. When we finally came to an agreement, there was only a few hours before gametime. I didn’t do it “only because I realized my guy played on Thursday night”, but because it was the time it took for the other side to respond to me and come to a deal. I sent out I tried to give what review time I could.
The review period is really a formality in most cases anyway. I’ve only ever seen one trade in an SDMB league veto’d, and that was a very stacked one in the dynasty league this year. Even trades that people thought were stacked one way or another did not find significant objection. Would you, or anyone, have lodged a veto vote on this trade had it had longer to sit?
Why is it that you didn’t object to me doing the same thing for you?
If the two day review period is sacred, then why didn’t you object here?
I also stated the policy in another trade you were involved in here
Here’s a time that I pushed a trade through before gameday in the same way, but it actually worked against me since the player I was receiving that week was injured and the player I was giving away had a good matchup. I could’ve let it slide for the full 2 day period and let it work to my favor, but there was a reasonable expectation that we were trading for the week the trade occured in, so I pushed it through.
Another time in this league I pushed a trade through before 2 days due to needing the rosters to reflect the change for a game.
And another time I offered the service to people who made a trade a few hours before gametime, with an explanation.
So if someone else had made a deal today that involved a Miami or Carolina player and asked me to push it through for them, you don’t think I’d do it? That I save my commissioner powers only for my benefit?
Why is it that you didn’t object to it the multiple times I did it in leagues you were involved in, including two that involved you and were to your benefit? (and so you can’t claim you had no idea I did it).
Are you objecting because you feel that if I had given the trade more time for review, that the league would’ve veto’d it, and hence I snuck it in at the last minute because I knew it wouldn’t pass muster?
Let’s examine that. Does the rest of the league think that I acted inappropriately here, cheating for myself, or if given the chance, would’ve vetoed that trade? If there’s a consensus that I did cheat, then we can decide on the punishment together.
I try very hard to run a good and fair league. I take accusations of cheating very seriously. When people ask me to use commissioner tools to help them, I’m fine with it. I even offer it when I can see that their intent may conflict with something logistical with the league. When issues of potential controversy arise, I work hard to reach a consensus and don’t try to rule arbitrarily or with an iron fist.
So I ask the league: did I cheat here? If so, how should I be punished? Was there a reasonable chance that the trade would’ve been vetoed had I not pushed it through due to time constraints?
Or is Jules just angry because even though he knows this is something that’s happened before, even for him twice, and never objected, this time it worked against his favor and now he’s outraged?
I should add that there has never been a full 2 day trade review period in any of my leagues this year. It’s clear pretty quickly that most deals are uncontroversial, and I approve them pretty quickly. If there’s controversy, I give them extra time - as in the case of a certain trade I’d made in the big league. If there’s a player involved playing a game soon after the trade is made, if both players want it expedited, I’ll implement that.
Almost every trade made in these leagues is uncontroversial - people rarely object in any way, and we’re all seriously minded and trying to improve our teams. There aren’t stupid dumpoff trades or anything like that. So the review period is barely necesary, because there are so rarely objections. I didn’t think there would be anything controversial about this trade either, so given my options of giving it a long review (but not making the trade take effect before a game that involved a player, as both sides of the trade had intended) or expediting it. Given that I had no reason to suspect there would be objection, I went with the latter. I think the accusations of cheating are way out of line, and I would’ve done this for anyone who’d asked - and I would’ve asked anyone if that’s how they wanted it if it seemed like the intent of pushing through a trade before gametime was to have the trade take effect before gametime.
How long it takes is how long it takes. If you send out an offer on Tuesday and it gets accepted on Monday of next week, are you going to retroactively change it for Sunday because you sent it out before those games? Can I say, “This guy I want is clearing waivers on Monday, can I fast track my claim so I get him for Sunday’s games?” What happens if I negotiate a trade with someone at 7am on Sunday and you aren’t online to pass it through?
I could make an argument it’s a pretty unfair trade. I wouldn’t have protested it going through because I don’t think it’s collusion (aside from the back room “agreement” to push it through). Does it matter if the league would veto a trade when nobody vetoes trades in the league?
A.) It wasn’t my idea. It was yours. Nobody actually asked for it. B.) I went along with it because my opponent had already said OK. C.) The only two people affected by it were me, (trade participant A), and my opponent for that game (trade participant B). There wasn’t a third party who got screwed by it because they played one of the trade participants, and both parties to the trade said OK (rather indifferently I might add). Had we been playing others, their concerns would have been just as valid And D.) Even if someone HAD voiced a problem, there was more than 2 hours for someone to speak up.
Where is the cite where I said okay to that by the way? Or my trade partner saying yes? I just see you assuming (again) that we want it through.
Nobody vetoes trades, so no. It would probably pass. The difference is there is an expectation people can see it, and when someone does say “I have a problem with this” (albeit selfishly in my part, sure) it actually gets noticed before the game is over.
Absolutely I’m outraged that this happened to me specifically. And I wouldn’t have said anything if I wasn’t involved (because… I wasn’t involved. not my fight until someone asks for my opinion). But I was involved, so I did speak up. And it was “missed the first time around” when I said something.
But absolutely this is sour grapes on my part, though to be fair, I said I had a problem with this before the game even started. I had gone through enough of your trades getting pushed through and my opponent getting a huge boon to know what would happen if you pushed this trade through. I said something, nothing happened.
I didn’t notice that no trades had ever had a 2 day review though, so maybe I am just mad because I’ve already lost. I don’t remember when we decided to change that, but I guess I’m mistaken in thinking we had a 2 day review in trades.
I just realized my complaint about the Williams trade never actually posted. The post SenorBeef had quoted was in response to his earlier trade and the hint of more 11th hour trades to come. There’s no proof I had any problem before the game started, so I take back what I said. I feel like an ass. Sorry Beef, if I offended you. Congrats on your trade.
No, of course not. Retroactively applying scores after you know what they are is not the same thing at all to what happened.
No, that would be an area where you’re competing with other players and you could jump the gun and deal the player to the wrong person, and I don’t see it as being advantageous to the league in general. Expediting trades has no downside if the trade is uncontroversial. Our waiver system would also prevent this specific case since waivers that make it till gameday get grouped in with the rest.
If you guys posted your intentions and both agreed that you wanted the trade to go through for gametime, I’d retroactively make it happen.
There was no sneaky conspiracy agreement. It was more like “cool if I make this go through this week before Williams plays?” “Sure”
It matters if it would be veto’d because that’s the only thing that could possibly have happened here that was unethical or bad.
Okay, but I don’t see it as screwing a third party, see point B.
No one got screwed here. You didn’t make decisions based on me having Williams, right? You just fielded whatever your best team is. Whether or not the Williams trade goes through on Tuesday night or Thursday night does not matter from your perspective, either way we made a trade that was intended to take effect this week. The only time it could matter is if I pushed it through to avoid a veto because I thought it was unfair and wouldn’t pass. You admit that probably wasn’t going to be the case here, so I don’t see how you got screwed.
If I sent the message on Tuesday, he checked it immediately and sent back the offer, and we had 2 full days of review - nothing changes. People (presumably) don’t object to the trade, and it goes through. The difference here isn’t of any real substance - it just so happened that recipient of my trade proposal didn’t check his PMs tuesday, he did so on wednesday night when I was sleeping and we didn’t get into negotiations until Thursday.IIRC, and that my player who I wanted to replace went on IR 2 days before his replacement was on Thursday night football.
You’re right, you didn’t reply to that post. I don’t remember if I pushed it through or not.
Well, if the league honestly thinks it’s a trade that shouldn’t have gone through and should be vetoed (and don’t use the breakout performance as evidence here0, then I guess an appropriate punishment might be to retroactively take away the trade and remove my points. I’m willing to do that if there’s a consensus that I did something unethical here.
Well… that seems self serving. When you’re only outraged at supposed bad ethics when they negatively affect you, it makes the credibility of the objection suspect, since you seem motivated more by personal interest than objective ethical considerations.
Would you be pissed if Ricky Williams put up 3 points? Not saying you wouldn’t, I’m actually asking.
If you’re talking about the Roddy White trade in the big league, I did postpone the trade for the full 2 days and asked for everyone to weigh in on the issue. No one had strong objections and even you claimed not to be making an “official protest”.
I switched from league vote to commissioner approval in all my leagues this year because we almost never have objectionable trades, and even when we do, people don’t really want to mobilize against them. I think it’s the default setting because everything about the default is meant to cater to yahoo public leagues… no cut lists, relatively early trade deadline, trades getting voted on, etc. We’re not going to see that sort of abuse in our system, so as long as you have a fair commissioner, why not go to comissioner approval? And I hope I’m thought of as a fair commissioner.
This way trades can go through faster - this is especially relevant when people finally get around to trying to trade around the weekend, when they know the injury status of their players, have the most time, etc.
Really, there’s not much point in me posting and then waiting a day on most of the trades we see - they’re uncontroversial. Maybe I should just start permitting the ones that strike me as uncontroversial immediately, and only when I find one to be worth looking into should I let it sit and ask for discussion on the thread. I guess we can figure that out next year.
The way I saw your posts was that when I asked if it was permissable that if there was a surpise early deadline on trades of midnight (beginning of day) Friday if I could push negotiated trades through anyway, you thought that would be an abuse of commissioner tools. I disagree, since it’s only by a technicality on one day, and it’s due to the ambiguity of the date, but I thought that was your concern/gripe. Then when the Williams trade went through, you only typed “ugh”, which I thought meant “ugh, I don’t want to face Ricky Williams, I want to face Marion Barber or Ladell Betts instead”. I didn’t see your “11th hour” comment in the league until after I’d approved the trade - I went in, went to my teams, clicked the trade, clicked approve, then went to matchup. I thought the comment was sarcastic anyway, I didn’t think you were actually accusing me of anything. So I was pretty surprised by how strongly you felt that I clearly cheated.
I don’t think I’ve done anything unethical here. If I weren’t the commissioner and I negotiated a trade on gameday like that (and keep in mind this is an unusual circumstance - there was little time between learning that Ronnie Brown was on IR on Tuesday afternoon (?) and knowing Williams would be playing on Thursday night. I sent trade proposals quickly, but didn’t get a reply for over 24 hours, which lead to the late negotiations, which lead to a deal being made only hours before the game.
Anyway, had I not been comissioner, I would ask the commissioner if it’s cool to approve the trade because I thought it would be uncontroversial, and it was also very time sensitive. And if someone else had asked me the same thing now, as commissioner, I would approve it. So I don’t feel that I used my status as commissioner to my advantage - I would’ve asked the same had I not been commissioner, and done the same for anyone else.
I mean - you guys have known me in FF for years now, and as commissioner - do I do that sort of thing? I thought I made a lot of effort to be fair and made sure I explained everything I did thoroughly and gathered opinions.
Anyway, as I’ve said, if others in the league feel that I’ve done something unethical here, please speak up, and if you guys feel it necesary, think up some sort of punishment for me. Otherwise I hope I’ve stated my case well and I don’t have some sort of taint going forward.
If it helps clarify things, I almost never wait more than 24 hours or so, usually less, to approve a trade. There’s only one really controversial trade I can recall this year, and I let that stand for longer - but otherwise the announcements/waiting period just seems like a formality. Most trades I’m 99%+ sure are going to go without objection or often even without comment, but I don’t feel like I should just be immediately approving them, although logically maybe that’s the better route to take, since I can just use my judgement to figure which trades actually need some degree of review, and which no one would have a problem with.
I think one time people came to a trade agreement late saturday night (really late) and I approved it at around 4am eastern, and few people would’ve been awake to see that one and possibly object, but it was unremarkable and they wanted it done for the gameday so I went ahead and did it. This situation was similar.
My problems with this were pretty simple. You’re the only person, as commissioner, who has the power to push through a trade an hour before kickoff. Nobody else gets that luxury for their own trades unless you happen to be online. And you’re basically saying that trade review doesn’t matter and we aren’t going to wait for it. Now, if, as you said in your defense, you’re going to retroactively adjust the rosters to reflect all trades to the moment they were accepted then all of my concerns and complaints are moot and I’ll withdraw them. I was under the impression we were going to give people a chance to look at a trade before it goes through, and like every single other league I’ve ever been in, if your players’ games are during that review, tough shit. But what you’re essentially saying is that as soon as a trade is accepted it gets pushed through and all trade review is retroactive. That’s fine, but I’m sure you can see how this is going to look really fucked up when you don’t tell people about it beforehand. It’s also a really terrible policy in a league where only three or four people actively post to a thread and a couple members only have time to check their rosters once a week, typically on gameday or before.
But I do want to get a couple things pretty clear. You started doing this on your own and didn’t tell anyone about it before the season started, in any league in which you’re the commish. In the case of this league, we’ve done it one way for 2 or 3 years, and you changed it and it wasn’t even mentioned. Changing league rules is fine when we all discuss it, and you were great about that when it came to scoring and waivers. But you did this for your own trades in a different league first and were thus obligated to do it for everyone else’s trades, so don’t fucking accuse me of being a hypocrite about this because you assumed I wanted it done for my trades (after you did it for yours). Since it hadn’t been done in this league (that I know of), I caused a stink when I saw I was going to get completely fucked by this. I was absolutely justified in that (and no, I don’t have to raise a stink in anyone else’s defense because it’s not my job to babysit everyone else, I’m only obligated to speak up when it affects me).
I was too strong and harsh in saying it was cheating, and for that I’m sorry. Truly, I’m sorry. That all came out of hindsight when I saw I was indeed fucked and I was really angry about it.