SDMB Bigoted Asshole Omnibus Thread

[brazil84]

@Gyrate

You can conclude that much of the difference is due to genetics, but it wouldn’t be a logical conclusion.

Without exception?

Oh, and please answer my question from before:

Can “ethnic Germans” be “grouped by their genes?” Can “Ashkenazim” be “grouped by their genes?”

If so, how?

[Truman_Burbank]

As predicted, more questions, no answers.:rolleyes:

[Ramira]

And encore 84 as predicted does not respond to questions.

[brazil84]

@Der_Trihs

No.

Ok, and do you agree that one can observe average differences between my “Race 1” and the other races which differences are primarily the result of genetics?

Also, please answer my question from before:

Why is that if you want to claim that groups are genetically less intelligent, then you most certainly need the concept of a “genetic group”?

[brazil84]

@Ramira

It will generate the “questions” he believes are clever but in fact show he does not understand. 84.

That’s pretty rich coming from a guy who I caught blatantly misrepresenting my position.

[brazil84]

@Paranoid_Randroid

Brazil84 prefers to tear down “pure environmentalist” strawmen

So you concede that part of the achievement gap between blacks and whites is due to genetics?

[brazil84]

@Bryan_Ekers

Well, in that case I’ll just shamelessly steal your post and present it as my own:

Sorry, but I’m not going to engage with cmyk by proxy. If you want to discuss the issues, fine. But present your own arguments and questions – not those of cmyk.

[brazil84]

@Evil_Economist

but felt the need to post kudos to Heart of Dorkness for his/her excellent post.

I take it you agree with him when he said this?

Yes. Fine. It does not necessarily follow that the intelligence gap between blacks and whites is not substantially genetic in origin.

[brazil84]

@gamerunknown

They don’t need to. Burden of proof isn’t on the individual denying the claim, it’s on the individual making it: empirical evidence, theoretical framework.

The person who makes a claim has the burden of explaining the basis for the claim and what exactly is being claimed.

I don’t expect you to buy historical mistreatment of indigenous populations as a dispositional explanation for an achievement gap,

No . . . do you? This is a serious question. Do you believe that historical treatment leading up to the present accounts for the achievement gap?

[kidchameleon]

@brazil84

The person who makes a claim has the burden of explaining the basis for the claim and what exactly is being claimed.

So you are not claiming that there are genetically identifiable human races?

[Bryan_Ekers]

@brazil84

Sorry, but I’m not going to engage with cmyk by proxy. If you want to discuss the issues, fine. But present your own arguments and questions – not those of cmyk.

His questions are close variants of what I would have asked, so I continue to ask them. Feel free to pretend cmyk doesn’t exist and the questions are original with me, if you prefer.

[brazil84]

@kidchameleon

So you are not claiming that there are genetically identifiable human races?

It depends what you mean by “genetically identifiable.”

I don’t believe that there is a “black gene” which pretty much all blacks have and pretty much nobody else has.

I do believe that tests could be done on peoples’ DNA which would do a pretty good (but not perfect) job of sorting people into the traditional categories of Caucasoid; Mongoloid; and Negroid. (And possibly Australoid).

[brazil84]

@Bryan_Ekers

Feel free to pretend cmyk doesn’t exist and the questions are original with me, if you prefer.

I can’t really pretend that since I know it’s not so. Why don’t you do this:

If you don’t understand my position, or a phrase that I used, just quote the language in question and ask me a question about it directly. If my answer doesn’t satisfy, then try a hypothetical question – if you like.

[Ibn_Warraq]

@brazil84

I can’t really pretend that since I know it’s not so. Why don’t you do this:

If you don’t understand my position, or a phrase that I used, just quote the language in question and ask me a question about it directly. If my answer doesn’t satisfy, then try a hypothetical question – if you like.

Ok, let me try.

Here’s Bryan’s paraphrase of cmyk’s question.

Let’s gently take your definitions and repackage them back over to you; keeping it on an honest mark with the assertion of this thread and the OP; no obfuscation:

Race 1) {Negroes}

Race 2) {Orientals}

Race 3) {Caucasians}

We’ll start with just two simple, and honest questions:

1. Genetically, how should we define each of the races you insist exist? That is, by what genetic criteria is each to fall under, at the minimum?

2. Failing genetics, how is someone like myself supposed to determine, with accuracy, which race some individual should fall under?

This shouldn’t be too difficult.

[kidchameleon]

@brazil84

I do believe that tests could be done on peoples’ DNA which would do a pretty good (but not perfect) job of sorting people into the traditional categories of Caucasoid; Mongoloid; and Negroid. (And possibly Australoid).

You believe it based on…?

[Bryan_Ekers]

@brazil84

I can’t really pretend that since I know it’s not so. Why don’t you do this:

If you don’t understand my position, or a phrase that I used, just quote the language in question and ask me a question about it directly. If my answer doesn’t satisfy, then try a hypothetical question – if you like.

I’d rather just get to the basics - identifying (in the general) the racial groups, then getting specific to the genetic markers that distinguish these groups, then discussing how these genetic variations lead to the observed social variations, i.e. one group being on average more intelligent, more prone to crime/violence, more immune to disease, etc.

At the very least, it would lay the necessary foundation for later discussion. If you disagree, that’s fine.

[Heart_of_Dorkness]

@Evil_Economist

I’m only reading this thread as an excuse to avoid doing something else that I really need to do, but felt the need to post kudos to Heart of Dorkness for his/her excellent post. I came into this thread not sure what the state-of-the-art was on race and intelligence, but then I read your post, and am leaving the wiser for it (unlike some others I could name).

Well, thanks. I’m really glad you and others found my post helpful. But as I take pains to mention frequently, I really am a total layman in regard to genetics. I’ve just done a bit of reading. I make a point of saying this often, not only because I think it’s funny that brazil84 “called me out” on it, when it was literally the first thing I posted, but also so that those who don’t have any more expertise than I do are aware they should take what I say with the appropriate dose of salt, and those who do have expertise can correct, amend, or complete my statements as needed.

There’s a wealth of great information posted in this thread, by Colibri, cmyk, iiandyiiii, Great Antibob, and everyone else, a few of whom are in fact experts, I believe, and I greatly appreciate all of it. Hell of a Pit thread ya’ got here, Miz Olives.

@brazil84

I take it you agree with him when he said this?

Yes. Fine. It does not necessarily follow that the intelligence gap between blacks and whites is not substantially genetic in origin.

Oops! I think you dropped your context. Oh, yes. Here it is:

@Heart_of_Dorkness

Yes. Fine. It does not necessarily follow that the intelligence gap between blacks and whites is not substantially genetic in origin.

It’s possible that, even though “black people” are not a genetic group, even so, by some crazy coincidence, all the branches of the tree leading to groups that you’d call “black people” just happened to develop some genetic mutation, right after splitting off from everyone else, that makes them dumber than non-“black people” groups, and whenever a non-“black people” group separated from a “black people” group, they lost the mutation. Somehow. Maybe aliens did it. Or, we could say God. Whatever.

It’s roughly equally possible that if we were to take your genetic code, convert it to binary, parse that into hexadecimal, and then translate that into ASCII, it would spell out the full lyrics to “Baby Got Back”. In Farsi.

In other words:

@iiandyiiii

It’s not a concession- yes, it’s conceivable that there could be a genetic component. It’s also conceivable that it could be a massive conspiracy on the part of all white people to keep the black man down.

There’s the same amount of evidence for both possibilities- none.

And here, you’ve been repeating my statement as though it supported your ideas, when it actually refutes them quite neatly.

How embarrassing for you.

[GIGObuster]

What are you doing Heart of Dorkness? You want to be banned from Nowhere-land too?

Oh well, there is more space in the Yellow Submarine!

And our friends are all aboard
Many more of them live next door
And the band begins to play…

[Bryan_Ekers]

@Heart_of_Dorkness

It’s possible that, even though “black people” are not a genetic group, even so, by some crazy coincidence, all the branches of the tree leading to groups that you’d call “black people” just happened to develop some genetic mutation, right after splitting off from everyone else, that makes them dumber than non-“black people” groups, and whenever a non-“black people” group separated from a “black people” group, they lost the mutation. Somehow. Maybe aliens did it. Or, we could say God. Whatever.

Well, it’s conceivable that the evolutionary pressures that lead to increased melanin production interfere with, I dunno, neuron linkage or something. Thus even a white population, moved to an equatorial region, would show increasing stupidity after twenty generations or so, assuming they don’t use artificial defenses against UV exposure like sunscreen. Or hats.

[Heart_of_Dorkness]

@Bryan_Ekers

Well, it’s conceivable that the evolutionary pressures that lead to increased melanin production interfere with, I dunno, neuron linkage or something. Thus even a white population, moved to an equatorial region, would show increasing stupidity after twenty generations or so, assuming they don’t use artificial defenses against UV exposure like sunscreen. Or hats.

Oh, I am giving you such a look right now…

…although, that would explain Jersey Shore…