Yes, 100%, that would have solved this and resulted in exactly what you thought was happening, or at least close enough. (Mundi’s last pick wouldn’t necessarily be the last pick in the draft, but you would get 3.11.) And it also would comply with our future pick trading rules, meaning it’s perfectly logical for it to happen before cut downs, before the pick exists.
Yeah that would have been a perfect fix.
I mean, I’m open to saying let’s say that’s what happened and give Hamlet a free pick right now. Commish could just slot it into 7.01, no fuss no muss.
I addressed this in post #115. The brand new guy understood why it can’t work in post #116. You can’t have a system which behaves two different ways. We solved this by delineating the specific timing of exactly what happens, when. All the proposals made so far fall apart when you start stacking multiple trades, or when you place them into a draft that isn’t our exact one we have this year.
If you make the trade before cuts are finalized, and draft picks set, then what’s the problem? You had 25, you traded 2, so you now have 23 on your roster. So, when the draft comes, you get two picks. What the hell is the problem? You’re not gaming the system, you made a trade and you got the picks you’re entitled to. Thats how drafting works.
If you kept all 25, the draft order was set, then you made the trade, you would have pick 1.01 and, as I expressed earlier, you should get a pick at the end of the draft to fill your roster.
I disagree. I view what Hamlet is suggesting as a future draft pick trade that violates none of the issues you brought up.
Let’s pretend it’s June, nowhere near the draft. Hamlet trades two guys to Spiritus for 1.01 plus some scrub Spiritus plans to cut, who now Hamlet plans to cut.
We are still months away from the draft. What is improper about this trade? What problems does it create? It adheres to the balanced trade rule. When cutdown day comes, those players have already moved teams. They count as cutdowns. And also the future first round pick (Mundi’s 1.01) is finally actualized, at which point it changes hands as required to Hamlet. The only strict requirement is that Spiritus must drop at least one player to create that pick.
If this trade is a problem, all future draft pick trades are problems.
I’m confused again. When I try to figure out the draft picks created by the above hypothetical, I get confused.
Let’s see. After the trade, Spiritus wants to keep 20 and draft 5. That should mean 1.01, 1.02, 1.03, 1.04, 1.05 get created by our system.
After the trade Hamlet wants to keep 21, drafting 4. That should mean 1.11, 2.11, 3.11, 4.11.
1.01 then changes hands to Hamlet, who now has five picks to fill four slots.
Okay, I see the problem. If it’s a future draft pick, future draft picks also have to be balanced. So Hamlet would have to send at least one pick in the deal, at least according to our current rules. He would have to include his future last pick to keep it balanced ‘next’ year.
So that would mean Spiritus would get 2.01, 3.01, 4.01, 4.11, 5.01
While Hamlet would get
1.01, 1.11, 2.11, 3.11
Well that’s weird. Anyway, Justin (and presumably Hamlet) are suggesting we change the rule next year so that instead of the above, it would instead be purely need:
Spiritus needs to draft five guys, but he has to give away his first pick. This means he generates six picks, sending the first one to Hamlet: 2.01, 3.01, 4.01, 5.01, 6.01.
Hamlet needs to draft four guys, but he gets Mundi’s first pick. This means he only personally needs to generate three: 1.01, 1.11, 2.11, 3.11.
That could work and is internally consistent, but would be a rule change we need to vote on. It has the advantage of allowing imbalanced trades, reducing artificial bookkeeping. It has the disadvantage of being more advantageous the better your team is / the fewer guys you actually want to cut, so in a sense it would be mildly anti-parity.
So RNATB sent me a pre-rank list for his round 3 pick a few days ago. One of the guys on that list is still there. On one hand, it seems reasonable to assume that RNATB would still be happy to get the guy he was considering taking in the 3rd now, but on the other hand, his draft strategy may have changed after making the McKenzie pick (maybe he planned to spend his 4th round pick on a quarterback, for instance). I will say that this next pick is not the same position as McKenzie, so it’s probably not redundant. I’m not sure if drafting one of the guys he pre-ranked for last round or just skipping his pick until he makes it is the best outcome. Any opinions before we skip his pick?
If it isn’t the same position, I would say go with what is on the pre-rank list. If it was the same position, it would potentially cause a strategy problem, and I would think that list would not be valid anymore
I vote we tentatively give him his pre-rank selection that is still available. Then we proceed without delay.
I also vote that when he comes back, all subsequent picks count, but let him choose to either keep his pre-rank guy or pick some other available guy in that spot instead.
If he does pick some other available guy, we could then do the same thing for everyone who picked subsequently, in order. Overwhelmingly more likely he’ll be thrilled to get his pre-ranked guy and we’re good to go.
Yeah, I think he’d probably be pretty happy to get the guy he almost took in the 3rd, so I’ll go ahead and make his pick for him. It’s the 4th round, so whatever we do is probably not of dire consequence.
4.10 - Jaylen Warren, RB, PIT
@Spiritus_Mundi is on the clock.
In the event that RNATB gets back before Spiritus makes his pick and wants to change it, he can.
I’ve been a little sick and not sleeping well and school started back up this week and my brain is kind of tapped out, so I kind of glazed over most of the pick discussion. Are we satisfied that the draft order was executed correctly with our existing rules, that no one was incorrectly deprived of picks? And that we’re just talking about potentially adjusting the methodological for next year?
5.01 Cade Otton, TE, TB
@Jules_Andre is on the clock
I think we are discussing a rules change for next year, though there was a mention of allowing hamlet to pick immediately to recover value from 3.11. I’m fine either way but the value of that gesture diminishes with each pick. One of the remaining picks is mine - so for the record I am fine with hamlet taking a pick before I pick again
No worries. Its the way its always been done, apparently. I just wish I had understood better to insist what you had thought to do and have you throw in a to be cut player. But thats on me.
And it wont matter much. Whomever I pick would likely never make it past week 1 anyway. Picked to be dropped. Thanks though.
5.02 Tyquan Thornton, WR, NE
@PeteyPart2 is on the clock
Just for clarification, the proper fix according to our current rules would have been for you to trade the two players plus your last pick for the 1.01 overall. That would have worked fine.
And then if anyone balked, you could have just tossed in two players Spiritus was going to drop anyway so it would be a nice even three for three.
1.01 Hamlet - Breece Hall, RB, NYJ
1.02 Ellis - Kenneth Walker III, RB, Sea
1.03 Justin - Drake London, WR, Atl
1.04 Omni - Dameon Pierce, RB, Hou
1.05 Gaffer - Garrett Wilson, WR, NYJ
1.06 Jules - Jameson Williams, WR, Det
1.07 Retro - Treylon Burks, WR, Ten
1.08 Justin - James Cook, RB, Buf
1.09 Ellis - Skyy Moore, WR, KC
1.10 RNATB - Chris Olave, WR, NO
1.11 Hamlet - George Pickens, WR, Pit
1.12 Beef - Jahan Dotson, WR, Was
2.01 Mundi - Brian Robinson Jr., RB, Was
2.02 Jules - Rachaad White, RB, TB
2.03 Justin - Zamir White, RB, LV
2.04 Omni - Malik Willis, QB, Ten
2.05 Gaffer - Wan’Dale Robinson, WR, NYG
2.06 dale - David Bell, WR, Cle
2.07 Retro - Tyler Allgeier, RB, Atl
2.08 Peteys - Isaih Pacheco, RB, KC
2.09 Beef - Isaiah Spiller, RB, LAC
2.10 RNATB - Hassan Haskins, RB, Ten
2.11 Hamlet - Romeo Doubs, WR, GB
2.12 dale - Jalen Tolbert, WR, Dal
3.01 Mundi - Christian Watson, WR, GB
3.02 Ellis - Trey McBride, TE, Ari
3.03 Justin - Kenny Pickett, QB, Pit
3.04 Omni - Alec Pierce, WR, Ind
3.06 dale - Desmond Ridder, QB, Atl
3.07 Retro - Isaiah Likely, TE, Bal
3.08 Peteys - Kyle Philips, WR, Ten
3.10 RNATB - Isaiah McKenzie, WR, Buf
3.12 dale - Jerome Ford, RB, Cle
4.01 Mundi - Tyrion Davis-Price, RB, SF
4.02 Ellis - Ty Chandler, RB, Min
4.03 Justin - Greg Dulcich, TE, Den
4.04 Omni - Khalil Shakir, WR, Buf
4.06 Beef - Pierre Strong, RB, NE
4.08 Peteys - Sammy Watkins, WR, GB
4.10 RNATB - Jaylen Warren, RB, PIT
5.01 Mundi - Cade Otton, TE, TB
5.02 Jules - Tyquan Thornton, WR, NE
5.03 Peteys -
5.04 Omni -
5.06 dale -
5.10 RNATB -
6.01 Mundi -
6.04 Omni -
7.01 Hamlet -
Tyquan Thornton is a good pick here, I almost took him with my pick, but the sort of shoulder/collarbone injury he had kind of scares me off because they tend to get reinjured.
Now watch Hamlet’s 7.01 pick turns out to be the next Ryan Grant.
I would have bet money you were going to take him. I had even taken him off my list because I thought he wouldn’t last to my pick. I think I also got DJ Chark in the 5th round, with a similar 2nd round draft capital. I’ll try to actually hold on to this guy.
Peteys is traveling, so he sent me his pick.
5.03 - Danny Gray, WR, SF
@Omniscient is on the clock