Ellen is a poopy-head!
Yeah, I’m a Bengals fan too…
Isn’t that a “direct insult”? 
Packers Final Grade: B/B+
Offense: A-
You cannot really complain about the offensive production and the exceptional caretaking of the ball. However, there were noticable problem in the offensive line and too many penalties, i.e. too many negative yardage plays. However, that improved tremendously as the season went along.
Defense: B
Even though they fell apart in a couple of games (Pittsburgh and Arizona) the Green Bay defesne was the best at taking the ball away, was very good against the run, and has some young linebackers. However, they still need to learn the 3-4 better, they often would get no pressure on the quarterback (see Brett Favre and Kurt Warner) and their defensive back corps lacks depth. If Woodson hadn’t had a DPOY type of season it wouldhave exposed even more weaknesses.
Special Teams: D-
The punting was below average, the Field Goal kicking was average at best and numerous times our kick and punt coverage broke down in crucial situations. Our return game was pathetic, as well. Well, we can seemingly pul off a very good onside kick.
Coaching: B
The team was not well prepared in the early part of the season, undisciplined and lacking the simple basics in many areas. However, the coaching did make the adjustments and the team imporved markedly over the course of the season. Dom Capers 3-4 transision proved to work out very well (although it will need to improve).
I suppose it depends on whether he’s really a Bengals fan or not!
I don’t know if anyone saw Trent Dilfer on NFL Live today (I think it was NFL Live) but he discussed reffing and had a montage of missed calls. He highlighted the Rodgers facemask play but in the montage there was also an almost identical uncalled facemask on Warner early in the game. In both cases the defenders face raked downward across the front of the facemask and pulled the QBs head a short ways into his chest. In neither case was there any twisting or turning of the head.
I bring this up for a couple reasons. First, the segment reminded us that there were several “missed” calls in the game that went against both teams. That it’s incorrect to say that that call “gets made every time” since a call against the opposing QB was also neglected in the very same game by the very same officials. All season long judgment calls like these were made inconsistently. There were several games where late hits, face masks and hands to the head of Jay Cutler were not called, I know this because Jay is a demonstrative whiner and is constantly barking at the refs, often before he’s even hitting the ground, and the replay officials are forced to show it and comment on it. Most of the time there was some contact, but most of the time that contact falls within the realm of a judgment call.
The play on Rodgers is clearly a potential facemask. The hand is on his face and grasping the mask. The head is pulled down but not turned or twisted. That part makes it a tricky borderline call. That a ref might construe that as an incidental facemask is perfectly understandable. You can debate whether it’s incidental or not, but you cannot debate that the rule is intentionally open for interpretation. That’s always an important factor in these situations. A player stepping on a sideline or a ball hitting the ground is not a judgment call. Holding, pass interference and facemasks are. You need to adjust your complaining accordingly.
The hand to the face occurred after the ball was knocked loose so we can at least state that the illegal contact to the head is a nonstarter, Rodgers at that point was no longer a passer. All discussions of “protecting the QB” and the current machoness of the league is not at question in this particular play.
Anyways, I’m late to the discussion and I probably should have just let the hijack die a quiet death, but I just had to get my 2 cents in.
Regarding this, what are the rules for QB protection for when he fumbles vs. when he throws a pass? The replays look fairly clear to me that this play was a tuck-rule interception and not a fumble. Without any penalties called it makes no difference, since the ball never touched the ground, but I wonder if the QB protection rules treat the cases differently.
It’s not anything close to a “tuck rule” play. A tuck rule regards the forward motion of the ball and a ball coming out of a QBs hand while it’s moving forward to pass the ball. In other words, if the QB starts to pass a ball and while making the forward motion decides to either stop his throw or to tuck the ball away and it slips or is knocked out then it’s a incomplete pass. In this case, Rodgers was not moving the ball forward and was not trying to tuck the ball away. Rodgers clearly pumped the ball forward, stopped, moved the ball up and backwards and was reloading to pass again. The ball was not moving forward therefore it’s not a tuck rule situation.
Mine wasn’t an insult, it was a critical evaluation of a previous post, which I stand by.
I heard on the local sports talk station here that the NFL has officially come out and clarified that it was an incidental face mask – no pulling or twisting – of what used to be the 5 yard variety, but which no longer exists. Hence, no penalty.
They also said something about a non-call on the Packers for something (holding mayb?) on the same play, and that the penalties would have offset if called anyway.
Come to think of it, isn’t it illegal to kick a ball the way Rodgers did?
Penalties would have off set, but the play would not have happened and the Packers would have kept the ball. And I don’t believe it’s against the rules to accidentally have your foot touch the ball. QBs used to punt regularly.
Intentionally kicking the ball is a penalty, accidently hving the ball hit your foot as you are tackled is not a penalty.
And I actually agree with the facemask non-call. Now if we wish to discuss the blow to Rodger’s head that wasn’t called on the early play, I’m game.
The Packers would have kept the ball with the same 3rd and long situation, and Rodgers would have gotten hammered again.
Incidentally, A-Rodge’s real choke was when he had Jennings wide open, 5 yards behind the defense on 1st down and sailed what should have been a game winning TD pass 15 feet over Jenning’s head.
Favre wouldn’t have missed that pass.
Ah, knock it off. Rodgers had a good game. He had a good season.
In Dio’s Universe
3rd and 6 = 3rd and long.
Neither team has the defense to go all the way. At best, Packers would have survived to lose to the Saints.
Re: Potential Facemask penalty -
It should not have been considered a penalty, since there was no attempt by the Cardinal player to twist, turn or pull on the facemask. The guy just happened to get the facemask with one finger as he tried to take Rogers down; that penalty was eliminated as we all know.
Secondly, even if it was a borderline case of a facemask penalty, it’s hardly kosher to complain about it. As I’ve opined elsewhere, penalties happen on virtually every NFL play. Someone holds, someone interferes, someone gets a hand in the face, etc. You simply cannot call each and every penalty that occurs, not just because then no one would enjoy the game, but also because there aren’t enough eyes to watch each and every set of players on the field. The referee’s job on the play in question is very difficult: he has to determine in a split second all sorts of things, like is the ball fumbled or passed (he can’t know as he’s watching that it’s going to be picked out of the air, making the issue irrelevant), is there any holding going on in his view, is the quarterback being fouled in a penal way, etc. Even assuming the referee didn’t see the potential penalty, he’s hardly to be faulted.
Re: the issue of the “tuck” rule -
Although Rogers does indeed begin to re-raise the hand, the ball is knocked loose before this happens. It appears that the ball is knocked loose just as Rogers’ hand hits the bottom of the arc and gets stopped. Thus, had the ball hit the ground, the tuck rule would have been called into question; I’m not sure what they would have determined. All moot, of course, since it hit his foot and then bounced up in the air to be intercepted.
(Quaere: did the NFL statistician rule it a fumble or an interception? I haven’t looked at the stats yet)
Re: The Loss and the rest of it -
Even if one thinks that the hand of the defender on the quarterback’s facemask should have been called a penalty, it’s silly to assert that, just because it happened on the terminal play it was what cost the Packers the game. What cost them the game is the fact that the quarterback didn’t get rid of the ball before someone could hit him and knock the ball loose. He should have gotten rid of it, and relied upon the defense to stop the Cardinals and get the ball back. Hopefully, Rogers will learn that he can’t win the game all by himself. In short, we hope he figures out that he’s not only not named Favre, he doesn’t want to PLAY like he’s named Favre. 
As a Packer fan of long standing (going back to the Starr years, so I’m no johnny-come-lately-because-everyone-got-on-a-damn-Favre-bandwagon-in-the-90s-and-it-became-chic-to-be-a-cheesehead fan), I am sad the Packers lost. I’m mad they got outcoached (THOROUGHLY). I wish they had played the first 15 min. of the game with the same accomplished purpose they applied to the rest of the game. I wish that the Packers had somehow managed to avoid playing against a Kurt Warner On Fire team (though I’m not sure but what the Cowboys wouldn’t have man-handled them if the Packers had played the same way against them). But I’m damn sure not whining over some non-call of a debateable penalty as if that was the reason my team is out of the playoffs.
And I agree with those who assert that that sort of non-call should be the way the game is played. I’ve got no objection to that play at all as it happened, other than the fact that it ended up being a touchdown for the opponents to end the freakin’ game. :mad:
Last thought: About the “first to 4” concept - Ellis Dee, a safety shouldn’t end the game right then. But a safety, followed by a field goal on the ensuing offensive possession you’ve earned from the safety would end the game under the rule. The point to the rule is that no single scoring effort short of an actual touchdown should determine the game, and the touchdown is only acceptable because in the majority of cases, it results from having managed to march down the field all the way to the end zone. Of course, as we saw, even then the rule rewards the incredibly lucky, though one can hardly call the Cardinals unlucky to have lost the toss.
Personally, I would prefer a soccer-type of overtime: play the full 15 and see who wins it then. I think THAT would seriously change the thought process of some teams at the end of regulation. :eek:
You do realize you’re talking to Dio, don’t you? And, along those lines, I’m loving the “sports talk radio” cite. The NFL didn’t come out and say that it was an incidental face mask, so far the only thing they’ve said was that it was a judgment call left to the officials (if the official sees it). Maybe on Wednesday we’ll hear more.
I would to, if they hadn’t called Jenkins for a baloney roughing the passer earlier. Consistency is key to these judgment calls.
But they did catch Colledge’s holding (the correct call by the by) on that play, so at least they got one penalty right on that play.
And can I throw in Fitzgerald basically knocking Woodson down on one of his TD passes? That’s one I remember being shocked wasn’t called, but I haven’t heard much about it today. Maybe I missed something.
Rodgers kicked the ball intentionally.
It was KFAN in Minneapolis, flagship station of the Vikings, during the Dan Cole the Common Man show. He characterized the NFL statement as I did. Your own distinction is not different from that characterization. Of course the call on the field was made by the officials on the field. So what? How does that change the fact that the judgement was that the facemask was incidental? he pont is that the NFL has confirmed that there was no missed call.
There were no beneficial calls for the Packers, huh?
Cite?