Seeking an Insight into the Female Mind (A Dating Situation)

[Gaudere]

Sounds like trouble, Gad. She was supposed to call on Saturday and didn’t. You were supposed to get together on Sunday and didn’t. Even if she had forgotten about inviting you, your call should have gotten at least a “wtf?” call from her, assuming she got it. I am thinking either:

1. Some tragedy or obstruction got in the way (cell broke, family died)

2. She is a total space cadet and you won’t be able to rely on plans you’ve made with her

3. She is rude and disrespectful

If she’s behaving like this in the giddy woo-woo initial phase of the relationship, I’d not hold out much hope for it improving.

[sub]P.S. HI Gad![/sub]

[Sat_on_Cookie]

@Gadarene

No apologies necessary. Do you mean I’m being a wimp not to be more annoyed about it, or that I’m being a wimp because I don’t automatically see it as reason to have nothing more to do with her?

(snip)

I’m certainly wary now, of course, and I’ll press her for an explanation if and when I talk to her next.

I don’t think you should be annoyed; I think you should be dismissive if she doesn’t contact you with a REALLY good explanation.

I guess I think you’re being wimpy because you seem to be shouldering some of the load, here, when I see it squarely on her. You shouldn’t be pressing her for an explanation; any thoughts of a future w/her should include her tracking you down and offering a sincere apology and explanation. To be clear, I’m not reading anything into her motives, because it doesn’t really matter. The end result was that you had pretty firm plans, she blew you off and has not (that we know of) called you yet.

[Gadarene]

So the consensus is that someone who’d act like this in the early (giddy woo-woo ) stages of a relationship probably isn’t worth the effort, especially long-term. Yeah. Y’all are most likely right, and I’m very appreciative of the perspectives that have been offered.

Stonebow:

Sorry. I just wonder what your final ‘goal’ is with this chick. Is it to bed her? I imagine you can put up with all sorts of bad habits if you want her bad enough. But if we’re at all talking long term…a basic lack of consideration (no matter how cute she is while doing it) gets old real fast. Not being able to count on someone for trivial things is not a good indication of how they’ll perform for the big ones.

While I’m never averse to a roll in the hay with someone fun (when I’m single, of course), I’m not the type of person for whom bed is typically the desired endpoint; she seems/seemed to have decent potential as a relationship partner, based on my sense of her and how we’d gotten along up to this point. So yeah, lack of consideration is a big deal.

Arwin:

“She’s tremendously intelligent, witty, very attractive, and to all appearances genuine and sweet.”

Without wanting to sound unkind, sounds like she is not really all of these things, unless you want to stress the two words ‘attractive’ and ‘appearances’, the latter word you added because you weren’t sure about her being genuine and sweet herself.

Well, okay. And you’ve got no reason to trust my judgment of her; hell, I’m doubting it myself. But when we’re talking and when we’re hanging out she is all of those things, no qualifiers necessary. Of course, that’s a huge qualifier in itself, since it’s a potential lack of genuineness or sweetness or what have you that’s led to us not being in touch as reliably as I’d like.

I’d wait, let her make the next move, if she ever does, and if she does invite you over and she shows up, see if she apologises and look for signs for either complete mental chaos or signs that she’s dating more than one guy (either way, it may help to just ask these things). If she doesn’t show up again, I’d say you’re a lot better off looking for someone else and find someone whom you can describe without the ‘to all appearances’ qualifier.

They do exist.

Yeah, I’ve got no problem asking those things. As for being better off–sure, if she’s the type of girl who, for whatever reason, wouldn’t treat me right, then I’d rather not be with her. Of course, ideally she isn’t the type of girl who, for whatever reason, wouldn’t treat me right, if for no other reason that it’s hard enough finding someone who seems to be compatible…finding someone who actually is compatible is a whole 'nother ballgame.

Gaudere:

Sounds like trouble, Gad. She was supposed to call on Saturday and didn’t. You were supposed to get together on Sunday and didn’t. Even if she had forgotten about inviting you, your call should have gotten at least a “wtf?” call from her, assuming she got it.

That about sums it up. I still think it’s important, when evaluating the context of this thing, that she’s the one who suggested that we get together and she’s the one who offered to call (that is, she was acting rather than reacting), but I don’t know if it makes it better or worse.

P.S. Hi Gaud!

[Gadarene]

Sat on Cookies:

I don’t think you should be annoyed; I think you should be dismissive if she doesn’t contact you with a REALLY good explanation.

I guess I think you’re being wimpy because you seem to be shouldering some of the load, here, when I see it squarely on her. You shouldn’t be pressing her for an explanation; any thoughts of a future w/her should include her tracking you down and offering a sincere apology and explanation. To be clear, I’m not reading anything into her motives, because it doesn’t really matter. The end result was that you had pretty firm plans, she blew you off and has not (that we know of) called you yet.

Right. It’s just tough to let these things go, sometimes. Too easy to want to cut someone slack if you want to see them again. I guess the next step for me to master is not wanting to see them again.

(It’s one thing if the last time I see or speak to someone they’re rude to me, y’know? Or even lukewarm. But to have someone come across as interested as she did… I hate when things don’t make sense.)

[av8rmike]

I think you & Misnomer should just exchange e-mail addresses and get it over with! You & her already pointed out thinking along similar lines, so why not?

[partlycloudy]

If it were a one-time thing, I would give her the benefit of the doubt, but you say this same type of thing has happened several times? And New Years Eve? It’s like she’s asking you to make time to spend with her, but if something better comes her way, or if she doesn’t feel like following through on the plans, she’ll leave you completely in the dark, with no explanation, not answering her phone, etc…? That’s crap, man!

Here’s what this sounds like to me: She’s unsure of her feelings for you. Maybe she likes certain qualities about you, but there are things she’s not sure if she could deal with (oh, the irony). Maybe she’s not sure if she wants to be in a relationship right now? I say this 'cos I’ve acted similarly toward guys I was interested in, but at the time I had all these ties to my ex that made me uncomfortable starting a new relationship. (of course *I *would at least give them a call and let them know the plans were off) Does she seem shy/anxious? Maybe she thinks if she doesn’t pick up the phone when you call, you’ll just forget about her and make other plans. She may not realize you were really counting on those plans. Maybe she seemed 95% sure of them, but she was really only 25% sure of them, and there was a misunderstanding.

Any way you look at it, she needs to stop being a flake and be more up-front with her feelings - her feelings about you, maybe - or at least about the plans she makes with you (and I’m sure you realize all this), otherwise you’re going to be asking questions like this til one of you gets sick of it.

Hope that made sense.

Disclaimer: I could be totally wrong about everything I just said. I’m just giving my thoughts based on personal experience.

Also, please let us know when she calls! I’m curious what she has to say.

[petelin]

This is interesting. I’m often flabbergasted by how much trouble we (yes, myself very much included) often have in something that on the surface seems like it should be easy. So here’s my 2cents.

I think you should call her and find out if she had a good reason (family issues, tragedy, etc…) for blowing you off. If she did, its understandable. If she did not, I think you should let her know that what she did to you is not acceptable. It would have been acceptable to call and cancel or call and change plans or call and reschedule, but to not call at all, when she said she would, and after you called her twice, is just plain inconsiderate. And like it or not, there are people out there (I’m not suggesting she is, but she MAY be) who look for people who accept behavior like this, and end up using them. Sometimes the only way to gain respect from someone (and I don’t know where you’d like all of this to head with her, but I’m a believer that respect must be there for love grow) is to demand it. If I inadvertantly blew someone off and had no good reason for it, I’d respect them more if they said to me “I don’t appreciate that, and I don’t accept that type of behavior” than if they they said “oh, it’s ok…I understand”, even though I didn’t have a good explanation.

I forget who said it, but if you don’t address this, and continue to go out with her, since you’ve set the precedent that her blowing you off is acceptable, then it will likely happen again.

As I said, I’m not claming to know more than anyone else, but that’s the way I’d handle it. Either way, good luck.

[Girl_From_Mars]

OK, have been in a similar situation myself recently, so I will give you my view, YMMV. Was given the indication a friend was interested - also a nice, hugely intelligent good looking person, so asked him out - he agreed enthusiastically, but I didn’t hear from him again until the day of the arranged date - by which time I thought we were not actually doing anything. We then developed a pattern where we’d do something, then I’d not hear from him again for 2 weeks or more, other than some random texts. So I assumed he was not interested, other than I was hearing from mutual friends that he thought we were dating.

I gave up, and he didn’t seem to chase me - I starting dating someone else, and flash forward to New Years Eve when it was clear he was still interested.

So the analysis - I did take the view that ‘he was just not that in to me’, which is apparently not the case - have been told by friends he is acutally really awkward around girls, and has not dated in a long while - i.e., it’s not that he’s not interested.

However (and this is the key to my post) - his dating dynamic simply did not suit mine. Remember that dating is about finding someone who’s personality and temperament matches what you want. I decided I was just more high maintenance than his temperament provides for. Realistically, regardless of whether the interest is there, if I am going to spend my whole time feeling neglected, or dumped on, it’s not going to be a relationship that works for me.

I think you expect a level of contact that most people would - following up on offers, apologies if the date needs to be broken etc. I have to say, regardless of whether she likes you or not, her behaviour seems to show a lack of basic consideration - which I would not be able to handle. It’s up to you as to whether you think she’s worth overlooking this for.

And if you think she is, I think you should not be passive about it. I think next time you see her you need to point out that her breaking these dates without warning or apology is upsetting, and if she sees this going somewhere, you’d like more consideration.

If she is ditzy, this will be a wakeup call, and she can do something about it if she knows it’s bothering you. Perhaps other people have just put up with it in the past - attractive people have reps for being able to get away with this sort of thing more!!

And if not, you’ll know how she feels, and you can move on. You mention you like to be guiless and open when it comes to dating - here’s a good situation to practice that.

Good luck!

[Gadarene]

I’ve still heard nothing. Weird.

av8rmike:

I think you & Misnomer should just exchange e-mail addresses and get it over with! You & her already pointed out thinking along similar lines, so why not?

Heh. It’s a fun thought, notwithstanding Misnomer’s non-single status.

LoganDear, petelin, and Girl from Mars: Thanks for the truly thoughtful and excellent posts.

I’ll keep everyone updated. I’m e-mailing her tomorrow; we’ll see if I hear back.

[Misnomer]

@av8rmike

I think you & Misnomer should just exchange e-mail addresses and get it over with!

Wow, my very first (suggested) SDMB setup! :eek:

@Gadarene

Heh. It’s a fun thought, notwithstanding Misnomer’s non-single status.

Nicely handled.

Could you imagine the opening line? “I know you’re interested in someone else right now, and frankly so am I, but we’re both considerate and straightforward so what the heck . . .”

I’m e-mailing her tomorrow; we’ll see if I hear back.

Fingers crossed . . .

[Gadarene]

Could you imagine the opening line? “I know you’re interested in someone else right now, and frankly so am I, but we’re both considerate and straightforward so what the heck . . .”

That’s not a bad opening line, actually.

So, Tuesday night update. I e-mailed her this morning…typically good-natured, but clearly expressing a kind of “um…wha-?” sentiment. Haven’t heard back either by phone or e-mail. I won’t be trying to call her again (except maybe a little down the line to try and get back a book of mine that I lent her), and it actually looks like I won’t be hearing from her again. Truly, truly bizarre. Huh.

If this is the end, that is easily the most positive note I’ve ever left a relationship on, as far as the last time we saw each other. Literally a lingering kiss on the way out the door and a “See you Sunday.”

Makes me kinda sad, but I’ll deal.

[Gadarene]

“Call” should be “contact” in the above post, by the way, just in case anyone was going to pop in to tell me I shouldn’t be e-mailing her again either.

[Alice_The_Goon]

Well, that sucks. If I ever see her, I’ll give her the stank eye for ya.
Stupid girl. You sound like a nice guy.

[Maeglin]

Tsk. You should have just emailed me. I do miss our belles lettres.

[Gadarene]

Tsk. You should have just emailed me. I do miss our belles lettres.

You’re right, of course. Maegs, will you go out with me?

And how the hell are you? Drop me an e-mail; I don’t think I have your current addy.

[wonky]

I don’t think it’s the case with this woman, but I’d like to offer that I occasionally did idiotic stuff like this when I was depressed. The decision to call and cancel seemed impossible. Going through with a date seemed impossible. Making an excuse seemed impossible. All that seemed possible was avoidance of the whole thing.

Just my experience, to add a different perspective.

[Maeglin]

I wrote you at your, I dunno, tertiary address ages ago.

I am well, and my addy is in the 'ol profile. firstname.lastname@gmail.com. Tough to remember, I know.

As for your invitation, well, I don’t do long distance relationships. Let me know when you are back in NYC.

@Gadarene

You’re right, of course. Maegs, will you go out with me?

And how the hell are you? Drop me an e-mail; I don’t think I have your current addy.

[Misnomer]

@Gadarene

I e-mailed her this morning…typically good-natured, but clearly expressing a kind of “um…wha-?” sentiment. Haven’t heard back either by phone or e-mail. I won’t be trying to call her again (except maybe a little down the line to try and get back a book of mine that I lent her), and it actually looks like I won’t be hearing from her again. Truly, truly bizarre. Huh.

Wow, sorry to hear that. I went through something similar last month, so I understand the utter confusion you are likely feeling.

I used your quote, BTW. In response to an e-mail wherein the guy I’m interested in said that he’s looking forward to finding out whether we get along as well in person as we seem to in writing, I wrote:

This seems like as good a time as any to confess the following: one of my weaknesses when it comes to dating is an almost total lack of guile. I tend to be very straightforward about whether I’m interested in someone, and I’m not very good at playing coy or hard-to-get. I’m also somewhat inept at reading signals (the more subtle ones, definitely), so I appreciate straightforwardness in return. Some guys think that takes the “fun” out of things, but if you’re ok with not playing games – and our meeting goes well – I can try to make it up to you.

I didn’t mention you, but when this guy and I meet and click in person (as I think/hope we will), I’ll be sure to give proper credit. {grin}

[Cat_Whisperer]

Sorry it didn’t work out, Gadarene, but it doesn’t sound bizarre or confusing to me at all. You don’t have compatible personalities.

When you meet someone that you click with, it isn’t hard or confusing at all. It just works so nicely and easily that you can’t believe how easy it is. Things just seem to fall into place. My advice to you (for what it’s worth) - hold out for that. You deserve better than the way A is treating you.

[Gadarene]

Misnomer: That’s so great that you used that quote.
Oh, and I heard back. It’s…interesting. I’ll post more about it tomorrow.