Starting a relationship?

In My Humble Opinion
1

Background: I met this woman over a year ago. She was going through a divorce, so I didn’t attach too much importance to the flirtation, which was clear but not over the top. After all she was a woman who was still technically married but in the process of divorce.

A month or so later we lost touch completely. Via a weird set of circumstances, we ended up meeting for a couple beers at Thanksgiving. She told me that her Divorce is final, both legally and emotionally (they had a swan song in August and it failed big time). Emails between her and me follow and we ended up bowling yesterday, drank some beers, had some pizza.

OK, let’s not gloss over the bowling. I had a tough time. There was very little slide to the approach and I adjusted as best I could, but damn! I of course gave her gratuitous hugs when she did well; honest, I thought, ‘Let her knock them all down!’ and she did! And I told her and she believed me! (Note: the next time I hoped this, she threw a gutter ball).

She hugged me—I need a bigger word here. What is the word for ‘throws her arms around you joyfully, with seemingly complete acceptance?’

It is noteworthy that I picked up a 5-10 split. She said she was training her psychic energy on that (an echo to my comment about her strike). So_I_kissed_her. On the mouth. Not French, but there was no mistaking that I meant to kiss her in a romantic way. She didn’t seem surprised; she didn’t flinch. Pause. Then she went back to bowling.

Afterward, we had pizza and beer, very intellectual discussion. Walking her to her car afterward, we end up kissing. A lot. She slips me the tongue. It’s all good. Very good.

Driving home, I was thinking, ‘I should be on cloud nine. But I’m not. Why not?’ [pause] Because so many times, you’ve gotten your hopes up and been disappointed, probably.’ Technically, I said all of this aloud.

I emailed her when I got home, following up with links to stuff we’d discussed over pizza. I’ve hit the “check email” button a few hundred times since then. She finally got back to me a couple hours ago, whew! FWIW, a quote: I had no idea your lips were so soft and that you kissed so sweetly.

Every man has his notion of the perfect woman of course, but she’s sooo in my ball park. Petite, dark eyes, and smart? At one point Sunday, she was embarrassed about something and curled her body against mine…just, yeah. Yeah. I adore that.

I don’t know what to do. I mean, I have her number but I know she’s busy with night classes and her daughter (17 years old). Are we ‘dating’ now or is this still at a preliminary stage where calling would be premature?

Her email (replying to mine) said she wants to meet this weekend. So tell me how not to fuck this up. My proposed format for your suggestions?

**Whatever you do, make sure you…

Whatever you do, make sure you don’t…**

2

[quote=“lobotomyboy63, post:1, topic:477345”]

Whatever you do, make sure you…

Keep this weekend free

Return the email and tell her you will be loking forward to this weekend.

Call her on Wed, keep it short unless she really seems to be into chatting.

Don’t procrastinate, get all your stuff handled so you don’t have to do last minute laundry or something.

Be prepared for anything, expect nothing.

Have fun

Call a hundred times between now and then.

Show up expecting sex.

Have any plans that might interfere with the date.

3

I’ve recently met some one too and this same shit goes through my mind as well. The best solution I can come up with this is a quote I read from some one (can’t remember who) that said: “People who aren’t willing to take the risk of getting hurt, don’t deserve to be in love.” I know how flakey that sounds but hey, it’s true.

OK, now my guy advice: Don’t appear to be to eager or pushy. Women hate that shit. Take it slow and be apathetic. Don’t call her every five f’n minutes; stuff like that. For me personally, I wouldn’t discuss “relationship or exclusivity” for at least a month and a half. But that’s just me YMMV.

I know it sucks not being able to tell her how you feel right off the bat, but look at it this way; a year from now if you two are still a happy couple, you can tell her in retrospect all those crazy thoughts and feelings you had of her from day one. I’m sure then she’ll think it’s sweet. NOW, not so much.

Good luck to ya.

4

[quote=“lobotomyboy63, post:1, topic:477345”]

Whatever you do, make sure you…

Right, these two especially. I have to break the “sound barrier” with her, i.e., call.

[drachillix quoted my “Whatever you do, make sure you don’t” bit leading into this]

WRT sex, I don’t know how to make that happen at this stage, and I wouldn’t roll those dice just yet in any case. However she was quite “friendly” and maybe she’ll initiate. I hope to wait. Sure, it’s tempting but too early in the relationship it can spell early demise, you know? Did I mention I’m tempted? :frowning: She’s all that. And a bag of chips. And a large soda. And a cookie!

WRT calling, because she’s pretty busy during the week, my inclination is not to bug her and hope that comes across as “cool” or “aloof” or something. But practically speaking, I don’t think we can conduct a LTR via email. I’ll put the weirdass story of how this all started later in the post.

(underlining mine) Yeah, this is the crux of it. She seems to like me a lot; I like her a lot. Been here, done this. I really want that “year from now” part.

She lives about half an hour from me. My first thought is, ‘Man, that sucks! I wish I could call her spontaneously and we could get coffee etc.’ Then I think, ‘For me, that’s probably a good thing. It will force me to go slower.’

And now the weirdass story…

I had her number from a long time ago when she was leading a group I belonged to. Once, when the meeting place was changed, I got lost and called for directions. We never used the phone to socialize and we barely emailed…I’d completely forgotten I even had her number.

Around Thanksgiving I was carrying my cell with me regularly (I usually leave it in the car for emergencies but don’t use it otherwise). At that time, I was also having Car Toys install my new stereo, so I was shopping while they installed, had them call my cell to let me know they’d finished.

I don’t belt clip the cell; I just put it in my pants pocket. Although I can lock the keypad, I often forget to do so. Apparently the change in my pocket was pushing against the buttons, scrolled to her, and dialed (hand of God/Og?). Then it managed to hang itself up or something.

When I went to hit redial for Car Toys, I got some strange “leave a message” and figured it was some malfunction.

The next day I was driving to a Happy Hour and my phone rang. The voice said, “You called me earlier…twice?” I couldn’t figure out who it would be and my ID wasn’t working. Long story short, it was her and she didn’t recognize my number on her ID. I hadn’t seen her in over a year.

She said, “Wow, yeah, I’d love to meet you for drinks!” She said it like I suggested it; I hadn’t, but played along…of course was more than happy to meet her.

We agreed to meet on Thanksgiving afternoon. I wasn’t sure if it was a date or not so okay, I played it cool. We had some beer, shot some pool, got a burger (nothing but fast food open on Thanksgiving). We got caught up, hugged goodbye, and I wasn’t sure if that was that. We “hung out” for about five hours total.

A couple days later, she emailed me, thanking me for the good time and for teaching her how to play pool. I mentioned bowling and she bit on the idea. We were together about six hours and I think she would have stayed for more. The kissing in the parking lot? It was windy, I leaned toward her, kind of nesting her under my arm, she kissed my cheek, I turned toward her and it was ON.:smiley:

Waxing idiotic for a moment, DAYUM! She’s the proverbial “mere slip of a girl” that will tantalize me to no end. The tiptoe kiss, does it get any better? She’s a little tiger…do you know what I’m talking about, guys? This little dynamo with a swish and a sway. Words fail me. :cool: Moving on now.

Indecision, after these great kisses. We had already agreed we had other stuff we needed to do, it was time to part, etc. I would have stayed for more of THAT, certainly, but, “Leave 'em wanting more” was probably the smart move.

Overall, I kinda feel like she’s been leading the dance, which is fine (it is fine, right? Please tell me it’s fine! Someone?! Anyone?!). Maybe the trick is getting her to call me? I say this from an “investment” point of view. It’s uber great that she’s interested and motivated. But I know from my last LTR that when you do too much for someone, what was once appreciated can become expected. The more you invest in someone, the more motivated you are to work things out. There’s some switch in our brains that says, “If it’s free, it must be worthless.” Happy to do my part but afraid to do too much and shoot myself in the foot. Hmm.

5

Female here:

Put all this mental energy into coming up with something fun to do Saturday – maybe a change of pace instead of a third type of sport? – and call her tomorrow with your suggestions.

During that conversation, tell her how much you’re looking forward to seeing her.

Then give her room to live her life – and I bet spend a whole lot of time thinking about you and smiling – until Saturday.

Do laundry and clean up your place. This will a) give you something to do; b) make sure your place is looking nice if she comes over; and c) make your place nicer for yourself, even if she doesn’t come over. (Seriously, 3 is important, too.)

6

You’re just going out on a date for gods sake,have fun and act naturally.

DONT sit at home planning how many kids you’re going to have and where you’re going to live etc.

If it works out it works out.
If it doesn’t you haven’t lost the one true love of your life.
Many women are creeped out by men taking it all too seriously from day one.

7

I was going to tell you not to overthink it, but that’s kind of impossible at this stage. I will say this, about three years back, I WAS that girl: coming out of a serious relationship, primed for a rebound, horny and yet supertentative. Prep for a fling, but keep in mind that it could be The Real Thing, too.

She’ll be the one to drive the car, so to speak, because she’s the one with the most recent attachment. She might be really eager to get intimate and then decide that it scares her. It’ll be up to both of you to make it okay to communicate, even when it’s her saying she needs patience. I would see how the weekend goes.

8

Whatever you do, make sure you…

Play it cool and watch the Tao of Steve.

**Whatever you do, make sure you don’t… **

Build it up too much. Inspect what you expect, as they say.
When I met my now live in girlfriend in person for the first time (we met on the internet) she came to see me in my town. Because I wasn’t sure what she would want to do, and because it gave me something to focus on, I made up a series of three envelopes. Each envelope was a specifcally themed first date type series of events. One was the “romantic dinner” type, a nice restaurant, desert at a romantic place, then maybe some live jazz. Another was more of “a night on the town” I am originally from Milwaukee where there are more watering holes than there are members of the herd. The third was a “night in” which involved ordering delivery, writing short stories of boy meets girl, taking turns playing dj, and a disposable camera.

This approach worked for me, because she got to pick what type of night she wanted and I got to be the thoughtful, mildly creative guy.

9

Don’t tell her about the lobotomy yet.

10

Thanks for all the replies!

I was thinking that I should write a song about her. Then I realized it’s already been done:

That wiggle in the walk and giggle in the talk
Makes the world go round
There ain’t nothing in the world like a big-eyed girl
That makes me act so funny, make me spend my money
Make me feel real loose like a long necked goose
Like a girl, oh baby that’s what I like

Moving right along…

It would be fun to go to a drive-in, but it’s supposed to be cold. I know there’s a movie she’d like to see (not yet at the drive-ins), but nah, I don’t think we could sit quietly for that long in each others’ presence.

During our convo Saturday, the topic of Urban Exploration came up. In case you’re not familiar, that’s where ppl venture into abandoned, forbidden, and closed off areas to take a look around. Here’s a peek at a dying Gary, Indiana, for instance: http://www.forbidden-places.net/urban-exploration-gary-indiana-ghost-town and you can click on any picture to look inside that bldg. Cool? I think so.

She was fascinated by same and knew some ppl who had done it…and gotten arrested. Well, we don’t want to take it THAT far. But in a similar vein, if it’s not toooo freaking cold (the temp has dropped 30 degrees here in the last couple days, I think), there are some ghost towns around here. Then maybe dinner.

As an alternative, I have to give her props for shooting pool and going bowling. Maybe she’d like to pick (and I’d have to hope she doesn’t want to go dancing, which I know she enjoys a lot).

Have you been spying on me?

My intent is that the date take place on her turf. Behind it all is the chivalry thing. We may end up getting home late, and I don’t want her driving in this weather.

But you’re more right than you know about my place :smack::(:eek::wink:

Fair enough, but remember, we met a long time ago…say, August 2007. It isn’t like we just met. The mutual attraction was there from the gitgo, I think, and she suggested the drinks that got the ball rolling.

Right, I was thinking along these lines. There’s a line from an old Linda Ronstadt song: I don’t want you to hold me tight/Until you’re mine to hold. The chances of a false positive are higher than usual.

One good thing, though: when we were shooting pool she mentioned that she’d canceled a date. She didn’t do it so that she could see me, but that freed up her evening. She said that while talking to him, she realized they weren’t at the same point in their divorces, i.e. he wasn’t ready. So she may have had some dates already, burned a few batches. The way she talks gives me some hope that she’s in a healthy enough place, at least.

I’ve heard of the Tao of Steve. I’ll have to check it out.

Hmm, envelopes. On the surface, I like giving her a choice. If I can come up with multiple good ideas, maybe.

Some day (maybe not this weekend), would it be appealing to say to her, “Dress warm, casual, and leave the rest to me,” so she has no idea what we’re doing? Then I plan the whole thing. Is that “manly” and “decisive” or is it too risky? I don’t know.

Note to self: I ran out of concealer for the scar, need to get more.

Next question. I have to make something for the potluck tomorrow at school. I’ve decided to make potatoes. They have: hashbrowns, butter, onion, sour cream, cheese, soup concentrate, salt, pepper. IOW, they’re vegetarian (unless you use cream of chicken). And she’s vegetarian.

I know she lurvs potatoes, judging by her french fry consumption. Hey, I could make a bigger batch, set some aside for her, freeze them, give them to her to try. Should I? Holiday-spirited, from-my-kitchen-to-yours, or too much too soon?

Seriously, I know: my OCD can be a problem. But I’m enjoying this. I don’t date often enough and she’s terrific. It could be Friday syndrome, where the anticipation of the weekend is sweeter than the weekend itself turns out to be. But I’m giving my imagination some leash, anyway.

11

I don’t really have any advice but I do wish you good luck man.

12

Thanks for the good thoughts, Tahssa!

Updates…

I called her tonight, left a message, and she called back 5 minutes later. It sounded like she just walked in; it’s her cell, so I applaud her for not trying to drive and talk. We chatted about the work day.

I made a few suggestions. I mentioned finding a couple of ghost towns and then the drive in, and she liked the idea. I mentioned road tripping somewhere and she liked that too (she said we could stay overnight if need be :eek::D; I didn’t ask what arrangements that might imply). I mentioned looking for some city streets decorated with Christmas lights and such, since I am convinced that a week from tomorrow can’t really be Christmas and she liked that as well.

She gave me carte blanche. Said to let her know what I decide, whether she should drive here or I should drive there, what time, all that. She just wants a little notice so that she can coordinate with her daughter.

Wow. Just. Wow.

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

13

Dude, you need to chill out. I totally act the same way you do when a girl shows interest, but for most women (at least in my experience) this type of zeal is going to scare her. Of course, she has been giving you very positive feedback so far, so perhaps not.

As for sausage-slipping, she has recently come off a divorce. It sounds like you’re in like flint, but as for whether she wants a relationship or just a quick fuck-me-like-a-stranger fling, that’s still unclear.

Patience young padawan~

14

True, true. I don’t know what’s going to happen, but dayum, this is FUN! She keeps saying all the right things. Is she just telling me what I want to hear? Maybe. But did I mention how much fucking fun this is?

Trust me, I don’t show this kind of zeal outwardly. My M.O. is quite the opposite. I was telling a friend recently, “If I am talking to (or even hitting on) a beautiful woman, I never tell her that. It simply doesn’t occur to me to say it…like she might not know she’s beautiful? And why would she care that I think she’s beautiful, anyway?”

Sausage-slipping, forgive me: I want the (w)hole enchilada! :smiley: :smack::eek:

15

I was out of town, with limited internet connection, so here’s the conclusion.

The date went ok. She said she had a good time (even though many things didn’t go as planned). We kissed a lot during the date and held hands as I drove her home. When I dropped her off, I suggested we get together when I returned from my trip and she said she’d like that. She also asked me to call her before I left the next morning. Sounded good…I told her I’d probably call from the road.

Which I did, waiting till 11:00 or so to make sure she was up, but she didn’t answer. I tried back 3 hours later, left another message. She called back and we talked for about half an hour. It was pretty sterile, e.g. she needed an idea for a present for her dad. I had a bad feeling but followed her lead, didn’t bring up the topic of “us.” She too was heading out of town for awhile a couple days later. She wished me a merry Christmas in advance, which I also thought was a bad sign. If two people are into each other, they’d be in touch. I didn’t flinch.

She later decided that we shouldn’t continue. So she notified me by email. Err, not a big fan of that. Sitting down? She emailed me that Christmas Eve (I read it Christmas Day). Hey, thanks. The expression “bull in a china shop” comes to mind.

Without going into details, her concern was that something about me reminded me of her ex and others she has dated. If calm logic carried the day, I could beat the rap. “I know it’s irrational but I can’t get around it,” she said. Right, frontloading the irrational defense. And comparing me to the ex…which one is the patron saint of lost causes? So I replied, “Thank you for your honesty. Let’s talk when I get back.”

I called her a couple days ago. She said she didn’t realize the date when she sent the e-mail, apologized twice. As we talked, I touched on issues, gently. She was defensive, not budging, and I let it go.

Beyond that, my best guess was that I was more into her than she was into me. There was some revisionist history on her part that makes me think she knows she was leading me on, but I guess it could be garden variety rationalization. I didn’t call her on it.

We left it at “Let’s stay friends…and I really mean it.”

I was bummed for about three days. Now I’m disappointed but I know it would have been worse if we’d kept going. I [del]could[/del] would have really fallen for her and then the inevitable breakup would have been much worse.

Thanks for your thoughts.

16

Ah, bummer. Sorry it didn’t work out.

My thoughts? Whatever reasons she had for not wanting to pursue it – irrelevant, actually, for you – bottom line is she didn’t want to. As you say, better she pulled the plug before you got too enmeshed, which would have been infinitely more painful.

17

I thought a discussion might clarify it. I didn’t want to browbeat her until she changed her mind, I just wanted her to make an informed decision.

Few people probably would have called her—just accept it and move on, yeah. But I thought it pretty uncool, after leaving my hopes up, to drop me via email on Christmas while insinuating that I was like her ex.

So there was that whole dignity angle as well.:smack::mad::(:eek::confused:

18

That sucks, man. I had something similar happen the week before Thanksgiving - except I was too much unlike her ex, who she ended up getting back with.

The only advice I can offer is to not take it personally, take a few weeks to get a handle on your emotions, and then get back in the saddle. People go a little crazy in the first year after a divorce.

19

Man that really sucks but it sounds like you’re dealing.

Better luck will come with the New Year!

20

Mmkay, so to uplift the thread a bit…

On Christmas Eve, I hadn’t seen the email that dumped me. I texted her, wishing her a merry Christmas. I didn’t get too lovey dovey or anything.

I put down the phone and was doing something. Ten minutes later I heard the signal that I’d received a text. Wow, did she reply already?

No, it was another woman I know, wishing me happy holidays. I met her some time ago and we’ve been trying to coordinate a time to get together and shoot pool again. We were kinda frisky last time.

Yadda yadda yadda, meeting her in about an hour to do just that. It turns out that her brother is in town and will be coming along, so I don’t delude myself that it’s a “date.” But if nothing else it will be a more positive way to end the year.

FWIW: she had sent the email about two hours before I sent the text. And no, she never replied to my text.