Seems Everyone is Pissed Off

[fessie]

@hajario

What if someone started a thread saying that they were going to intentionally make themselves fat by eating crappy food and not getting any exercise and then asked for opinions?

I’d tell them it works great!

[JHWT]

Immersing yourself in the internets just tends to warp the hell out of your personality. Perhaps it’s the one click access to images and video that will wrench your heart one second, then fill it with burning rage the next, or maybe it’s the desperation and hopelessness you may feel by reading the daily news. There’s definitely something about the internet that brings the worst out of a lot of people, and I don’t think it’s a seasonal disorder.

[RedFury]

Form Justin’s link:

Bet this guy is a real babe-magnet considering what ForumBot said in the original thread about the noticeable increase in his dating schedule due to his meagerly pierced eye-brow.

:::: off to get hammer and assorted pointy things to stick through my face::::

Hugh Heffner will be but an amateur Romeo when I’m done turning my mug into a pincushion.

[eleanorigby]

@Dangerosa

I’m confused.

We get to be judgmental about people who declaw their cats, people who take their small kids to restaurants, people who drive SUVs and people who wear shoes in the house - and get to make all sorts of assumptions about their worth as human beings - that they don’t care about animals, the environment, the rest of humanity or your carpet…but we don’t get to make assumptions about piercings, sub/dom relationships and acrylic nails? We get to assume anyone who supports Bush MUST be an idiot, and anyone who believes in God MUST be in the same category, but are supposed to be completely supportive of tattoos?

I agree. I feel like this some kind of meta-thread, where we deplore (oh, that would be judging) other people’s judgments of stuff they were asked to judge. Maybe it’s a koan and I just don’t see it yet.

If the question is are acrylic nails trashy? My answer is YES-most of them are. If the question is why do some people overreact to people not bringing garbage cans and such? My answer is some people are jerks and those of us who have to clean up after them are allowed to grouse about it. If the question is what do I think about piercings or tattoos, I say I think yuck. Sure, there are tasteful ones, but like any other body adornment, they can be overdone, tacky and just plain nasty. You asked.

I don’t see this as being pissy–I see this as answering the query with my opinion which was asked for.If you wanted your position validated, you need to pose the question differently, IMO. So, I disagree with the identified cause for the OP’s pitting.

However, I do think the Dope is pissier these days. No one seems to be willing to give other posters the benefit of the doubt. I consider the Dope to be a long, often interrupted conversation, but some treat as a debate forum, others as a heavyweight fight, and still others as a no holds barred take no prisoners feeding frenzy. Those last ones seem to me to be increasing. I hope it is the weather or Bush–those things can and will change.

[joyfool]

@Brown Eyed Girl

I blame Bush.

I apologize for not having gotten around to a proper waxing lately.

[joyfool]

Hazel and Kid_A, all good points. Perhaps we need to lolcat the universe?

And to Justin again, although by now I doubt you’ll ever understand what I’m getting at, but here’s one last try. You keep saying…

@Justin_Bailey

But very few people are saying the piercee is stupid, lame, etc, etc, etc. People are saying the piercing is stupid, lame, etc, etc, etc.

And then the pierced people freaked out as more than a few of these posts are saying “How dare you judge me!” when it was an opinion thread.

…and I think that’s mischaracterizing the thread, when you have posts like; “WTF is wrong with that person’s brain?” and that they are " something pathetic and kind of sad" to just show two. That doesn’t even count all the various adjectives that have been used (IE: lame, disturbing, etc.) that are more aimed at the person rather than the act.

So, I suppose my question was how can you continue to say that’s what the pierced people are doing (Freaking out? Really?? or saying “How dare you judge me!” – huh? I thought the issue was being able to state your opinion, not being intentionally inflammatory), while being faced with those sorts of specifics. Would you like someone to say your choice in something was “pathetic and kind of sad”? Or rather they just say they personally don’t like it / find it attractive / feel it had more pertinence back in the 80s when it was relevant / whatever?

If that doesn’t help enough, then I guess we’ll just give up on the conversation together. Because after that, I got squat. Sorry.

[joyfool]

Bryan, I think you may be right. Again, why it seems so distressing to hope everyone can be respectful when they disagree is a mystery to me. Gah, if’n we’re supposed to rise to some better standard, shouldn’t we aim for that then?

And yeah, I hate embracing trend-sucking morons too. Booooo!

@Dangerosa

But you have noticed that we, as a group, can be judgmental and snarky about a wide range of topics. That everyone has an opinion and some people will defend opinions that are quite contrary. Why would you expect anything different from a thread on piercing than one about children in restaurants? You choose to pierce, I choose to bring my children to restaurants. Doesn’t define either of us as irresponsible or inconsiderate or stupid.

True, as a group this place can be like that. But I guess I do expect better of us. That’s why I personally don’t define people in those groups as irresponsible or stupid. I figure though, that with either piercing or children in restaurants, that ‘inconsiderate’ is fair game.

However, just because we can do it, doesn’t mean we should. Right? I have equally strong feelings about cat declawing as anyone, yet I purposely stay away from those sorts of threads in case I can’t be civil. Of course, for the most part, I’m in every pit thread anyway and try my damnedest not to be an ass regardless.

If you invite people to share their thoughts, you really don’t have room to complain when they share their thoughts.

Now threadshitting I’ll admit is impolite and jerkish behavior. To come into a thread about someones cute kitten and say “the only good cat is a dead cat” is being an asshole. If I post “hey, what do you guys think about cats” and someone says “the only good cat is a dead cat” - well, I asked.

Actually, I do think people have the right to be, at least, surprised when others can’t offer an opinion without it holding some sort of judgment attached. I can respectfully say that I think it’s not the most humane thing to declaw a cat, but I don’t have to call anyone, say, mentally disturbed for doing so.

I mean, certainly, if the whole point of an exchange / debate / discussion is to grow…

[joyfool]

@hajario

What if someone started a thread saying that they were going to intentionally make themselves fat by eating crappy food and not getting any exercise and then asked for opinions?

I would, if I felt compelled to answer, say that I didn’t think they really believed this to be a good idea. I’d ask them if there was an underlying reason why they were doing this. I’d politely point out things they might have missed (although at the moment I can’t imagine what that would be, but I digress) and inquire further, if possible, about support systems and their general overall well-being.

Beyond that though, I would not in any way, shape or fashion tell them that they are stupid. Mostly because I don’t believe that, but also due to the fact that, if I’m truly trying to help (and not just getting my self-righteous groove on), then it’s imperative to me to present them with my information in the most palatable way possible. I mean if I intentionally put them out, the only good that’ll come out of all that is I get to feel smug. They, on the other hand, are left in the same position as they were whenever they reached out.

< shrug >

Maybe I’m just a puss. I don’t know.

JHWT, agreed that’s distinctly possible. I’ve seen many a person point out that the behavior they have dealt against them online would never happen in real life and I tend to concur. Argh!!

And RedFury, when you’re done pounding away, make sure you take a picture and post a link. Rowr!

Finally to eleanor, I promise to get back to you in just a little. I’m in the process of eating dinner. Or at least trying to.

[Brown_Eyed_Girl]

@faithfool

I apologize for not having gotten around to a proper waxing lately.

Seriously. Your rug is blocking out the sun, fercryinoutloud. You could solve global warming all by yourself if you decide to go commando.

[eleanorigby]

@faithfool

Finally to eleanor, I promise to get back to you in just a little. I’m in the process of eating dinner. Or at least trying to.

I’m in no hurry. I’m not sure if this is ominous or not…

I’m off to write a paper on gender issues in library science. Envy me.

[Rubystreak]

faithfool, I think that a couple of things are going on:

1. People are more honest in a semi-anonymous setting. The sad/scary/honest (depending on your POV) fact is, some people really do feel disgust when they see facial piercings or tattoos or acrylic nails, but they’re too polite or inhibited to say so. Or they’re never asked-- in real life, how often would you ask a group of strangers what they think of your tatts or nails? And expect to get an honest answer? Maybe your half-senile great aunt would tell you at Thanksgiving, but no one listens to her anyway.

2. Some people are taking out their RL aggressions here. It’s easy to lash out at someone you don’t know because you had a bad day.

3. People have grudges against each other that the rest of us only sort of know about or don’t know about at all. Thus, the aggression sometimes seems out of proportion. Sometimes this comes out, sometimes it doesn’t. The Martin Hyde pit thread had several different examples of that. Boy that thread was an eye opener for me on several levels, none of them particularly positive IMO.

4. There’s a PC trend at work here. A lot of things are really outside most people’s life experience, and it squicks them out, possibly irrationally but there it is. I think about bringing up some of the topics that are discussed here to my family over Christmas dinner, and there would be no, “Oh, that’s their choice! It’s totally none of my business and I have no right to judge.” They’d say, “Oh my god, that person is disgusting.” Or “what an idiot/sicko/loser/dumbass.” And everyone would nod (even possibly me in some cases), and that would be it. I consider them pretty standard, average folks, conservative, a little provincial, basically nice, kinda judgmental. Expressing a “how dare you?” atttitude when people judge is a tad bit naive, I think.

5. Is there anything inherently wrong with judging? Don’t we all make judgments all the time? We all judge different things. You love tattoos but you hate Bush. You love submitting sexually but you hate people who declaw their cats. You don’t mind facial piercings but god help anyone who wears their shoes indoors. People don’t like it when their sacred cows are grilled well done, but will happily roast yours. We all do it. It’s part of having a critical faculty.

6. You might be a little oversensitive right now. People have always been this nasty here IME. Or alternatively…

7. It’s spring. My students are getting into fist fights. Everyone has had the flu for a month. The election. The economy. Etc. Wait it out. It’ll be summer soon.

[Spice_Weasel]

Maybe it’s all about tone, you know? Sometimes when people post things on this board I imagine them with their eyes narrowed and their faces twisted in disgust, barely able to conceal their revulsion as they respond. I imagine others judging me in much the same way I might be prone to judge myself.

But… I’ve begun to consider it doesn’t have to be like that. Imagine the words, ‘‘piercings are stupid and lame’’ with the voice on condescending disgust. Now imagine someone giggling and munching on popcorn while they express the same opinion. That person typing their opinion could mean it in a very different way than it is coming across. They’ve done studies on this… written communication, especially of the internet variety, tends to fail colossally in delivering tone and intent.

As a general rule I try to be nice even in the Pit. I don’t always succeed; sometimes I lose my shit. And those few times I do I’m glad the Pit is here to put my rage, so my ass doesn’t get banned.

[joyfool]

Here goes nothing eleanor and trust me, I only shudder at the thought of writing a paper on gender issues. Eek!

@eleanorigby

I agree. I feel like this some kind of meta-thread, where we deplore (oh, that would be judging) other people’s judgments of stuff they were asked to judge. Maybe it’s a koan and I just don’t see it yet.

I hope my frustration doesn’t spill over into my answer, so let me just say again that I don’t have a problem with people sharing their opinion. However, I do think it can be done respectfully. Why it’s necessary to actually judge in the process, I have no idea. I’d like to hope, at least in my own case, that I reserve that sort of thing for something earth-shatteringly important… like the death penalty, the right of choice, GLBT rights and the like. What someone does with their appearance (or SUV / kitties / etc.) are pretty inconsequential in the big scheme of things and therefore, don’t merit something quite so harsh.

But that’s just what I think. Obviously, I’m not necessarily in the majority.

If the question is are acrylic nails trashy? My answer is YES-most of them are. If the question is why do some people overreact to people not bringing garbage cans and such? My answer is some people are jerks and those of us who have to clean up after them are allowed to grouse about it. If the question is what do I think about piercings or tattoos, I say I think yuck. Sure, there are tasteful ones, but like any other body adornment, they can be overdone, tacky and just plain nasty. You asked.

And see, that’s a perfectly fine response overall. You stated your opinion and didn’t take it that step further to make assessments of anyone’s capabilities concerning it. For instance, you aren’t saying that someone with acrylic nails is mentally ill.

I don’t see this as being pissy–I see this as answering the query with my opinion which was asked for.If you wanted your position validated, you need to pose the question differently, IMO. So, I disagree with the identified cause for the OP’s pitting.

Well, since I’m not the one who posed the original question at all, I feel this is a moot point, but I will say that just because you wish to have respectful (and by extension, helpful) discourse, doesn’t mean that you only seek to have your position validated. I take it that what’s desired is useful information, but as I’ve said previously, I may indeed be the one who has an unrealistic goal of what to expect from discussions online. I’ll work on that.

However, I do think the Dope is pissier these days. No one seems to be willing to give other posters the benefit of the doubt. I consider the Dope to be a long, often interrupted conversation, but some treat as a debate forum, others as a heavyweight fight, and still others as a no holds barred take no prisoners feeding frenzy. Those last ones seem to me to be increasing. I hope it is the weather or Bush–those things can and will change.

True dat, on all counts.

Hopefully this well help explain better where I’m coming from. I’m not very optimistic, so I doubt it, but not beating my head against a wall to further muddy the waters has never been my strong suit. Heh.

[DistendedPendulousFrenulum]

@NinetyWt

Everybody’s been real nice to me.

[joyfool]

Hey Ruby, good to see ya. Bear with me, I’m still quite tired and probably making less sense than usual.

@Rubystreak

faithfool, I think that a couple of things are going on:

1. People are more honest in a semi-anonymous setting. The sad/scary/honest (depending on your POV) fact is, some people really do feel disgust when they see facial piercings or tattoos or acrylic nails, but they’re too polite or inhibited to say so. Or they’re never asked-- in real life, how often would you ask a group of strangers what they think of your tatts or nails? And expect to get an honest answer? Maybe your half-senile great aunt would tell you at Thanksgiving, but no one listens to her anyway.

I expect that you are completely correct here. 'Tis just one reason that I never ask my mother’s opinion on anything.

2. Some people are taking out their RL aggressions here. It’s easy to lash out at someone you don’t know because you had a bad day.

Certainly more than possible and not something I typically consider. I’ll try harder in the future to remember there might be more going on than meets the eye.

3. People have grudges against each other that the rest of us only sort of know about or don’t know about at all. Thus, the aggression sometimes seems out of proportion. Sometimes this comes out, sometimes it doesn’t. The Martin Hyde pit thread had several different examples of that. Boy that thread was an eye opener for me on several levels, none of them particularly positive IMO.

Actually (amazingly!), this one had occurred to me. Considering it seems that I’m here pretty much non-stop, I do tend to stumble upon those instances frequently and recall, at least partially, what could be going on with the subtext. You’re right though, that it isn’t pretty and it adds just one more dimension to what’s bummed me out around here of late.

4. There’s a PC trend at work here. A lot of things are really outside most people’s life experience, and it squicks them out, possibly irrationally but there it is. I think about bringing up some of the topics that are discussed here to my family over Christmas dinner, and there would be no, “Oh, that’s their choice! It’s totally none of my business and I have no right to judge.” They’d say, “Oh my god, that person is disgusting.” Or “what an idiot/sicko/loser/dumbass.” And everyone would nod (even possibly me in some cases), and that would be it. I consider them pretty standard, average folks, conservative, a little provincial, basically nice, kinda judgmental. Expressing a “how dare you?” atttitude when people judge is a tad bit naive, I think.

Again, I have no outrage of “How dare you!?”, but rather a meek “How come folks have to be so damn negatively personal about it?” But in general, I’ve definitely been called naive before…

5. Is there anything inherently wrong with judging? Don’t we all make judgments all the time? We all judge different things. You love tattoos but you hate Bush. You love submitting sexually but you hate people who declaw their cats. You don’t mind facial piercings but god help anyone who wears their shoes indoors. People don’t like it when their sacred cows are grilled well done, but will happily roast yours. We all do it. It’s part of having a critical faculty.

Personally, I think judging people harshly, without knowing as much possible information as you can, isn’t fair. See, there’s that naivety for you! But I believe just because I have an opinion (that I think Bush is a horrible president or that I shouldn’t declaw any future cats [full disclosure: the 2 I have now are, from over a decade ago] or black socks with suspenders isn’t the height of fashion), there’s no need to be anything but respectful in sharing them.

And even more so, I have no problem with others taking issue with my sacred cows. Hell, that’s why I mostly hang out in the pit. Regardless though, I still think that for us (general us) to improve as a species, decorum is the grease that helps make the world go round and not stick as badly.

Everyone else’s mileage may vary.

6. You might be a little oversensitive right now. People have always been this nasty here IME. Or alternatively…

I have concluded that I am undoubtedly oversensitive right now. That’s another thing I’m working on to change. Apparently that’s another thing that’s taking longer than we thought.

7. It’s spring. My students are getting into fist fights. Everyone has had the flu for a month. The election. The economy. Etc. Wait it out. It’ll be summer soon.

Thank Og! I hope for the other half of whatever my problem is, that you all are right on the money and soon the election will be over, the full moon past, flu season ended and the economy ready for a boon. Other than that, I refuse to inflict my commando-ness on anyone but the willing.

[joyfool]

@DistendedPendulousFrenulum

Everybody’s been real nice to me.

I’m so very glad to hear that! So let me just add then a loud “Welcome to the boards!!” Despite my current disgruntledness, I do love it here and I hope you enjoy yourself. We’re all very happy to have you.

@olivesmarch4th

Maybe it’s all about tone, you know? Sometimes when people post things on this board I imagine them with their eyes narrowed and their faces twisted in disgust, barely able to conceal their revulsion as they respond. I imagine others judging me in much the same way I might be prone to judge myself.

But… I’ve begun to consider it doesn’t have to be like that. Imagine the words, ‘‘piercings are stupid and lame’’ with the voice on condescending disgust. Now imagine someone giggling and munching on popcorn while they express the same opinion. That person typing their opinion could mean it in a very different way than it is coming across. They’ve done studies on this… written communication, especially of the internet variety, tends to fail colossally in delivering tone and intent.

As a general rule I try to be nice even in the Pit. I don’t always succeed; sometimes I lose my shit. And those few times I do I’m glad the Pit is here to put my rage, so my ass doesn’t get banned.

Excellent suggestion. Maybe it is me constantly reading into things a tone that’s probably not there. I’ll add that to my list of things to be on guard for. Thank you.

[eleanorigby]

@DistendedPendulousFrenulum

Everybody’s been real nice to me.

<slaps fist into other hand> Just wait, DPF, I’ve got my eye on YOU…

faithfool–you were never so aptly named as now, IMO (meaning I think you are being naive here). I think Rubystreak and olive are onto something. You are, afterall, judging my judgments–true, not harshly. I happen to be fairly blithe re cat declawing and the toilet paper dilemma, but hurt a kid and I’m a rabid bitch taking no prisoners. Others have other triggers. Anyhow, I agree with Ruby–people are more open and forceful in this anonymous medium.

And I also agree with olive–we are missing so much of communication here. We lack tone, facial expression, body language, gestures etc. I try very hard to “hear” posts in a neutral tone of voice. Sometimes I succeed so well, I miss jokes and double entendres etc. And sometimes I miss the other way and see RED immediately and go off. We all have.

I’d like to see discussions maintained at a more decorous level sometimes, but I think compared to most of the internet, this is a civil as it gets. A sad statement, but a true one IMO. What bothers me more is when 2 posters start a catfight in a thread and interrupt the exchange of ideas etc. Irritating, but that’s another thread.

[joyfool]

And since I’m always having a difficult time truly getting across my point, I’ll let this last post talk for me.

Does that make a better example?

[HazelNutCoffee]

@faithfool

And since I’m always having a difficult time truly getting across my point, I’ll this last post talk for me.

Does that make a better example?

Some people are just determined to be jerks. Posts like that, by certain posters, don’t even register with me anymore because that’s just what they’re like. If you let every post like that bother you this place will drive you insane.

[joyfool]

eleanor, I suppose then we’ll have to agree to disagree (on the judging part) and agree as well (that I’m ridiculously naive and that this place is better than most). As mentioned before though, I do think I need to work on ‘hearing’ people different and for not caring so much. As Hazel so very wisely points out.

Thank you all.