Would that it were that simple, believe me, that is really all I am asking for. Perhaps that point is lost by your desire to paint me as some selfish jerk, but that is all I am asking.
It is very, very, very difficult to do this in practice, because it is not uncommon for people to expect specific times. I made the OP so long to make sure I included examples like “ten minutes” and such. Note the only other option they see is something like, “You can be as irresponsible and whimsical as you wish.” Which is of course not what I wish at all. The dichotomy is what I don’t agree with because I think it is hypocritical.
For certain things, no an exact time doesn’t matter. But that is for “casual, let’s just hang out” type plans. But if someone wants to go out to dinner at a place that takes reservations, or go a movie, or is invited (and has accepted) a sit down dinner at someone’s house, then there will be an exact time and it will matter. At least to those that want to actually eat dinner or see the entire movie. And if you don’t agree with that, then you’ll have to take it up with the Restaurant and Movie Theatre empire because it’s beyond you and me.
I don’t think he is either. I do think he either just doesn’t get what the majority of us in this thread are saying, or he’s beind deliberately obtuse.
Alas, personal experience has taught me that many people who are habitually, significantly late (note those two criteria) are indeed selfish in a myriad of other ways.
Ok, the jerk line was out of place on my part, I really don’t know you, so I apologize for that, it wasn’t called for.
I think I am on your side here, or at least close to it. If a specific time is specified, it should be adhered to as much as possible. You know, barring some calamity like a car wreck or whatever. If no specific time is called for, then everyone should try to arrive in a reasonable time. i.e. ‘around seven’ =! nine, but it sure as hell covers everything from 6:45 to 7:30. No worries there. I do expect that people will honor what they say, so if you say you will be there at seven, I would expect you to be there. I’m not going to flip my shit if it is 7:02, but I’d be pissed if it was 7:15. I guess it just boils down to meaning what you say.
People who are habitually late for standing apointments, like classes that start at the same time every fucking day, fall well within the selfish and rude prick category.
You know, I was thinking about the dinner example specifically because that was a sort of common complaint. And I tried to think about it but I couldn’t grasp it. When me and mine get together for dinner, we get together far ahead of any dinner plans. I was thinking of Christmas dinner, for example. All day xmas eve family is calling to see when dinner is, and let’s say it is around 2PM. When do people start showing up? Usually around 11 or 12. Because the meeting isn’t for the dinner at such-and-such a time, it is to be with each other. They want to know about when they’ll eat so they know whether they should have a late breakfast and so on.
The movie example is not uncommon, either, and is handled the same. We meet in advance, and then go together to see the movie. Can’t be early and you can’t really be late (unless you just aren’t going to see the movie). So that’s a perspective you might find interesting, and why I find it disturbing to be called selfish about not keeping a strict schedule. Because I see that schedule as demeaning in some ways.
If you have to pencil me in, please don’t. I won’t be marginalized like that, really. If you are that busy we can see each other another time. I will understand.
Exactly! When it is beyond you and me, lateness can be a problem. It sure can. I don’t think that problem implies selfishness, of course.
Now, now!
Boy will you be surprised when he shows up at quarter to six!
No, it is not. It is naming a time around which we will meet without expectation; the flexibility of the affair is shrunk some, but not that much. In fact, the conversation intentionally mentions that I won’t mind waiting because, in fact, I won’t mind waiting. I avoid places or activities where I cannot easily “wait” by occupying myself in some way. because then it does become waiting, but why would I do that to myself?
I don’t feel piled on, Lib, and as ever appreciate your input (even if you don’t tell me exactly when you are going to post it ;)). If you worry it may become that, then perhaps it is best for another time.
I sure am! And I don’t care much when they end, either, that’s the best part!
Well, right, they’re assholes, plain and simple. Has nothing to do with me not caring so much about time.
And no need to apologize, I didn’t realize until recently that it was really such a heated topic!
Personal experience taught me that Christians are rude, inconsiderate people, too. Thankfully I met people like our fabulous Christian dopers (well, most of them) and I see that that generalization was not justifiable, and that in fact their being an asshole or inconsiderate had little to do with the religion of Christianity.
By showing up two hours early for planes, I don’t take trains but when I did (commuter rail) I missed a few, and I am about 30 minutes early for busses. That is “early” according to when they leave however, which is not a time I try to shoot for.
Airports don’t mind me waiting. Can’t imagine why.
I’m a mess in the morning, a certified navel-gazer of the first order, in fact. Every day I’m expected someplace I build in 45 minutes to trip over things, drop others, stare blind-eyed at blank walls, etc. Brain and will are gone, nobody home, so I have to compensate for it.
During the day I’m rarely without a book or crossword to “kill” time, and often amuse myself richly by just musing or people-watching. (Overheard conversations and random sights often beggar what Hollywood produces.) So I categorically reject the term “time Nazi” and hold the sense behind it in greatest contempt. The prompt aren’t immune to life’s gonzo blessings or hurdles.
There’s lateness and lateness. It all depends on promises made and track record. Running behind once in a while because of unforseen and unavoidable cirucmstances? Hey, free pass, always. Shit happens. This is a “gimme”. A crisis everytime isn’t a crisis: it’s habit.
Promise to meet people by a certain time but get sidetracked? Maybe. 1. Apologize and 2. make the reason a gift to back to those kept waiting. “I just saw the most amazing thing on the way…”, etc. If it’s mundane, “I spilled stuff right down my front and then the car wouldn’t start”, at least it’s an acknowledgment and an opening for those kept waiting to blend you back into the group.
But just casually, chronically blowing other people off if you’ve commited to be there? Bag the hypebole, it doesn’t make one evil, yadda, yadda. But, yes, the behavior is rude. It’s grossly unrealistic to expect the rest of humanity to ignore promises you don’t keep. Don’t think you can/will show up when other people have arranged to gather? Then just say so. That’s all it takes. “I may be there, but don’t count on me.” If it’s something w/ set parameters, e.g. a movie, wedding, dinner, etc. then either roust yourself to show up on time or be left out, without whining.
It really isn’t that complicated or draconian. Wanna run on your own idiocyncratic schedule? Go for it. Just suck up responsibility for your choice and don’t get pissy with others who didn’t promise to await your variable convenience.
So in other words, you are ARE able and willing to get somewhere ontime, or even early, if it is to your benefit. E.g. to be able to board your scheduled flight.
I’m not going to criticize you, but, this may be why some people have a problem with your attitude in this regard.
If you can be two hours early for planes, why can’t you at least be on time for dinner?
Eris, people have made it crystal clear that they deem habitual tardiness to be rude. Arguing with them is as futile as the folks in SC trying to convince the black people that flying the confederate flag over the state capital SHOULDN’T offend them.
Clearly it DOES offend them.
So, you can either alter your behavior OR you can develop thicker skin. In either event, we have done our part by telling you how your behavior DOES make us feel.
Ok… so let’s say that’s true, and we use the time the plane departs as our guide. Do you show up on time? :rolleyes: That’s a silly comparison, and I think you know it. When a plane leaves is not “on time” for the passenger to arrive, never has been, never will be.
Or they can work with me in the way they expect me to work with them. Why do you suppose that possibility didn’t enter your mind?
Speaking as an anal-retentive prick, I could be friends with you, eris, but we would have to find a common language to speak. It almost sounds like you and I would be speaking two different languages when talking about getting together for socialization. In my mind, 7:00 pm is 7:00 pm. In your mind, 7:00 pm does not exactly mean 7:00 pm and you don’t want it to. When first getting to know you, this would really bother me, because I would feel slighted when you were late for “dates” with me; as I got to know you better, I would adapt the way I socialize with you so that I wouldn’t feel slighted.
I don’t want to change the way I see punctuality any more than you do, but we can meet in the middle, I think, when communication is taking place and both sides have realistic expectations.
Then don’t force me to make a promise about something silly like time. Think you can work with that?
I don’t hang out with “society” or “humanity” or whatever other ridiculous standard you’d like to dream up. When we arrange to meet it is us. Work together, people. That’s consideration.
I’m sure the people you hang out with will be pleased to hear you only hang out with them because it fits into your schedule. I wonder why Hallmark never thought of that?
That is sweet. I appreciate it! There may be times when the time we meet is necessarily constrained, and for those you can bet we can name the time to meet as accurate as possible.
The thing is, erislover, sometimes an exact time is important, and if a person is “habitually, significantly late”, to steal a phrase, when the time is important, it gets irritating to deal with that person even when the timing isn’t important. If Person X has recently been 20 minutes late to a dinner at a restaurant she knew requires reservations (causing us to lose our table), half hour late to meet us to drive someplace out of state (causing us to have to deal with rush hour traffic now) and 20 minutes late to meet us to go into the city for a play (causing us to have to skip a nice dinner out beforehand and pick up fast food instead because now we have to deal with rush hour traffic in order to get to the theatre on time) and couldn’t bother to call at any of those times to let us know she’d be late, we’re going to start noticing that she’s always 15 minutes late to the more casual functions, and wonder if she’s on time to anything.
Hell, at my sister’s wedding, the best man showed up at the church 30 minutes after the wedding was supposed to start, and he was requested to show up at the groom’s house an hour before the wedding for photos, wedding video clips and riding to the church in the limo with the bride, groom and maid of honor. Are you saying that wasn’t rude and thoughtless?
If the flight is at 9AM, and because of the current bag-screening, id-checking procedures, everyone and their brother knows one should be there at 7AM, you appear to be able and willing to do so.
So if your friend invites you for dinner at 7PM, why can’t you be there, you know, at 7? You say life gets in the way, you have other things to do, etc. Don’t you have other things to do the day you’re flying? If you can make it to the airport at 7AM, why can’t you make it to Bob’s at 7PM?
If Bob thinks you’re rude for habitually showing up at 8, I’d agree with him.
Point of order: You think ‘time’ is something silly. Clearly, many, many, many people disagree with you on this. You expect people to ‘work with you’ and apparently, this means adjusting their ideas and feelings on punctuality to meet with yours. Never, ever the other way around. One-sided consideration is not consideration. It’s selfishness.
My best friend and business partner is one of the habitually late. He admits he has little concept of time, and as much as he tries to improve in this area, it just doesn’t work for him. I used to get angry when he was late for apppointment after appointment after appointment. I still do, to an extent, but at least he acknowledges it’s a problem.
