I have to agree with Glory that you aren’t helping your son much by “supporting him” with a free car and cell phone. Surely at his age, you aren’t still on the hook for child support?
We’re in a semi rural area with very limited mass transportation. No car and no cell phone = no job and no prospect of a job.
Yes. What I’m thinking is that his interest in WoW indicates that he’s either interested in fantasy scenarios or is, at least, not totally averse to them. I’d say that the chances that he’ll connect with, say, Narnia or LoTR is better than the chances that he’ll connect with, say, 1990’s political thrillers or Victorian family stories. There’s no way to really know until you try, though, so do be open to offering him other stuff as well.
SF might be another option, but there is good SF and there is really bad SF. Arthur C. Clarke or Isaac Asimov might be good for him in terms of educational value. Clarke is a really good wordsmith (especially his earlier work) and Asimov was considered a “real” scientist (PhD in Chem and researcher and lecturer) as well and had a career in academia, and can’t really be considered a two-bit hack writer.
I bet there are a few 21 yr olds in your town whose Dad doesn’t buy them a car and they still manage to get a job. But you want to make it easier for him, and I understand, but how long does he get to have a car & cellphone and be jobless? How long so far?
See, it’s great if you just have the mental will to say “It’s proper that I hold a job” and then just do it. Many people require the extra push of NEEDING a job. With his Mom supplying room, board and gaming, you don’t have a lot of leverage here besides the car and phone.
This is the right thing to do,. MMORPGs weaken people’s attention span, so I don’t think he is ready for textbooks or even Fantasy/SF books.
I would get him some intelligent but engaging single-player games with paperback tie-ins. Give him the books when he completes them and is eagar to stay in the ‘world’.
I’d recommend the following;
[ul]
[li]Crysis 2[/li][li]The Witcher/ The Witcher 2 [/li][li]Deus Ex: Human Revolution[/li][/ul]
This should help him transition to reading for pleasure, and get him ready for reading to learn.
Another option might be police. I don’t know how competitive it is out there, but you don’t need a college degree and there is some level of discipline you have to have, and much of the work is out and about rather than sitting at a desk in front of a computer, so maybe that would be good for him. Plus, he’ll have to function as part of a team that isn’t all doing the same thing.
Why not a parental ultimatum? “You are an adult. I pay for this, this, and this. Unless you enroll in classes and/or get a job, you are cut off from the money train.” And then stick to it…it’s called Tough Love for a reason. Also, do the kids have health insurance? I thought they can’t be on a parent’s policy past 18 w/o being full-time students. Mention that too.
For all you people suggesting the military or the police force, they don’t want kids like this and you know it. Do YOU want this kid defending our nation or protecting our streets? Neither is a rehabilitation program for unfocused, unambitious persons so please stop suggesting it.
Get the kid into a community college, tell him to work on basic requirements and take things that are also interesting to him. Tell him you’ll cut him off if he fails a class. Maybe he’ll end up getting a PhD in military history, maybe he’ll get just enough knowledge and ambition to go into the military, maybe he’ll find a passion for nursing, but you have to take a stand and follow through. Your ex-wife can be the enabler but I guarantee he’ll respect you more in the long run.
For HER to do something? Again, it sounds like you could have been a greater influence in his life,but for whatever reason you left the ball in Mom’s court, no time for regrets…Read Sue’s post above and do it!
She is the ONLY one who has control of his sit down access the internet. Short of breaking into her house and smashing the cable modem with a hammer (not that that’s not a fantasy) I’m not clear on how you expect me to “enforce” this. This would involve her saying “no” to him and probably dealing with a short term tantrum and long term sulking. She does not wish to engage this scenario on any level.
Re “influence” I have had my hand (and wallet) extended to my kids for as long as they have been alive. Interacting with me over the past 10 years has usually involved them getting cash or other resources from me, and then talking with me about game plans to move forward. This is not their favorite topic of conversation and I tend to get shunned if there is nothing they need.
Yes. This is correct. The people who find success in the military are super-motivated self-starters. Plenty of unmotivated, lazy, incompetent people do wind up in the military, but these people are never any different once their service is over; they’re just older.
I don’t think the kid should be reading fantasy escapist literature - not that I’m suggesting that you tell him what he can and cannot read, but if you actively give him a book to read, let it be something realistic, inspirational, and relateable to real life. Something like Walden, or Stay Hungry or Pumping Iron by Charles Gaines, or even Kitchen Confidential by Anthony Bourdain. Something that tells a story of achievement and makes it sound fun.
Actually, I think that this guy might like something like With A Single Spell or The Misenchanted Sword, both by Lawrence Watt-Evans. They are young adult fantasies, and in both books, a young man starts out with almost nothing, has some harrowing adventures, but manages to THINK his way through his difficulties, and then work to achieve his goals.
Fantasy and SF is not necessarily escapist literature, though some of it is. Escapist literature comes in all fiction, from what I can tell. And inspirational literature is almost always unrealistic and overly simplistic.
Is there any proof that fantasy/fiction could be harmful and realistic works are actively beneficial? I’ve been reading a lot about the history of censorship/libraries, people were really wary of sensationalist fiction (though back then it was those crazy Horatio Alger stories, not Tolkien, they were warning against!) so it’s interesting to see this attitude pop up in the present.
Here’s my two cents. Based on what you’ve written, I see three rays of hope. First, he acknowledges the existence of a problem. Second, he has given up the computer and apparently survived a week without it. Third, he has a job, even if it’s just for one day per week. So that’s a starting point. Now where can we go from here?
I agree with others who have said that your son’s addiction to a computer game is not the problem as much as a symptom of the a problem. Your son may have depression or social phobia and an evaluation by a psychologist might be a good idea. However, psychological disorders are really just descriptors of bad modes of thought, so the real solution must involve getting to the thoughts at the root of the problem.
Children who are raised in a proper household, while young, generally assume the identity of their parents. Then, during the teenage and college years they start breaking away and forming their own identity, which means tackling all those big questions: Who am I? What do I want out of life? What matters most do me? So I’d guess that the real problem your son has had is that he’s never, or almost never, been forced to confront these questions, and certainly hasn’t come up with the right answers.
The solution thus has to tackle that too cause. What others have mentioned in this thread, such as finding him new hobbies or prodding him towards community college, might contribute. The central part of the solution, though, has to be getting him to think seriously about the questions that a person his age should be thinking about, and then helping him reach the right answers: that meaning and self-actualization are the correct goals, and that relationships with other people are what matters most. I would suggest trying to find a youth minister who could work with him and discuss these issues directly. Also in terms of things to fill his time, try to get him involved with social activities. Anything involving sports or the outdoors would be good, especially since I imagine he’s not in good physical shape right now.
Speaking of which, one specific thing you might look at with him is Outward Bound, an organization that offers courses in outdoor leadership. They are rigorous courses but intended to be open to people with little experience, and focused on teamwork.
What the fuck kind of parents pay a grown woman’s mortgage?? What a trainwreck. In so doing, her parents are enabling her, which enables her to enable her kids. You are also enabling your kids by paying for their cars, cell phones, repairs, and insurance. You’re an enabler and don’t even realize it. Your kids will never grow up if they never have to. The situations with 50+ year old manchildren (and womanchildren, in this case) who’ve never had to provide for themselves? This is how they start.
I really think you need to get your kids out of her house. You’ve admitted you can’t control what your ex-wife allows her children to do in her own home. If you can get them to live with you, you can have a lot more control over what they do.
The only beneficial thing you (and her parents) can do for your kids, short of offering to let them live with you (which they would probably not accept because they realize that mom is their ticket to the lazy-gravy-train), is a complete withdrawal of financial support. If mom can’t afford the mortgage and their cars, she’ll either step up her game and start cutting out the bullshit (including internet), or she’ll lose her house. It’s **not **a nice thing to contemplate allowing someone else to lose their house through their own poor decision-making–but it’s a bottom-hitting wake-up call that *has *to happen if you want to effect positive change (which in this case is getting your kids to be 100% self-sufficient within the next couple years).
All three of them are total moochers, because you and her parents have allowed them to be. So, make a fair plan to stop allowing it. You have to coordinate with her parents to completely stop enabling, or they (your ex *and *both your kids) will never grow up. Make a reasonable schedule letting them know, “On x date I will stop paying for your car insurance. On y date I will stop paying for your car. On z date I will stop paying for your phone. If at any point you don’t like these changes, you can move in with me. You may use my phone when you need to make calls. You may use my car when I’m not using it, or be driven around by me when I’m available.”
There’s a high chance that they will totally resent you for doing this. But you have to do it, and you have to stick to it, or they’re going to keep depending on you–draining you. Do you still want to be supporting them when they’re 50?
I didn’t say he should read “inspirational literature” written specifically to be such; he should read non-fiction narratives that are inspiring because they make you want to go out and live life.
He didn’t know one particular word and it triggered a bunch of emotions and things for you. I still run into new words and I’m near a half century.
Keep the WOW away from him. And stay away from fantasy literature.
I’ve never raised a kid, so don’t have much to add except this; My cousin spent his entire high school years playing Everquest. I believe he sold one of his characters for a $1500 but when he figured out how long it took to get there, it was pennies on the hour. He got fired from jobs, almost didn’t graduate. He was exceptionally bright and tested well but other than that, we didn’t think he’d amount to much. Then he joined the Air Force. Now he works a high-tech job and often travels to Hawaii, Spain, England, etc. for work (and bitches about it of course ;P) and once installed whatever it is he installs at Camp David (met Condie Rice then). The military paid for all of his schooling and although he was in for six years, none of it was in any kind of combat zone (I know not everyone is that lucky). Then he spent a year doing tech work in Dubai and came home with six figures in the bank; that year I believe he didn’t do much but work and WOW in his apartment. Long story short, the military gave him focus and skills at doing a job he seems to enjoy. He still plays WoW but also plays with several cars he owns, a motorcycle, a mountain bike, etc. Lives the bachelor life with all his expensive toys :). Don’t know if that helps, but maybe using this as an example to motivate your son would help.
I disagree. I think it’s true that the military can’t create discipline, as it’s often suggested, but it can absolutely focus someone’s pre-existing if dormant ambition. This kid used to be focused and driven, to the point where he got his Eagle badge. I think the military is the exact thing he needs to give him some sense of purpose, and as soon as he gets into that environment his rusty self-motivation skills are likely to dust themselves off.
I say this as an Eagle Scout and formerly computer-addicted college dropout who joined the Air Force 10 years ago in order to “straighten my life out” and excelled in that environment. In fact, tasting adult life for the first time pretty much cured me of any desire to sit still and play video games, and I’ve hardly played since.
The only thing I caution is that it’s extremely easy to fall back into the WoW trap in the Air Force, especially in career fields he’s likely to be interested. Stay away from Comm, for example.
Astro, you have my deepest sympathies and I completely share your frustration. My situation involves a 22 y.o. stepson who has completely sat out the last four years since graduating from high school. He lives with his mother who evidently supplies all he needs. We (my husband and I) have absolutely no leverage or influence in this situation, and it tears our hearts apart. Stepson has no interest in his own life, it seems. As far as we can tell, his entire life is spent in WoW.
Yes, it’s entirely possibly there’s something organic at work, depression or something physiological, but without his mom’s participation and engagement (not to mention his own) there is nothing we can do to help the situation. I’m reading this thread with interest, and hope your son’s small initiative bears fruit. It sounds like he’s much farther along in his own rehabilitation than is my stepson. 
I’ve got a 44-year-old younger brother who is still dependent on his mother.
If you don’t cut the support now, don’t expect that it will get easier later.
I would not be paying for car insurance, etc. He’s living for free, so he can get a bicycle to a part time job long enough to buy car insurance to get a full time job.
Entitlement is rarely slowly weaned.