My relationship with my mother has always been tumultous at best. When I moved out at 16, I swore I’d have nothing to do with her again. Of course, I was 16, so that didn’t last long. We kept in vague contact over the following decade, and occasionally saw each other, but nothing too close and personal. When I turned to her for some motherly love when I was getting divorced, she kicked me in the teeth (not literally) pretty damn hard, and that was it. I broke off all contact with her, and was quite comfortable in never speaking to her again. It was much the same conversation - if she didn’t have anything to say to me other than constant degradation, insults and worse, then there was no reason for her to be in my life. She declared that it was fine by her, and we parted ways.
I didn’t even struggle with the decision - after years of dealing with her treatment of me, it had finally reached the boiling point, and I had had enough. I can honestly say I didn’t even miss her, and rarely even thought about her. She had apologized to me in the past many times before, but they were always empty, and I knew that she was only trying to alleviate her own personal guilt rather than be truly sorry for what she had done.
One day, she showed up on my doorstep. I was resolute about not letting her in, and not letting her see my children (who weren’t home at the time). She stood before me, looking for the first time as if she were truly sorry, and asked if I wouldn’t please just go out to dinner with her - no obligations, no expectations, just dinner. Seeing my mother like that, I couldn’t say no. I couldn’t break her heart the way she had broken mine so many times. Things changed a *lot *after that, to the point that I eventually even moved in with her. While we definitely had moments of… strife… overall, our relationship changed forever, and we became closer friends than I could ever have imagined. Our relationship lost a lot of the mother/daughter aspect; in some ways, I became more of the mothering one.
I am, ultimately, an extremely forgiving person, and it takes an awful lot to drive me to the point where I say “you are out of my life forever”. Reaching that point with my mother was hard, but necessary, and in the end, turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to us.
I got my mother to back off a few years ago by a written letter. I said that she was welcome to:
telephone me occasionally (in the absence of an emergency, not more than once a month),
visit seldom, in any event not to exceed more than once every couple of years,
upon the occurence of either, she was to remain pleasant, passably sober and guilt-trip free,
with violation of these terms to result in the loss of her remaining son to her, forever.
I haven’t had any problems since, other than my own rare guilt and girls who assume there’s something wrong with me because I don’t have a cheery relationship with Mom. But truly, the woman was becoming awful. I think it worked because I so clearly meant every word of the letter, and left no ambiguity.
It’s been about five years with a perfectly cordial relationship. Good luck.
I haven’t had a thing to do with my father since 1991. It all really started after my mother’s death in 1989 and finding out the the house my mother was awarded in their divorce 20 years earlier actually belonged to him. He had somehow convinced the guy that financed the house to make the contract appear my mother was the sole buyer but in fact would on be renting the house. In 1991 he called and wanted to see me and my wife, we had married about 6 month earlier. We went to his house and he gave us a beautiful 58 Chevy Impala as a wedding gift. He said he would get the title and send it to us in a week or so. Exactly 3 days later his wife called and asked me how I planned on paying for the Chevy, it was in both her’s and my father’s name and she wasn’t in the habit of giving cars away. I took the Chevy back to their house, left it in the driveway and have not been back since. My father has never called so I figure the hell with him. I even sent him a birthday car last August for his 75th birthday to let him know I was still alive, it was returned with her writing on the envelope “return to sender”. I have one sister (out of 6 children he had with my mother) that still has contact with him and she says he is turning into a bitter old man because of his wife. I have absolutely no emotional attachment to him anymore. If he died tomorrow I don’t know if I would even go to his funeral.
Caller ID is your best friend and savior, my friends.
Amen.
The corrolation to that could be * Why would I continue to hang around voluntarily with someone whom a) I have no respect for b) Who hates themself c) Fundamentally and on every possible point: Morally, Humanely, Professionally, Neighborly and Whateverly, I don’t like?*
Just because they are family does not give them permission to shit on you.
I hate to rain on this parade of abused children, but you all seem a little too self-involved for me, and it could come back to bite you.
So the OP has had a nervous breakdown, and problems of one sort or another are rampant on SDMB (mirroring the rest of society, of course). But it doesn’t seem to register here that parents (and other family members) might be fucked up too. Or that perhaps they need and deserve the same degree of compassion as everyone else. You’re not a little kid anymore, so stop putting on a big pout and deal.
My (late) mother was thoroughly messed up. She was an alcoholic and paranoid, and could be meaner than hell. But I didn’t cut off ties with her, even when there was friction. I just thought, here is person who’s a real disaster area, but she loves me in her twisted way, and I don’t feel disposed to hurt her. Having now been a parent for quite a while, and seen the ways children (mine and others’) go off the deep end, and carry it into adulthood, I could probably be more sensitive than I was. But I did fairly well.
My sister, on the other hand, cut off ties with her in her teens. Guess which one of us is still hung up on the problems with Mom.
Look, if your parent is into physical or sexual abuse or something like that, all bets are off. But if you’re just dealing with a person who has his or her own problems and hangups, and you can’t relate to them as a human being because of their role in your life, then they may not the only guilty party.
I’m not necessarily going on like this entirely for their sake. As I said (well, implied), my sister is the one still suffering for what she did. I you just turn your back on these sorts of problems, you’ll find out later that they’re still following you around.
Well told. I agree with most of this pretty strongly. There are personality traits that are negative can be “worked around” in many cases. Not all, and I’m not about to presume I know more about Faithfool’s relationship than she does, but the finality of a freeze-out doesn’t solve the issue, so it really never goes away. Out of sight doesn’t necessarily mean out of mind. I’m sure our OP will work it out one way or another. Maybe she’s just posting here to help sort it all out in her own mind.
I don’t think anyone here is suggesting that cutting ties with a parent is the easiest or even the best option. The OP asked for anecdotes from people who have broken away from their parents; that’s what she got.
Certainly, it’s a last resort. In my personal case, it was after 30 years of trying to have a relationship with a man who didn’t want to be a father. I came to the very reluctant conclusion that nothing I did would change matters. YMMV, of course, but I think there’s a point at which I’m no longer responsible to “make it work.”
Many people are under the impression that children have an obligation to their parents. Quite the opposite; it’s the parents that have an obligation to their children. It is up to me to make sure my kids are not only fed, clothed and have a roof over their head. It’s also up to me to do my best to raise productive, well adjusted kids who become productive, well adjusted adults. It isn’t their responsibility to get past my character flaws. It’s up to me to make sure the vicious cycle stops with me, and not pass it on to them. That’s the whole point. You try to do better with your kids than your parents did. And hopefully they’ll do better with theirs then you did with them.
Since I’m an only child (and boy did your recount make me feel blessed that I am!), I won’t be able to claim precedence, but at this point, I’ll just take a small measure of peace. And I realize that despite whatever decision I make (hard-line or no), that I may still have to have the occasional contact. I suppose I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it.
Now I only need a couple more of those and I’ll be set. Anybody want to fill out an application?
Yeah, I figured. Even if it ends up being the absolute best thing I could ever do, I know it’s still going to kill me. Especially when the time comes and my mother is no longer around, I’ll have that incredible talent to fall back on where I constantly bemoan the ‘good’ qualities and completely forget about the rest.
The list idea recommended by your therapist is definitely something I’m going to try out. After years and years of denying she was cupable of anything, I’ve had to come to accept that (for the most part) I hate her deeply for what she’s done. Not just to me, but to all the people she surrounds herself with.
I keep reading these anecdotes and shaking my head. Why bother with children in the first place? That’s just one of the many reasons that I don’t, and won’t ever, have any of my own. One, I have no concept of what I’d be as a parent and am totally terrified that I’d channel Shitler in any way. Two, that my kid c/would be subjected to their “grandmother.” The lady (and I use that term ironically) who’s often threatened to call CPS on folks she thought were abusing their offspring by, lessee, not potty training them fast enough, taking them to the doctor too frequently or, in some cases, because they let them go outside in the hot weather with too many clothes on. :rolleyes: Third, as I’ve stated repeatedly, if there’s any possibility that I could pass on even a fraction of my mental illness… NO WAY. Perhaps the future holds better promise of the outcome for those inflicted, but that’s not enough and I refuse to take the chance that they might not be stigmatized or languish away, only living for a ‘cure.’
Now see, that’s the kind of thing that I’ve always clung to, yet she’s never once (no matter how much supposed empathy/help/compassion she’s faked) done a tiny little bit in the way of realistic maternal behavior to prove that faith was justified.
I’m so glad that things have improved for you and eventually turned out right. But praying for that for so long, I’ve now come to accept that my mother only cares about herself and whatever damage she can happily inflict upon others along the way.
From one way too forgiving person to the kind who’s done it right, I’m awed by what y’all have accomplished. Good on you and your mom.
Those are very good guidelines and it’s heartening to know there are those out there who can stick to what they say (unlike me) and reap a positive result. If only the same could be applied here. And at this point, I’d settle for nothing more than just civil, even if that hurt me to the core moreso than what I go through now. Some half-assed decent mother would be better than the vileness that she’s been my whole life or none.
That’s awful and his wife sounds like a complete bitch. What a shame that his son means less to him than her assholish opinion. ::: shudder ::: Not to mention, your story reminds me of one I know quasi-personally where a brother has opted to cut everyone out of his life (mother, siblings, his own children by his first wife) to prevent #2 from knowing anything about his past. So, when the mother passed away (and recently, just over Christmas, a close brother-in-law – and with that this time, they didn’t bother to inform him), he was nowhere to be found. Just ignored that any of them existed, let alone something (like death) had happened. What a colossal prick.
Ah, the blessing that is modern technology that I owe everything to for having saved my butt more than one time in dealing with her. So trust me, the advantages to using whatever is at my disposal haven’t gone unused.
Nothing to add to all that except my own amen. I should always keep that in mind if I know there’s a ‘meeting,’ on the phone or in person, on the horizon. Therefore, I’ll be making a mental (heh) note to ask these very questions.
Thank you.
And I should be able to reply to the remainder and finish up in one more. Gah how I hate having multiples in a row, but that seemed infinitely preferable than banging out a book length master response. I appreciate you all being so tolerant and helpful.
Oh I agree with you, that’s why I went to a therapist.
But for me, the guy is poison. His goal in life was to make me feel like shit. I don’t know why, I only know that he hasn’t changed in 40 years. I was willing to put our childhood behind us, but he still behaves in the same fashion.
And I don’t have to be shat upon, just because it comes out of my brother’s ass.
I’ve been really surprised not to see more replies in this vein. That’s obviously been another part of any adult child trying to move on past their parent’s abuse, is feeling you’re doing the wrong thing for a variety of reasons. Like you said, one of which is the fact that they must be screwed up beyond belief too. Another is, what dear ol’ mom has throughout my lifetime, that I’m going to regret everything once she’s gone. Except picture that in all caps and with much drama. Finally, there’s the belief that’s it wrong for us to give up on them and that there’s always a possibility of change or that the fault lies with us. So, your observation is accurate on many counts.
However, I think it’s wrong to be dismissive of anyone who hasn’t suffered ‘real’ abuse because it’s not tangible to the naked eye. Emotional damage is very serious and difficult to overcome. That’s why many feel the development years or so crucial and indoctrination possibly damaging. Not to say there’s no one who never takes advantage of their childhood to blame the lack of responsibility when they are a grown-up, but that’s certainly not it in my case (as I’m sure is equally true of all that are in this thread).
Since there’s no way all/any of the members out there to know/care about all my history (wouldn’t want to bore anyone to death), I give the same consideration to those who’ve been there. A search on the things I’ve written here, if someone was so inclined, would reveal much more than what I’m rambling on (and seeking guidance) about now. However, I take every single thing I’ve ever chosen to do on my own cognizance. It’s not her fault that I’ve done certain things or that I who I am or where I’m at. Regardless, parents supposedly (I’m led to believe anyway) not in the business of letting shit roll down hill and expecting their spawn to mitigate it own their behalf. For a large part of their life, the mother and father are the ones who are meant to have the wisdom, experience and understanding for the babies they brought into this world. Just sayin’.
Which for you had turned out to be a wonderful thing. I think that’s beautiful and inspiring. Sadly, there are probably just as equally many more who’ve traversed their entire existence trying and yet it’s never gotten any better. And we’re not just talking normal friction here or the fact that I don’t think my mother loves me. Least, not in her own misguided way. But regardless, cutting off communication (if that’s what I decide) isn’t about attempting to hurt her, but for once doing something for myself in the way of achieving healthiness.
I realize that there’s no need to point out that you are two entirely different people and one’s demons are not necessarily the other. Just because your sister still flounders doesn’t mean the path you chose would be the right one for her. Perhaps she’d be in an even worse state if her goal was the same thing. Perception is a two way street.
Oh don’t worry, for years and years I thought (and believed with my whole heart) the problem was mine. That somehow if I was more forgiving, didn’t expect as much, saw her side of the story more, things would be different. Unfortunately, NOTHING is ever good enough, no matter how long term or compromised on anyone else’s behalf, to make the leap to acceptance on her part. She’s never sorry, nor done anything wrong, to even be responsible for. So to her way of thinking, what’s the problem?
And how long does one forgive, forget and overlook transgressions? Upthread I mentioned no children, so maybe that’s part of the issue where I can’t see exactly where she’s coming from. If that’s the solution though, I truly guess I’m just shit out of luck. Other than that, I wonder what else I c/should have done differently? Although there’s plenty out there that I’ve detected over my life, I’m really at a loss on how I there could have been more acceptance for her views. If I were anymore open-minded about this (to paraphrase Buffy), my brain would fall out.
Well, at almost 40, I definitely feel I’ve given this a plethora of shots. It consuming my life like nothing else and certainly not anything I’ve run from, ever. Now I’m only looking for a way to save myself, not a pat on the back for being a better person or daughter. I don’t want sympathy or acknowledgement, just an answer for what’s the best course of action available to me in the future. And it’s worth noting that, in my humble opinion, it’s not what your sibling did, but rather what your mother did. After all, she will forever be the elder in the relationship. The one who was purportedly in control and the advisor. Definitely the onus is not upon either of you to shoulder her shortcomings, which in my mother’s case, she decides to deny and refuse any accountability. If it’s not her problem, why is it solely always mine?
I also have no doubt that whichever option I picked, my decision and failings will follow me around for the rest of my life, no matter what. That’s my cross to bear as an adult, her actions are not.
But I still think you for your well thought-out insight. Just another thing for me to consider and always accept as the flip side of the coin. I think I’ve tried in the past, but I don’t want to give up on the ability in what time we have together.
Note: Apparently I can’t be brief as I still have others to address. If y’all have stayed with me so far, I thank you. If I’ve lost anyone in my verbosity, I apologize. It only feels fair though to be thorough to all who are so graciously are attempting to help. I’m praying the next will be my last for the time being. Everyone cross everything.
And that’s how I’ve come to understand it. My mother’s ambition was never to aim for well-adjustment with me, but to have someone to allay her fears and live through as her crowning achievement/mini-me syndrom. Sad, really, but I just don’t think I’m up for that anymore.
Thanks again to all who’ve come in here with great advice and anecdotes. I’m in a much better place today than yesterday.
If there’s more out there, I’d appreciate you (generally speaking) to keep them coming.
I’ve come to the conclusion that in every family, community, fellowship, workplace, there’s one soul-sucking magnet who has no tact, maturity, empathy, what have you, that makes everybody around them have to adjust their lives around that person. People have to let the soulsucker get their own way or there will be even more strife and drama to deal with.
That person has a close tie or is important to the existence of the community as well. It’s the asshole president of a company, the high-maintenance wife, the jealous husband, the obnoxious grandparent who has all the money, the list goes on and on. These people are grubby, slimy leeches. They cannot change because it’s genetic. They can’t live unless they make life miserable for all those around them.
I say to hell with all these fuckers. Don’t give them the satisfaction of having bent you to their will. Slam the door on them and don’t look back.
Nobody in my family will understand this, but I believe I had more compassion for my mother than any of them. And I am sure that I understood her better than they. Yet I finally reached a breaking point at which I severed ties with her, for a variety of reasons that are probably too personal to share.
We “reunited” when she developed cancer and my sister brought her to the house we were sharing at the time for a “visit” which ended up lasting the last 3 months of her life. I had to have the big reuniting scene with her and say a bunch of things that I didn’t mean. The irony is that years before she had told me that her biggest regret was that she lied to her mother on her mother’s deathbed when she said “I love you.” And then I was supposed to be telling the truth?
Anyway, no matter how we had dealt with my mother before and during her illness, the biggest emotion felt after her death by my siblings, my father, and many other people, was simply one of relief. I don’t think I have more regrets than my sister.
I don’t know how relevant my story is to yours. My mother was a toxic person and I just don’t believe she had my interests in her head at all. My family maintains that I was (and am) cold hearted. Her friends and relatives who only knew her side believed that I was a bad daughter and prayed for me. Maybe since you are an only child faithfool you will not have to endure as much of that, but I really struggled with what these people thought and said about me.
I know I was right and I know I did the best I could do to preserve my own life at the time. But I encountered a lot of people who said bad things to and about me and eventually I learned how to filter that out. Well, somewhat.
I didn’t grieve for my mother when she died, because I had already grieved for a relationship that never existed.
Not for nothing, but in a parent-child relationship, the parent is supposed to be the ADULT. If you’ve suffered abuse from your parents from back when before you had any control over your life, there gets to be a point where you have to do what YOU need to do to feel OK. If that means taking a break from the parent in question, you should do it and not feel obligated to deal with someone who invariably makes you feel like shit. Especially if you just had a nervous breakdown.
What works for you is fine for you. If you can still feel the love from her, then you are probably way ahead of some of the people who posted to this thread. I don’t believe that my grandmother ever loved me. I don’t think she was capable of love and I think my mother, who was no angel herself, did a great job of rising above that.
So emotional abuse isn’t on your radar? Of course it’s not “as bad” as physical or sexual abuse, but it can screw you up pretty badly. Someone trying to punch me in the face at my mother’s funeral and telling me, in front of all my family and friends, that I gave my mother cancer, and then proceeded to make my life hell until I walked away-- that person is out of my life. Maybe you’d be able to let that go, but I couldn’t. I don’t think that’s from a lack of compassion on my part. I consider it self-defense.
I feel that I have no obligation to keep people in my life who can be so cruel and deliberately hurtful. It’s a hard thing to do but it is not wrong if it will make her life better. I posted to this thread to support faithfool if she really needs to disengage from her mother. At this point, she’s allowed to be a little self-indulgent because she needs to get through a tough time and her mother makes things worse for her. My experience has convinced me that tolerating abuse from people just because you’re related to them is ridiculous and unnecessary. I’m not saying she should do anything permanent right now, but she should NOT feel guilty about doing what she needs to do.
I’d like to agree with those who say there’s no obligation or sense of failure to not tolerate horrible behavior from close family members, even parents.
My parents were at odds with each other and though individually they loved us, their constant battles, and an air of lingering resentent still hurt. One of my Moms patented routines was to go into a rant about how awful my Dad had treated her and all the awful things he did through the years, {going back a couple of decades plus. One day she started again and I stopped her and told her I was sick of hearing that and how she let the past steal away the present. I told her I loved her but I would never listen to it again. When ever she started I would just leave. Fortunatly it worked and she never played that game in my presence again. If it had gone the other way I would have kept my word. Of course we hurt when our parents or siblings are incapable of expressing love to us and we feel a tremendous sense of obligation. I think it’s a huge breakthrough when we finally say ENOUGH!! I do not have to tolerate this horrible behavior.
You can try to forgive and make attempts at reconciliation but that requires that the other person recognize what they are doing and make an attempt to change or at least control their behavior in your presence. If they can’t do that then the **right ** thing to do is what’s best for your own emotional health. Stay away from them.
And with all that you’ve described my mother perfectly. I wouldn’t go as far as saying that she’s important to the existence of the community, but is the lifeblood to those who obsess over her approval, validation and polite dismissal. Everyone else just doesn’t know her and all that she has to hide behind her public persona.
That’s what I’m aiming for, hopefully sooner rather than later.
Understood. I definitely think I’m in a position to offer you the “Been there, fuckin’ done that!” t-shirt too.
Also understood. My mother is all about the fake niceties, compassion and family love whenever it suits her. The rest of the time (like in real life), she doesn’t have the time, inclination, compassion, or stamina to really care. Which leads to me playing at something I don’t feel. If there’s nothing else I’m not, around my plethora of faults, it’s a hypocrite.
That’s pretty much how I felt when there was that brief break for a year. Don’t get me wrong, occasionally I missed the few times she could muster to hit at sincerity (because really, she could be an awesome person – with many positive traits even – if there was a desire), but overall, I just guiltily felt glad.
Again true. There isn’t much to our group, we’re rather small. But her sycophants are very loyal and anytime I’ve so much as scrunched my nose up funny, I’ve been relegated to that of a Manson clone. :rolleyes: Unfortunately, I still let that bother me sometimes, but these people have changed my opinion of them permanently and the frequency isn’t as great anymore.
See, that’s another thing I’ve never believed about myself. It’s that I didn’t try hard enough. There should have been one more chance, I should have over-looked whatever because it was me being too sensitive, or I really did suck at this human relationship thing and was taking it out on my poor, dedicated mom.
I’m right with you there on that last part. I never understood which led to my constant lament. That’s what I want to stop, with or without her in my life.
So to be completely honest in light of what Rubystreak reiterated from my earlier statement (and I apologize for being unclear), is that this started with an initial nervous breakdown way back in '96. Now I’ve had another, but the only thing that’s happened within roughly the past year or so, is another suicide attempt last April before (gah it’s hard to keep time straight when you go in and out of agoraphobic periods) and my other usual litany of issues. This time, after the most recent hospital stay around Christmas, it was just too much, even though it was mainly over such a small thing.
Thank you. That’s what I’m trying to figure out… exactly how to prevent any slide that’s my undoing my own hands because I can’t cope with her or whatever else. At least, if I ever plan on getting better (or well enough to function).
That sounds somewhat like her and my (step) dad. The present could never be lived over her intense superiority, demands and anger. We’d all been better off if they’d just divorced, but that would have been too easy and not nearly as much fun. :rolleyes:
I pray that this, if not a breakthrough, is at least a line I’ve crossed that I won’t go back on. She will never change because 1.) she’s hasn’t done anything wrong and 2.) nor does she want to. So why should she humor me, the minority? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I really want to thank everyone for your kindness. This has helped tremendously. Whenever I get bogged down in believing I should stick it out, again, I’ll re-read this. Perhaps it’ll get through my thick skull that sometimes it’s not always me as the culprit, despite her protestation to the contrary.
Last time I spoke to the asshole whose sperm went into my creation was 1990.
I didn’t make the conscious decision to end the relationship at the time of the last interaction. It was just another in a long line of selfish, stupid actions, and I was mulling how I should respond. Days went by. Then weeks.
Then, finally, I thought: You know, what’s the point?
At that moment, it was like I grew wings.
I have no intention of ever having anything to do with him again.
It’s not the right choice for everybody. But I think you know best whether or not it’s the right choice for you. You just have to stick to it. What kelly5078 said about letting your problems follow you around is an excellent point; if you cut off contact with someone, but you continue to obsess about them, and if you spend time hoping that the lack of contact is having some sort of effect on them, then you haven’t accomplished anything at all: the other person is still controlling you.
If you cut somebody off, cut them OFF. You’re doing it to get them out of your life, so do that. Don’t waste a single calorie of energy thinking about them.
I don’t think about my father except on the rare occasions it comes up in conversation or elsewhere (like this thread). My stepfather, my mother’s second husband, is more a father than the man who fertilized my mother.
Wow Cervaise that’s at once saddening and heartening. Trust me, I am taking all this new knowledge and storing it up for review whenever/if my mother contacts me directly. And you are right that if it comes down to that, if should be total and final.
As a pending updated, I have heard from her via snail mail (she won’t hardly use the internet because it’s eeeeeeeeeevil). I’ve emailed a forum moderator to ask exactly what I can and can’t reprint, if a card can be considered copyrighted material. I’ll post whatever amount as soon as I hear back.
Thanks again to everyone for the advice and support, both here and by private messages sent. I do appreciate it all.
And I realize that despite whatever decision I make (hard-line or no), that I may still have to have the occasional contact. I suppose I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it.
