Yeah… I think you’re right, given the overall tone of his posts about the situation, I think it’s a pretty good bet he’s already admitted to Winston that they did it, and now in DiosaBellissima’s words he’s infatuated with her “young, tight vagina”.
I had a problem when Maastricht said it, and I have a problem with you saying this.
If a person is damaged, it does not mean it is okay to damage them further.
She is a real person, not a blow up doll. She has feelings. She can be hurt.
A married woman I’ll call Sue (not real name) who was my very best friend for 15 years told me that she was having an affair with a “boy toy” (her words), a 14-year old child. She told me her husband Vic didn’t mind. She told me he was cool with it, he knew that such an affair didn’t threaten their marriage. I was appalled and told her what I thought of the abuse. She laughed, saying it wasn’t abuse, that he enjoyed it too and was learning a lot from her.
I cut off all contact from her after telling her that I thought what she was doing was child abuse and that I didn’t want to see her anymore. I don’t know what else I could have done. I didn’t know the boy in question, so I couldn’t report it. Part of me wondered if she were just kidding about the whole thing. About 3 years later, I got a call from her inviting me for supper. I asked if she was still seeing the boy, she said that she wasn’t. So I went over for supper with her and her husband and we never mentioned a thing about the gap in our relationship. After the meal, we all went out on the front porch for a bit. Sue went inside for some reason, and I asked him how they were doing. He said they were fine, except for a rough spot a few years back. I said I knew about it and asked him if he had suffered, his reply was a simple “Yes.”
I was relieved that my friend had seen her way out of the situation, but we were by no means reconciled. She told me later that the boy had told her that he had trouble getting along with the girls he met. I asked her if she felt guilty about that. She seemed puzzled at my question, she had understood from his problems that he had found it impossible to find a girl as good as her, that she had spoiled him for other girls. I broke off contact with her again. I hope their marriage is good again because I really like her husband Vic.
BTW, she had been my matron of honour.
I think you should at the very least walk away from this whole situation, after telling him that you can’t condone it. People can appear to be good, perhaps your friend was good, but people can also change. He’s finding too many excuses for himself.
Okay, first, holy shit, what a fucked-up situation.
Second, Shodan boils it down nicely; thanks!
Third, Winston, I’m wondering if the quoted bit is a card you can play. Along the lines of, “Dude, we’ve never really had a fight, have we? We’ve been friends forever, haven’t we? We tell each other everything, don’t we? I’m saying this because I want you to understand what I’m doing: I’m playing my biggest and only card here. Your friendship is so important, but what you’re doing is bigger than that, and as important as you are to me, I can’t be around for something as awful as what you’re doing. It’s so awful that I’m willing to lose you as a friend over it, if there’s even a chance that in doing so I’ll help you see what’s going on. Seriously, man, let’s talk.”
I don’t know. I have no experience with this kind of thing.
You are comparing a relationship with a 14 year old to one with a 20 year old though. And not to sound sexist the boy/girl difference matters too, that poor kids life is going to be all down hill after having peaked at 14.
FFS, why won’t they help that poor girl? OK, so her mom is a lost cause, but that doesn’t mean her daughter has to go down the same path. How can he just sit by and watch it happen? Doesn’t he feel anything for her as a fellow human being? He should get her into counseling, perform some sort of intervention, something! She needs to get off the drugs and booze. Get an education or some sort of job – might be hard now, but at least something to keep her busy and on track at least. Some sort of day to day responsibility, even if it doesn’t pay. Save her from becoming her mom.
And then he can get his dick wet and fuck her silly. You know, as a reward for being such a caring person. Besides, at his age he should know screwing a reciprocal, clear headed woman is a lot more satisfying than a girl who just lays there, blazed out of her mind.
/ticket please
I, myself, am 20 years old (almost 21). This is an extremely messy situation. I’m sure it is hard to live miles and miles away from his girlfriend. Guys get lonely and the only girl around is this 20-year-old girl who sounds extremely unstable. When I was in high school, I had an older guy hit on me and I didn’t know how to take it. Even at 20, you still don’t know everything about relationships. He needs to back away from this situation. If he doesn’t know how he feels about his relationship with the woman, he needs to leave. But he DEFINITELY doesn’t need to get into anything with this 20 year old. She’s way too young and vulnerable and MENTALLY UNSTABLE. He needs a healthy relationship. I think he is just lonely. Talk him out of it. If she calls the cops, it’s her word against his. Girls (especially young ones) have a way of getting the better end of the deal on rape charges.
I did not personally attack you. I said that I think you look terrible by association for not taking a stronger stand against something you obviously think is abhorrent. If anything, your reaction to my comment appears awfully defensive.
I don’t care if the guy is an aquaintance, a life-long friend or your brother. Anyone that thinks about banging a girl he was essentially a step-father to deserves to be shunned. I still think you’re wrong by trying to talk him out of it. He needs a good friend to say, “You’re an idiot. I cannot associate with you if you’re going to do something so stupid. Don’t talk to me about this. Leave me the hell out of it.”
And, like I said before, I think you’re implicitly condoning it by continuing to let him discuss it with you.
It should also be noted that the full progression is as follows[ol][li]Get a call from friend about needing help with a dead hooker[]Gather shovel, rug, and plastic gloves and bags[]Arrive at no-tell motel[]Verify hooker is in fact dead[]Kick the shit out of your friend for getting into this messBag and bury the hooker[/ol]Most people forget item number 5. It’s a very important part of the process. It ensures you don’t have to keep buying new rugs, because rug shopping is exhausting.[/li]
Enjoy,
Steven
I’ve been thinking about this remark of yours. And about olive’s recent post in the other thread about the stigma surrounding personality disorders, where she said:
I would have liked to rephrase that, "She sounds like a tekstbook borderline, so her behavior probably isn’t constructive. And if we look at the situation at hand, she has more to gain and less to lose (in a messed up way) with her stepdad’s infatuation with her then the other way around. But Olives has a point, indeed I think that the stepdaughter should and could behave in such a way to dissolve the situation (as should and could the stepdad, even more so because he is the one with the problem). And that she isn’t behaving in such a responsible and constructive way now. And that I feel her behaving like that is quite likely a symptom of borderline PD.
Now, let’s move away from the stepdaughter in Winstons thread, (as should her stepdad :)) and discuss a more general question. Does emotional harm (selfishness, abuse, retaliation, abandonment, etc) feel worse for someone with borderline then a “normal” person, or do they feel it less, as they often get/invoke so much of it?
I don’t know, but I’m willing to form an educated opinion on the subject.
From my reasonably uneducated outsiders perspective, I would think that early abuse (say in their teens or younger) would be even more devastating for someone suffering from borderline. They are emotionally much less equipped to cope, and far more likely to take the shame and hurt and agression out on themselves.
On the other hand, by the time a girl with borderline is in her twenties, she will have gone through so many cycles of destroyed relationships that, crude as that may sound, I think she may simply be used to the drama and heartbreak in love or friendship or mentorship. It can’t be as devastating the fifth or tenth time as it was the first time, can it? From Winstons description, this girl has had several wild sexual relationships at a young age, which she wasn’t shy in discussing in (sexual) detail, without much heartbreak showing. She seemed of the opinion that the best remedy is to find a quick replacement, and most borderliners do, in fact, jump from one relationship to the next. The “normal” mourning of such relationships isn’t visible much; I don’t know what shape if any, it takes with the BPD-er herself.
Thoughts, anyone?
I also think that stepping into a dysfunctional situation like this is likely to have unfortunate consequenses where you end up being the bad guy to all parties concerned. I think you’ve done what you can counseling your friend and you may need to just walk away.
Thoughts? Well, this doesn’t sound like such a far cry from people who think rape victims who aren’t virgins can’t be that traumatized, and sex workers are ‘unrapeable’…
It isn’t up to him to decide how much or little his actions will harm her, compared to other men or boys she’s been with – because something tells me he will err on whichever side lets him get his dick wet.
I don’t think it is up to us to presume how much his actions (and we are talking seducing here, not rape) will harm her, either. Most posters saw no harm in pre-emptively accusing this man of pure incest to a minor girl; I said the harm done to the girl could be less than that, perhaps even less then the harm done to the man.
Don’t take me wrong, I still said that it is an all around disastrous situation and both the man and the girl should extract themselves from it. However, I saw no benefit in calling the man a sick fuck and Winston his associate by omission. First of all because that would be inaccurate, and second because it would not be helpful.
[quote=“Maastricht, post:213, topic:549004”]
O, for crying out loud, what had my question to do with rape?
And ftr, I don’t think it is up to us to presume how much his actions (and we are talking seducing here, not rape) will harm her, either. That was what my last question was about, to form an opinion.
Don’t take me wrong, I still said that it is an all around disastrous situation and both the man and the girl should extract themselves from it. However, I saw no benefit in calling the man a sick fuck and Winston his associate by omission. First of all because that would be inaccurate, and second because it would not be helpful.
You don’t have to be a ‘sick fuck’ to be a complete asshole. When some people see someone who’s clearly broken, they stay away so they don’t have to deal with it (fair) or try to help (good, but not always possible). It takes a very special person to take steps to make it worse.